Crossover: please define

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 27 Jul 2007 12:39 pm

Lately I've seen the term 'crossover' show up in a bunch of posts. Probably because I've been reading more threads on vintage PSGs. Despite a few searches on here and Google, I have not figured out exactly what this term refers to in the context of PSG. Can someone please enlighten me? Thanks.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 27 Jul 2007 12:48 pm

Great idea. With a two neck guitar, instead of having a zillion pedals from extreme left to extreme right of the pedalboard to accommodate a dedicated set of pedals for E9 and a separate set of C6 pedals, you have one set of pedals in the 'standard' position and a lever that assigns these pedals either to the E9 neck or to the C6 neck. In other words one set of pedals does double duty with a selector switch determining which neck is active.
From everything I've read, the old Sho-Bud crossover was a great idea, not so well executed. And the Williams seems like a great update of the idea, done right.

edited-----in response to b0b's post below, I have italicized a line that b0b has pointed out is inaccurate. Thanks for the clarification that the Williams is not an update of the Sho-Bud mechanism but rather a new approach to the crossover concept.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 27 Jul 2007 1:04 pm

Me thinks that's what the pushbuttons on Bobbe's (1960, greater than $30K) Bixby were doin'...

Will Holtz · Post by **Will Holtz** » 27 Jul 2007 1:18 pm

Thanks Jon! That clears up a lot for me.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 27 Jul 2007 3:58 pm

Since you're in San Francisco. you might want to contact b0b who is not too far from there. he as a Williams D-12 crossover. I'm sure he'd be willing to let you look at it.

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 28 Jul 2007 6:01 am

Will,
If you take a look at Allen Brookes avatar on this thread you will notice that he is setting behind a Sho-Bud crossover.
I think he is in the same town that you are.

They wont let me put in my words what I have to say about the old Sho-Bud crossovers on the forum.
I had to live with one for about a year and a half.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 28 Jul 2007 7:44 am

It's worth noting here that there have been two major crossover pedal steel designs. The first was made by Sho-Bud about 40 years ago. It worked, but not very well.

The second is the Williams crossover that Bill Rudolph invented, at my urging, in 2001. Bill's patented mechanical design is totally unrelated to the Sho-Bud design. It works very well.

Bill's design can handle a two full modern copedents, as is evident from my copedent chart:

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Try doing that with a Sho-Bud!

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 28 Jul 2007 7:52 am

I have edited my post above to reflect your post, b0b. Thanks for the clarification about the Williams not being and 'update' of the 'Bud mechanics but, rather, being a new engineering approach.

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 28 Jul 2007 7:56 am

Same thing Jon said.
Thats why I call it Sho-Bud crossover.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 28 Jul 2007 8:51 am

I've examined Bill Rudolph's crossover mechanism close up. It's not only brilliantly designed and engineered, it's also very pretty to look at and watch in operation!

Bill does something that a some of our current steel builders are alos doing, and that's to make something functional that's also esthetically pleasing as well.

Bill's undercarriage parts on the guitar I examined last year are alternatly satin finish aluminum and black anodized, so there's movement and color happening simulaneously. Like black anodized bellcranks on polished aluminum crossbars. Very charming to watch, indeed.

I'm turned on by weird stuff like that. Gotta go to my gig now, later guys.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Jul 2007 9:26 am

Note the lever on the bottom right, outside the body.

All pedals & one lever work both necks, switchable with X-Over lever, all knee levers work E9th neck

This one is currently for sale at "Steel Guitars of Canada".

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 28 Jul 2007 10:14 am

Wasn't the Fender PS 210 also a crossover?

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 28 Jul 2007 6:34 pm

Yes Mike, the PS-210 is a crossover. In 1969, Gene Fields called me up and asked if I'd bring my Sho~Bud crossover down to Fender in Fullerton so their patent attorney could see it and determine if there was any patent conflict with Sho~Bud. There was no conflict so Fender produced the 15 or so guitars until they decided steel guitar was not where they wanted to go as a company. The fifteen may have already been produced by the time I visited the factory.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 29 Jul 2007 1:50 am

The Guitar :-

The mechanism :-

The full set of pictures are here :-
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012905.html

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Jul 2007 7:19 pm

basilh wrote:The Guitar :-

...and it really does work as well as it looks. When I was over at Basil's place he didn't have a steel set up with the copedant I was used to, so he adjusted this one in about 30 seconds.
It does everything the Multi-Kord and the Sho-Bud Crossover were designed to do, but accurately and easily.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 29 Jul 2007 7:44 pm

Alan
I have no idea what you're talking about. Please explain.
HS

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Jul 2007 8:06 pm

Herb: The idea of having the same pedals work on both necks means that you don't have to move into an awkward playing position to use the C6 pedals, and it makes sense that with a crossover mechanism it's like having twice as many pedals in the same space. Unfortunately, the Sho-Bud Crossover mechanism was dropped before they perfected it, as you know.
Harlin Brothers designed their mechanism so you could use any pedal on any string. What Fender have done in the guitar that Basil has, which you are very familiar with, is bring the ideas of those earlier instruments to fruition. It's a shame that their crossover mechanism hasn't become standard for pedal steels.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 30 Jul 2007 12:45 am

Herbster, A "Slight" exaggeration, it probably took all of five minutes to change the copedent on 5 of the pedals to Alan's. (I had it set up to a 'strange' one !
Once set up, it was rock solid and didn't even need "Tweaking". I think that's what Alan meant when he said "but accurately and easily."

I must admit, it's an ideal test bed for whatever you fancy !! (In changes etc) I've only found one flaw in the design, and I'm not so sure that is IS a flaw :-

The string spacing at the nut is the same as at the bridge (I can't say changer end because the nut IS the changer end) Anyway, it's quite difficult to get used to the wider string spacing down around the 1st to 5th frets.

And to answer the original poster's question "DEFINE" well, the pedals and knee levers crossover (Or Changeover) to the other neck when a mechanism is actuated.