Fender 1000 Idea

[b0b]

Having "more notes" available there really isn't that critical, and I don't need pedals for three-chord changes (moving the bar sounds like a guitar, which is the idea)...or one chord "boogie" stuff.

So why did you ask about adding pedals to it? I feel so used!

[Jim Sliff]

Hehe - experimentation. I just meant that the doubled-E's work well for me, not that it wasn't worth trying to move them. That's why I asked - to see if there was something I could use to *improve* on what I already like.

[Jay Fagerlie]

So what's the latest, b0b?
I pulled my Fender out of the closet and am in the process of restringing it. I think I'll try Jims copedants.....
Jay

[b0b]

The guitar should be here on Friday.

[b0b]

Just arrived. Well worn but appears to be all-original, including the manual. I'll set it up tonight. Film at Eleven.

[b0b]

I have it all strung up now, but the tuner for the 8th string of the front neck is broken. Not to worry - 7 strings is actually a pretty good idea too, especially for rhythm playing:
[tab] P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8
E
D -C#
B ++C#
G# +A -G
E --D
B ++C# --A
E
P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8
E +F
D +D#
C +C# -B
A ++B
G -F#
E -Eb +F
D
C +C#
P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6 P7 P8[/tab]
It's getting late. I'll hook up the pedals tomorrow.

I notice that the back neck sounds much thinner than the front neck. Is that normal?

[Jim Sliff]

b0b - They should sound almost identical. Assuming pickup height is OK and string gages are relatively equal, the first thing I'd do is flush out and reapply contact cleaner/lubricant to the switch; naphtha to get any gunk out, then Deoxit and Pro Gold. If that doesn't do it you likely have a bum pickup. I've had 2 1000's rewound by Jerry Wallace and they came back sounding exactly as originals do (I had both to compare).

It's too bad - sounds like the guitar has "issues" that weren't disclosed. I'd be looking to the seller for recourse, and if he/she doesn't cooperate file a complaint with eBay (if you used Paypal, even better)

[Moon in Alaska]

I have only played one Fender 1000. Both necks sounded the same...tone and level...
Moon

[b0b]

b0b - They should sound almost identical. Assuming pickup height is OK and string gages are relatively equal, the first thing I'd do is flush out and reapply contact cleaner/lubricant to the switch; naphtha to get any gunk out, then Deoxit and Pro Gold. If that doesn't do it you likely have a bum pickup. I've had 2 1000's rewound by Jerry Wallace and they came back sounding exactly as originals do (I had both to compare).

I'm not familiar with those products. I'll try cleaning the switch. The back one sounds like half a coil. Maybe a rewind is in order, or just a pickup replacement. Got one to sell?

[Jim Sliff]

Sorry, I don't have any spares. Haven't seen any around in quite a while or I'd grab them myself! I do not know of anyone making a replacement - the bobbin is an odd size, and the magnet partially protrude in back. A rewind is your best bet.

The products are by Caig - they sell small kits including bth products at Radio Shack. A kit lasts a LONG time, as you use the stuff very sparingly. Naphtha is just lighter fluid - the plastic Ronson bottle is cheapand convenient.

[Jay Fagerlie]

Jim and b0b,
I'm sitting here looking at my 1000, and I really want to play it. It's had C6 on the rear neck forever, and I like it, and I know two songs on it, so it stays The front neck is looking to go the SS route. Here's my dilemma...I only have 6 pedals, as I am missing two pedal rods. I have plenty of cables and the ability to modify them...torch and solder, etc..
So here's the question, What would be the best use of these 6 pedals?
I have a Dekley SD12 in ext. E9, so that base is covered.....
As far as the C6, I play that tuning on my console, so a couple of pedals are ok, but not really mandatory.

Any ideas? I can split them up any way I want, it's just I am not sure where I'd get the best bang for my buck.
One of these days I'll find the missing rods and maybe add a knee lever or two, but for right now the 6 is all I have.

Thanks guys

Jay

More thoughts...
I'm thinking I'll change the C6 to Jim's Sneaky B6, and use pedals 1,2,7, and 8.

That leaves me with SS and 3 pedals...
b0b, what 3 pedals would be your 'must have' on the SS tuning?
Thanks
Jay

[b0b]

The front neck is looking to go the SS route. Here's my dilemma...I only have 6 pedals, as I am missing two pedal rods. I have plenty of cables and the ability to modify them...torch and solder, etc..
So here's the question, What would be the best use of these 6 pedals?
I have a Dekley SD12 in ext. E9, so that base is covered.....
As far as the C6, I play that tuning on my console, so a couple of pedals are ok, but not really mandatory...

Here's one that gives you a reasonably complete Sacred Steel E7 and a pretty good C6th too:
[tab] P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6
E
D
B ++C#
G# +A -G
E ++F#
E --D
B ++C# --A
E
P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 P6
D
E (+F)
C +C# -B
A
G -F#
E -Eb
C +C#
A [/tab]
Notice 3 changes on P4. Other than that, it should be a piece of cake.

[Jim Sliff]

Jay - good call on the B6/4pedal copedent. You can play for years with just those changes and not get bored. If I was to add anything to the 1,2,7&8 setup the firrst thing I'd add would likely be the LKL 1st string lower, even on a pedal.

But - Over on our semi-inactive Fender board, I posted the info for a guy who makes rods for $10/ea. That would solve your missing parts problem.

You could also rig cables to pull on both necks, something b0b and I have been talking about - for lowers a spring change would probably be needed, and for raises a helper spring would be the ticket, but it IS easiy accomplished because of the unique way you can sort of "daisy chain" cables, small pulleys and loops.

[Jay Fagerlie]

Jim,
I don't have that kind....I have cast black pedals.

Does he do both?

Jay

[b0b]

Hooked up the pedals tonight. Boy, those lower springs are stiff! Where do you get lighter ones that fit?

[Jim Sliff]

I just take one of the existing ones into a local hardware store (usually the only place that has a specific cabinet of assorted springs) and buy an assortment of lighter ones that are close in size. You can always stretch lighter ones to fit, or cut long ones. then I just start changing them out (which takes seconds) and see how it feels. Of course, if raises are stiff it's either go to a lighter-gage string or add a helper spring, elastic band or something similar.

It's actually very easy to do and improves the playability immensely.

[Earnest Bovine]

Hooked up the pedals tonight. Boy, those lower springs are stiff! Where do you get lighter ones that fit?

These guys had it all for me:
http://www.centuryspring.com/

It may be easier to get their catalog than to shop on their web site.

[b0b]

Hooked up the pedals tonight. Boy, those lower springs are stiff! Where do you get lighter ones that fit?

These guys had it all for me:
http://www.centuryspring.com/

It may be easier to get their catalog than to shop on their web site.

Got parameters or an item number?

[Earnest Bovine]

Got parameters or an item number?

Yep, something like 38000 of them to choose from. All you need to do is decide the size, material (not important IMO), initial tension, and rate. Here is a bad scan from the catalog:



I had really good luck improving the feel of lowers on my GFI and Sho-Bud using these springs. I put a thread on the Forum about it last summer.

[John Billings]

Jim, I'd be inclined to lose the double E's and add a low B string. That would make the intervals on your lowest 4 strings the same as the intervals on the lower 4 in Low G tuning. I'd use one pedal to pull the B's to C#s. Another to pull theG#s to A's.
Actually, on further thought, that would make your 6 lowest strings the same as Low G tuning, just not in G, but in E. Lower is better!
And, on even further thought, that would give you some really cool stuff with the pedals and the first four strings! I might also be inclined to reverse the order of the first two strings, putting the lower D before the E.
Best, JB

[Fred Glave]

So bOb, other than the pedal tension issue, which can be fixed, how do you like the tone and overall playability?

[b0b]

So bOb, other than the pedal tension issue, which can be fixed, how do you like the tone and overall playability?

The pedals are too far apart. It will definitely take some getting used to. Simple changes like the "A" pedal feel really good and direct, but more complex pulls don't end together.

As for tone, I think there's a short in the rear pickup. It sounds thin and weak. I haven't measured it with an ohmmeter, but I bet it's wrong. The front pickup sounds great.

Visually, the first string on the front neck seems to disappear because of parallax, much worse that on a modern steel. That is a bit disorienting. I think it's because it has thinner necks and fretboards than a modern guitar, and it sits taller.

The lack of knee levers is the biggest playability issue. I don't want to add them, though. Lots of people have customized old Fenders. I'd like to keep this one "stock".

[Fred Glave]

I wouldn't think that putting some simple knee levers on will negatively affect it's value. Since the levers would just be attached to cables and the underside which can be removed cleanly. Just some screw holes in the underside. The cables can definitely make the timing of each string in a pull off a bit, but you can make adjustments to get it sounding pretty good. And I think a lot of Fender/cable steel players USE that cable "problem" to get a unique style and sound. It is definitely something that will require you to get a feel for. It's kind of like buying a really old car. Nothing really wrong with it, and potentially a lot right, but it takes getting used to. You will have a lot of fun creating and experimenting with you're own copedents, since changing things around is so darn simple and quick!

[b0b]

Changing the copedent is soooo easy! I think that Fender really did the fledgling steel community a great service with this design. I imagine that it spawned an explosion of experimentation which evolved into the standards that we have today.

[basilh]

Visually, the first string on the front neck seems to disappear because of parallax, much worse that on a modern steel. That is a bit disorienting. I think it's because it has thinner necks and fretboards than a modern guitar, and it sits taller.

I find that because there's a bigger gap between the necks than on a modern steel, I can use the nearest neck as the MAIN one and the front one as the "Other".
That way parallax isn't so much of a problem and not having to stretch so much puts my hands at a better height and angle.