***I want the absolute truth!!!!!***

Allen Howington · Post by **Allen Howington** » 13 Jul 2007 6:59 pm

Here comes the biggest bucket of worms anyone has ever seen. Where has and where does the best tone come from when we're talking about Emmons. Does it come from the All Pull system or the Push-Pull system? If your answer is All Pull, which off these; Legrande, Lashley Legrande (I), Lashley Legrande II, Lashley Legrande III, (or any other vintage that I'm not aware of)??????. And if your answer is the Push-Pull, which vintage of that gives the best tone;Bolt-On, Cut-Tail, Fat-Back, Wrap-around, (or any other vintage that I'm not aware of)?????? I'm seriously seeking opinions!!!!!!

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 13 Jul 2007 7:24 pm

Under the right hands... any of 'em.

John Walden · Post by **John Walden** » 13 Jul 2007 7:34 pm

The truth is, after only playing the Pedal Steel for about 5 years, and regarding " TONE ", my PP, 1980, sounds just like my 2000 LeGrande III, only SWEEEETER. It's a cut-tail. ( and,even under my hands )

Thomas Stanley · Post by **Thomas Stanley** » 13 Jul 2007 8:00 pm

Whichever fits on an old Sho Bud solid-wood cabinet!

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 13 Jul 2007 9:14 pm

Well, I probably sound like a broke record here but I still think it's the player behind the guitar. Any of the above guitars will usually sound good with the right player.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Jul 2007 2:31 am

What's the best overall car?

(if I gave you a Ferrari, would you be Mario Andretti?)
What's the best dog ever?

(if I gave you a collie, would she be smarter than Lassie?)
If you had to live on a desert island and could only eat one thing for the rest of your life, what would it be?

(if I gave you a coconut, would you be a Hawaiian?)

*(What's the most amount of money any one person has ever spent, lifetime, because they got suckered into the notion that you can buy your way into great musicianship?)*

*(Being the questor, here, I am obviously disqualified from having to answer this question)*

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jul 2007 3:00 am

The absolute truth is that purple guitars sound better than guitars of any color, and all pull vs push pull has nothing to do with it.

Also, guitars with the E to Eb lower on the left knee sound better than those with the change on the right knee.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 14 Jul 2007 3:53 am

Bucket of worms? Here's a real bucket of worms. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15224793/

Einstein said a mouthful when he argued that there are no absolute frames of reference. I think the idea applies to more than physics.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 14 Jul 2007 4:05 am

Experienced players sound good on just about any steel, regardless of make or push or pull, some guys sound bad on most any brand cause they never took there steel guitar 'to bed with them', as they should have!! You just cannot sound exactly like someone else, so be yourself, play your steel & take it to bed with you and your tone will come right too you, just hang in there & practice with tracks as much as possible to improve your chops & time.

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Jul 2007 5:00 am

(if I gave you a coconut, would you be a Hawaiian?)

I fee certain that, if you, Sir, were to provide me with a coconut, then I would indeed be a Hawaiian.
.

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 14 Jul 2007 7:54 am

Mike P. is absolutely telling the truth, especially about the E-Eb on the left knee. Or should it be on my other left?

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 14 Jul 2007 8:09 am

Red Guitars can be played faster, but the tone is not as good.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 14 Jul 2007 8:48 am

A Fuscsia colored steel guitar?

I dunno........
I've seen purple Harley Davidsions, purple back-hoes; purple log trucks; purple 18-wheelers, but most of those guys are rough and tough enough to defend their stand.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 14 Jul 2007 9:04 am

Well, I think it all depends on how the guitars are tuned, ET or JI....

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 14 Jul 2007 9:24 am

It's definately the player not the steel. For instance, I've seen and heard Buddy Emmons on his old Bigsby, ShoBud, Emmons, Sierra, MCI, & Zumsteel and guess what, he still gets (and got) great tone no matter what brand he was/is playing.

The same for Doug Jernigan, I've seen and heard him play Emmons, ShoBud, Derby, Zumsteel and he always gets his tone and sounds just like himself. That old saying about "tone is in the hands of the player" is true IMHO.

I think a player can suffer with bad tone because of a bad amplifier much more than he can because of a guitar!.......JH in Va.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 14 Jul 2007 9:26 am

cause they never took their steel guitar 'to bed with them'

I can (and have) taken dogs to bed with me, and would consider it with a coconut, but I think a pedal steel guitar might be very lumpy to sleep with especially if it rolls around in the middle of the night.

~Though, that fuchsia does look very fetching on you, Snookums~ (No, it doesn't make your endplate look fat....)

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jul 2007 9:38 am

Jim Bob Sedgwick wrote:Red Guitars can be played faster, but the tone is not as good.

My next guitar is going to look like this

Shane Reilly · Post by **Shane Reilly** » 14 Jul 2007 10:16 am

The second one looks kinda "Sonny and Cher",I'd go with the octopus on acid,or Jimi the squid or whatever it is.But then again Cher does have good tone.That reminds me,I must go skiing this weekend.What was the question?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 14 Jul 2007 10:33 am

Okay, noboy's taking Allen seriously, so let me try to help frame the question I believe he is asking. Suppose the same top player is playing all these guitars. So that eliminates the "tone is in the hands" variable, because it's all the same hands for this experiment. And suppose all the guitars have the same pickup and are played through the same volume pedal and amp. Unless everyone believes all these guitars sound exactly the same, there would be some differences in tone. Granted that people have different preferences in tone, which guitar would be most likely to get a consensus vote of best tone among a dozen or so educated listeners?

Since we are unlikely to actually do that experiment. A more practical question might be: among those of you who have owned or tried more than one of the above guitars, which one had the best tone to you (again these are all played by the same person's hands, and hopefully the same pedal and amp, although the same pickup might be hoping for too much)?

This is a legitimate question for someone looking to buy some model of Emmons pedal steel.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 14 Jul 2007 10:55 am

I have never noticed a difference in the tone of push-pull vs. all-pull Emmons guitars. I've heard differences between individual guitars, but no trend that I could pin on the changer design.

The debate about color is largely tongue-in-cheek, but it underscores what I just wrote. You are about as likely to find a great-sounding Emmons based on color as any mechanical criteria, in my opinion. The only way to know if a particular guitar has "the sound" that you're looking for is to play it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jul 2007 11:09 am

David Doggett wrote:.... nobody's taking Allen seriously...

OK, here's a serious answer:

Just as no 2 people are alike (save for identical twins) no 2 trees are exactly alike. The molecular density and subsequent degree of resonance will vary slightly from tree to tree, and so every guitar made out of wood will be slightly different from every other guitar made out of wood. Even guitars made out of wood cut from the same tree will have subtle differences.

Also, the term "best" is totally subjective. Is red better than blue? is Chinese food better than Italian?

So Allen, in all seriousness, my advice to you is to forget all generalizations like push pull vs all pull or bolt on vs wraparound, and play as many guitars as you can, and when you find one that you like, buy that specific one, not one that's "just like it" that in fact will be somewhat or perhaps even totally different.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jul 2007 2:35 pm

Here it is , the absolute truth..

I think..

I owned an '86 Lashley Legrande D10 last year, side by side and on tape it sounded identical to my 2004 Carter.

I know a few other truths but they have nothing to do with Steel Guitars

And thats the truth.

tp

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 14 Jul 2007 3:44 pm

Tony,
I'm sorry!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 14 Jul 2007 3:57 pm

"Where has and where does the best tone come from when we're talking about Emmons.

As Mike mentioned, tone is subjective. The question cannot be answered except by yourself. Whichever one you like best is the best one.

Allen Howington · Post by **Allen Howington** » 14 Jul 2007 4:33 pm

So the next time I read on the forum that a person has a steel for sale that has "THAT" Emmons Push-Pull tone, I’ll just go get a "grain of salt" and put it with the statement being made, ‘cause as my peers have all agreed, there is no difference in guitars, just HANDS!!!!

Personally, I did make my choice of guitars by going and hearing a lot of players playing different steels. Then I did set behind and play several brands that I had heard and enjoyed the sound of as well as the “HANDS”. There are some other good steels out there, but I have not found nor heard no other steel that, IN MY OPINION, can "tie the shoes" of the Emmons LeGrande II (especially prior to 2000 year models). ""DON'T SHOOT ME"", that's just my consensus, and my very Humble opinion and taste.

Who knows, maybe we’ll never hear the cliché again,
“This guitar has that Emmons Push-Pull tone”

The Steel Guitar Forum

I want the absolute truth!!!!!

I want the absolute truth!!!!!

The Truth ?

tone on Emmons

Yes Indeed!!

I want the absolute truth

colored g'tars!

Now for my opinion!