C6, where do I start

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 8:11 am

I've decided to commit to C6 but I'm not sure where to begin.

I have a decent foundation in theory, so I don't need any help finding chords or scales. I'm just not sure what to do as far as accompanying a chord progression. My experience so far with the lap steel has been single-line melodies, hence my preference for EADGBE tuning........becuase I know that tuning well. When I try to use chords is when I sound not so good. I just can't seem to make it fit.

What I need is help with transitioning between chords, typical runs, and just ideas in general. Is there any good instructional material with sound samples or a cd included that won't start me with the very basics?

I need someone who can sit beside me, listen to the song that my band wants me to add some steel to, and say "ok this is a blah blah blah progression, here's a nice little thing you can add to it".

Sounds like I need a teacher.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 29 Sep 2006 8:34 am

WHERE? in Oregon might you reside?

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 29 Sep 2006 8:34 am

Hello James,

Here is Larry Behm's contact info. Hopefully you don't live too far from Portland.

Larry Behm
lcbehm@aracnet.com
Videos and "Live" lessons in Milwaukie, Oregon area.

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 8:40 am

Ray, we've met before. I live in the old church in SE Portland, Ladd's Addition.

I've finally come around to C6 and chords. I've got nicer equipment now as well.

You still giving lessons? email me your phone number: thejamesmayer AT hotmail DOT com

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Sep 2006 8:54 am

"Sounds like I need a teacher".

You need a double neck. You say you have a solid understanding of the standard guitar tuning---why toss it out?? It will be nice for your melody playing and for blues and rock stuff.

If I were you and was starting out with a new tuning and wanted to really play some nice chords as you have stated, I would have someone make me a double neck 8/6 instrument. Put the standard guitar tuning on the 6 string neck and put the Leavitt tuning on the 8 string neck. You can play more modern chords on the Leavitt tuning than you can on C6.

The C6 tuning will always herd you towards that classic C6 sound that is fine for Western swing or old Hank country, but it is such a dated sound. If that is what you are looking for then fine, but if you are looking for a more modern sound in chord progressions and -7b5,#9,diminished, augmented etc chords, then check out the Leavitt tuning before you totally commit to C6.

Maybe you need a triple neck.....

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 9:04 am

Crap, you are trying to steer me away from C6th. I feel like I will never make a decision. I do have two steels, both 6-string, mounted on a keyboard stand with a A/B switchbox. One of them is in standard guitar tuning.

I'm not in the market to buy an 8-string. I need to stop buying and start playing.

Do you have any sound samples of what the leavitt tuning sounds like? By the way, I like the dated sounds I hear on old records. I'm into the retro thing as well as the experimental ebow-laden Friends of Dean Martinez stuff.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 29 Sep 2006 9:09 am

I agree. It is too early to commit to a tuning. I personally have found that I don't think of steel guitar so much as a chord instrument as a melody and fill instrument. When I play, "chords", I think of them more like a violinist would-as double or triple stops. I play mostly single string stuff at this point. That is a way different way of looking at the guitar than I understand from Mr. Hatcher. I don't consider one right and the other wrong or one better or worse. It's just a different approach. Even so, I am beginning to experiment just a little with Leavit tuning to compliment my C6. His advice is sound. Use your six string guitars. Your feeling of needing to quit buying and start playing is also right. But my suggestion is to play with both tunings. I think they both have value. While you're learning, continue to use the tuning you have been as long as you need or want to. Don't worry. Take your time. PLaying steel guitar is a lifetime pursuit. You have plenty of time. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Edward Meisse on 29 September 2006 at 10:14 AM.]</p></FONT>

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Sep 2006 9:33 am

James.

Then you basically have a double neck already in the configuration you are using.

As I said, if you are fine with the retro/dated C6 leanings then proceed with the C6.

If you find that you need some more modern jazz style chords then investigate the Leavitt.

There will come a time in your steel journey that 8 strings or even more will become your friend also.

I will send you a jazz standard done on an 8 string guitar, but really only using the 6 inner strings most of the time. Also Mike Idhe from the Berklee school of music has a bunch of material done for the Leavitt tuning. Do a Google search for his site.

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 29 Sep 2006 9:40 am

Do you mean Mike Ihde?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Sep 2006 9:53 am

Yes. Thanks for correcting the spelling on his last name.

James. I sent you an MP3 of a jazz standard done using the Leavitt tuning. You will get a good idea of the wonderful chord possibilities using this tuning. Not trying to steer you away from C6, just trying to give you some info on a tuning that allows many wonderful chords.

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 29 Sep 2006 10:34 am

I've got Cindy Cashdollar's DVD on C6th.If you can't learn from that,don't know what to tell ya.Gal is sharp.Works for me. PJ

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 11:09 am

Bill, I just listened to it. I like it, but I don't see that sound fitting what I want.

Jazz is not one of my influences.

Do you have mp3 examples of other tunings you could send me?

I've always been a fan of the spaghetti western soundtracks by Ennio Morricone. Something like could really benefit from steel guitar.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Sep 2006 11:15 am

Run with the C6 then.

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 29 Sep 2006 11:31 am

James,
The following are some mp3 samples of:

Various tunings

Some more tunings

Tell us what you think afterwards.

Aloha,

Don

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 29 Sep 2006 12:35 pm

I don't think you can say that the C6 tuning is dated. No musical form ever disappears: styles just go in and out periodically, according to personal whims.

C6 and E9 both have their places.

If you want to start playing C6 get yourself some Jerry Byrd records, or ones on which he's backing other people, my favorites being the recordings he did with Marty Robbins. Then just close your eyes and play the tune. In C6 almost everything sounds concordant.

Terry Farmer · Post by **Terry Farmer** » 29 Sep 2006 12:36 pm

James, I believe you can play anything or any style you want in C6. Check out this thread. Oh yeah, and read it 5 times. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003549.html

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 12:54 pm

Don, I'm listening to these at work while I can. They all sound pretty similar in style, so far........they all sound Hawaiian. Are most of these in the same tuning?

James Mayer · Post by **James Mayer** » 29 Sep 2006 12:57 pm

So far, I like this one the best, even though I don't like the drum machine and back track.
http://www.hsga.org/membersrecordings/BillLeff/MoodNoir.mp3

but I still have plenty to listen to.

It doesn't seem like it matters what tuning this is becuase it's all single-line stuff? Or am I wrong?

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 29 Sep 2006 6:35 pm

Alan. Please re-read my post. I did not say the C6 tuning is dated. I said the C6 "sound" is dated, which it is.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 Sep 2006 7:15 pm

Start on
fret 5, string 7 and above.
put feet on pedals 5 and 6,
but use 6 1st.
Now just mess around.

P6 is like doing the D9 chord over A on a guitar.

But also can be the minor chord 1 if you don't play 2nd string

5+6 together is a diminised type chord

P5 is good too. like a II7
But also 2 frets down from one as a transition chord to I or IV.

Drop down to string 8 and up 3 frets for the minor of I

That's a start.
mess around have fun,
and pick to a slow blues tune with all the above.
Much will become clearer.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Sep 2006 7:35 pm

Uh, David. This is the "No Peddlers" section of the Forum...

Pete Blakeslee · Post by **Pete Blakeslee** » 29 Sep 2006 8:33 pm

Bill: The C6 sound is dated, but the tuning is not? Is that a distinction without a difference?

Pete Blakeslee
Lincoln, NE

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 29 Sep 2006 10:13 pm

Whenever I use C6th, (which is very seldom), I tune it one-half tone lower to B6. As I mentioned in my previous threads, playing a tune like "Steelin' the Blues" will put you in the key of Db when using the C6th tuning. If you play it using the B6th, you will be in the key of C which is a heck of a lot easier for an erstwhile r/guitarist to accompany. JMHO...of course.

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 29 Sep 2006 10:48 pm

James,

There are a lot of different song titles other than Hawaiian song titles on the HSGA site.

Kay Das has many pop songs at the HSGA site.

The following are just a sampling of other songs on steel guitar by a variety of steelers:

Fascinatin' Rhythm
Under Paris Skies
I Feel Pretty (West Side Story)
An Orange Grove In California
Poinciana
J'Attendrai
Arrivederci Roma
Stars Fell On Alabama
Smoke Rings
I'm Getting Sentimental Over You
Indian Love Call
Singing Bamboo
Little Coquette
I Can't Help It If I'm Still In Love With You
Lover
Nuages
Summer Song
Jazzin' the Strings

Keep on listening. These recordings have other tunings besides C6th. It is too bad they did not give the tunings on each selection.

Good hunting.

Aloha,

Don

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 30 Sep 2006 3:07 am

Pete. Just because the tuning has the 6th chord does not mean that have to play it so much. Pop, country, jazz, blues, rock of this day does not feature the 6th chord sound like it did 50 or 60 years ago. It is a vintage, retro, classic dated sound. Nothing wrong with it at all, just dated.