Would this be at all fun?

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 21 Jun 2007 4:39 am

So many of us non-peddlers nowadays have a means to record... I got to thinking (oh no, you say)... wouldn't it be fun if we were all given a common starting point (like a certain melody) and we each posted our individual creations? Maybe like, SUBJECT: One time through--COLD COLD HEART. Then everybody would post their own version of Cold Cold heart played once through. It would be really neat to hear all the individual styles over the same song.

Okay scratch that.

I think a specific melody might be too confining. There's a rainbow of genres represented by the players on this forum. How can we open this up a bit, yet still have a common starting point?

Maybe start with a given set of chord changes?

Scratch that, still too confining...

How could we structure such a project and have it be fun and inclusive of everybody?

On second thought... let's go back to the original idea. Maybe it would be interesting to start with a tune like "Cold Cold Heart". It would be neat to hear the Country Western folks do it. Then the Blues folks. Then the Hawaiian folks. Then the Jazzers. Then the Bluegrass folks. Then the different Rock stylists. Etcetera. All of these different styles over the same song. These are all broad classifications and I know most artists hate being categorized... but... am I sorta getting the idea across?

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 21 Jun 2007 5:22 am

I think it'd be interesting, but I think the most important part of the whole idea would be the accompaniment. It's hard for me to get past canned tracks, like BIAB. I'd rather hear just an acoustic rhythm guitar.

Fred Kinbom · Post by **Fred Kinbom** » 21 Jun 2007 5:22 am

Jeff - great idea!

Where can I listen to this song to familiarize myself with it?

All the best,

Fred

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 21 Jun 2007 5:27 am

Sounds like fun Jeff!
So, one verse of "Cold Cold Heart" - is that the idea?

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 21 Jun 2007 5:47 am

Mike Neer writes:

It's hard for me to get past canned tracks, like BIAB. I'd rather hear just an acoustic rhythm guitar.

I disagree Mike. I think we should all use the same rhythm BIAB rhythm track (with the Coyote Dxi sampled sounds and the real drums - in the newest BIAB version). This way everyone has the same basis to work from and we can hear the differences in steel styles and how each of us work off a standard rhythm. Sort of like a "control" in a lab experiment.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 21 Jun 2007 7:04 am

Hmm... I had it in mind that the control in this experiment would actually be the song itself. I think we should allow for different kinds of accompaniment...different rhythms... and even reharmonization... but not too much straying from the melody.

John Dahms · Post by **John Dahms** » 21 Jun 2007 7:24 am

Use caution & taste or this will take on the atmosphere of a gunfight with a bunch of hot licks and tricks and little finesse (all jimmies and nuts and no ice cream).

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 21 Jun 2007 7:31 am

The question is what are we hoping to see/hear?

If we allow different backup arrangements, some will be full blown multi-instrumental and others will be sparse with perhaps a single guitar strumming chords. Using this approach we will hear the musician's arranging and steel guitar skills.

If we use the BIAB approach we will hear how each musician responds to the same rhythm and chord changes.

One is not better than the other. It's just a different headset and set of expectations.

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 21 Jun 2007 8:34 am

You'd be excluding anyone who doesn't have that program.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 21 Jun 2007 8:46 am

Not really. What I picture is the BIAB backup track would be converted to an MP3 or WAV for download.

You then use this as a single track on your recording.

And with BIAB we could have all 12 keys available as a download. It would take seconds to generate these.

The question then is... what style? Swing, Country, Rock?

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 21 Jun 2007 9:08 am

I see.

Les Doerfler · Post by **Les Doerfler** » 21 Jun 2007 9:23 am

Great idea, Jeff!

I would rather see this take place without the BIAB element being required.

The way I would envision it would be someone would post a link to the source song so everyone has the same starting point as a reference, and then just let everyone have at it in their own way.

The results would be much more interesting to me and give a better insight into the individual musician's style.

Also, if someone wanted to set up a BIAB track to share with others, no problem. Just don't make it required.

Michael Papenburg · Post by **Michael Papenburg** » 21 Jun 2007 9:33 am

I love this idea. I'm definitely interested. I'd rather not use the backing tracks, though.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 21 Jun 2007 9:35 am

George "Keoki" Lake from north of the Arctic Circle, used to do a round robin type of sharing program.' It was simple and nice. We merely played our choice of songs onto an audio cassette that Keoki provided. There was a list of participants included and when we finished our contribution, we'd simply package the cassettes and send them off to the next person on the list. Half of the fun was wrapping up the little package.
George, why don't you come on in here and tell us more as I've forgotten why there were so many cassettes in each package.
Fun idea Jeff Au Hoy, if'n you don't make it too complicated, equipment-wise.

Jude Reinhardt · Post by **Jude Reinhardt** » 21 Jun 2007 11:11 am

Sound like fun, but when I play it's just me and the instrument. I admit that good backup would make me sound better, yeah, put Asleep At The Wheel behind me and I'll single note Cold Cold Heart. Bet I'd sound good. I'd rather just hear someone play their instrument. Solo, alone, got the blues, so lonesome I could cry, just me and my guitar expressing myself.

Jude - Who's report card always said "Jude doesn't play well with others".

Nathan Golub · Post by **Nathan Golub** » 21 Jun 2007 11:12 am

This is a great idea. It'd be very cool to hear everyone's interpretation of the song, whether it's unaccompanied, BIAB, live backup or otherwise.

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 21 Jun 2007 12:49 pm

Would it be possible for those of us who play in more than one style or who have more than one guitar, to post several variations ?

Why "Cold Cold Heart" Jeff, why not a "standard" or well know Hawaiian tune/song.?
we may even end up with a project CD like Bruce Clarke's "War Chants Galore"

Matt Johnson · Post by **Matt Johnson** » 21 Jun 2007 2:36 pm

I think this is a very exciting idea. The tunes could be solo, BIAB backup, ryhthm guitar, etc. The more options, the more participants! Unless it would create copyright problems, could it be arranged where the original poster could provide an .mp3 of an old recording of the song as well? (and chord charts for lesser experienced of us?)

That way, everyone who wanted to could reply with their recording. I guess it would just take someone to start us off with:
1. an .mp3 of the song (not sure about copyright issues, or which version. Just whatever version inspires you)
2. chords
3. their recording of it

Steve Atwood · Post by **Steve Atwood** » 21 Jun 2007 4:31 pm

I'm new here and new at playing steel, but I think this would be a lot of fun and good for learning too, and I have some thoughts on it. Wouldn't an ideal control be a song that no one's heard before, and either in tab format (or in a midi sound file) so that everyone starts with just the unembellished notes and then adds his (or her) style to it?

I had a lot of fun learning a song from the back of the JB instruction book, that isn't on the recording, and coming up with some ideas on how to bring it to life. The song is "Hawaiian Love". I haven't seen it listed in any of the albums I've seen on line.

Another idea would be -- maybe some people have songs they've written that noone's heard. They could be submitted and one could be chosen.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 21 Jun 2007 4:33 pm

To get some sort of co-ordination you could specify a key and a tempo, and then string them all together into one long recording.

I remember many years ago, when one song used to be covered by many artists, Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Guy Mitchell and Perry Como all recorded the same song with the same tempo in the same key, and one of the disc jockeys on Radio Luxembourg synchronised them all together singing at the same time. It was a long time ago now, but I seem to remember the number was called "Man on Fire", or something like that.

Frank Lombard · Post by **Frank Lombard** » 21 Jun 2007 7:18 pm

Basil...
Where I come from Cold Cold Heart IS a standard !

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 22 Jun 2007 12:15 am

Sorry Frank, it's the "Trans-Atlantic syndrome" kicking in, over here "Standard" means from the Great American Songbook, and Cold Cold Heart would be classed as "Country..

Frank Lombard · Post by **Frank Lombard** » 22 Jun 2007 6:39 am

Definately Country and Classic Hank Williams
Cold Cold Heart is built in to all USA built Steel Guitars, you just need to dig around a bit for the notes

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 22 Jun 2007 7:58 am

Frank Lombard wrote:...Cold Cold Heart is built in to all USA built Steel Guitars, you just need to dig around a bit for the notes

Absolutely ! My PSG refuses to play in tune unless I play Cold, Cold Heart at least once a session !

Of course, it also insists on me playing "Harbor Lights" if I want to get the C6 neck to co-operate.

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 22 Jun 2007 10:02 am

Jeff, I like your creative mind.

Jeff says

I had it in mind that the control in this experiment would actually be the song itself.

If you want only to look at individual creations with different styles then the song, COLD, COLD HEART would be the constant and style would be the variable to be tested.

This being the case you would just let everybody do their own thing (or as Rick would say, thang), backup and all, and even give the choice of straying from the melody, since you want to evaluate different creative styles.

Gerald’s idea seems to be having a different approach. He says;

hear the differences in steel styles (sounds?) and how each of us works off a standard rhythm.

It sounds like he wants to test the differences in sound of each steel guitarist. Here the constant would be the backup, and the variable is steel playing. So his idea of BIAB would fit.

How can an MP3 copy of chords be a violation of copyright? Plus this is an educational exercise, isn't it? No violation for educational purposes.

Aloha,

Don

The Steel Guitar Forum

Would this be at all fun?

Would this be at all fun?

GREAT IDEA there Jeff!