Please help me !!! (first topic,long question)

[Nicolò Verrini]

Hi everybody,
This is my first post here.I'm Nicolo' Verrini 24 from Italy.
I've been playing regular guitar since I was 12.
After that I heard Chuck Campbell (here in milan) and Robert Randolph (all his albums) my thoughts about pedal steel changed.
I've bought the dvd "Learn The Pedal Steel Guitar Of Chuck Campbell " and it was shocking(I watch it every day) not only the way of playing the steel but also for the music,the culture and the message of sacred steel.
Now I really want to buy a pedal steel, but I have some problem with the tuning.
This would be my dream setup, 13 string with the same setup of Chuck Campbell :

Do you think is a stupid setup? Please help me improve it.
I've ended up with this setup because my only infos on sacred steel come from the dvd.
Please help me to compare MY tuning with this one:

Sorry for my question (and bad english) but I don't know really where to start,
I'm lost.

Thank you so much.
Nicolo'

[Ron Whitworth]

Hello Nicolo'
I won't attempt to answer your question but I assure you someone here will.Just wanted to welcome you to the Steel Guitar Forum.Dive into the search function also & that will keep you busy reading for a couple of years also!! Again, welcome & enjoy this great new found passion of yours..Ron

[Nicolò Verrini]

Thank you anyway Ron.
Nicolò

[Earnest Bovine]

Nicolò,
The 13th string will be expensive. And I think you will not use it very much.
Even an 11 string or 12 strings steel guitar is probably hard to find, and very expensive in Europe. I cannot hear the sacred steel guys using strings 11, 12, 13.
So I think a 10 string steel guitar is much better for a beginner.

[Ron Randall]

When playing with other instruments in the band, there will little opportunity to use the low strings.

Example: I play a Universal 12 string. In every band situation I have played in, my low notes are not needed. Because: bass player, piano player with a heavy left hand, guitar players, are playing notes in that space. If I try to compete in that musical space, my intonation will never be as good as their instruments.

Solo is wonderful, where one can use the full power of the instrument.

Welcome

[Nicolò Verrini]

When playing with other instruments in the band, there will little opportunity to use the low strings.

Example: I play a Universal 12 string. In every band situation I have played in, my low notes are not needed. Because: bass player, piano player with a heavy left hand, guitar players, are playing notes in that space. If I try to compete in that musical space, my intonation will never be as good as their instruments.

Solo is wonderful, where one can use the full power of the instrument.

Welcome

You're right...
Probably I won't need so many low strings.
Thank all of you guys.
I don't know anything about pedal steel and I know I'm asking stupid question but this is the only way of learning something.

[Ron !]

And.....that!!! is exactly why all of us are members here.We all want to learn.

Ron

[Michael Strauss]

Nicolò,

There are no stupid questions. I hate that team. If you don’t know something and don’t ask, that’s stupid. Questions are the way we learn and share knowledge. I’m fairly new here and I got to tell you, these guys have a tremendous amount of knowledge and are so willing to share. I spend way to much time reading all the posts in all the different sections. As Ron said

Hello Nicolo'
I won't attempt to answer your question but I assure you someone here will.Just wanted to welcome you to the Steel Guitar Forum.Dive into the search function also & that will keep you busy reading for a couple of years also!! Again, welcome & enjoy this great new found passion of yours..Ron

Welcome to an amazing place
Michael

[Anders Brundell]

Go for your dream 13-stringer, Nicolo!
You'll soon learn how to use the heavier strings in a way that a 10 string player would never even think of, and develop a style that involves those strings naturally. The sound of the heavy strings differs a lot from piano and bass, so they won't clash but complement each others.
If you limit yourself to a 10 stringer you will not come up with the cool low register stuff.
This is what I have figured out during many years of playing a universal 14.
Good luck to you!

Anders in Falun, Sweden

[Ernest Cawby]

If you want to hear some beautiful low notes, listen to Jeff Newmans last recording. wow

ernie

[Billy Carr]

Sounds like a job for Jerry Fessenden. 802-229-4782.
"FESSENDEN" guitar builder. He built RR's three!

[Johan Jansen]

Hi Nicolo,
welcome to the forum!
It's no stupid question, but I have an advice for you:
You made your choice for a Chuck-Campbell set-up, but what I read here, you don't have much experience with pedal steel.I would advice you to decide for the same set-up as Chuck to start, so you can copy his pedal and string-use. When you got more experienced in this, you can always fool around with pedals to get your own thing.
I wish you much luck! Starting out with a 'Nashville-E9'is much easier than what you want to reach!
See ya!
Johan

[Nicolò Verrini]

Go for your dream 13-stringer, Nicolo!
You'll soon learn how to use the heavier strings in a way that a 10 string player would never even think of, and develop a style that involves those strings naturally. The sound of the heavy strings differs a lot from piano and bass, so they won't clash but complement each others.
If you limit yourself to a 10 stringer you will not come up with the cool low register stuff.
This is what I have figured out during many years of playing a universal 14.
Good luck to you!

Anders in Falun, Sweden

Hi Anders,
What's the manufacturer of your custom universal 14?
Was it very expensive ?
I've contacted different PSG builders and for me Carter is one of the greatest company out there. I wrote to Ann Fabian (from carter) ,last week, and she helped me a LOT.
Carter REALLY cares about their customers.

P.S.= I've contacted also Jerry Fessenden but both his 13 and 12 are FAR more expensive than Carter.

[Anders Brundell]

I have a Sierra (price list at http://sierrasteels.com/pages/price.html ) that I got second hand from Scotty's Music ( http://www.scottysmusic.com/ ) many years ago to a quite reasonable price.
Scotty's a really great guy! I recommend his shop to other steelers.
GFI (price list at http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Pages/Prices.htm ) also manufactures an S14 ( http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Image ... 0Black.jpg )and my guess is that both Carter, Sierra and GFI, as well as several other brands, are good choices. Cabinet drop is mainly a problem of the past with today's materials and manufacturing techniques.
Friends of mine playing GFI and Carter are satisfied with their guitars.
I would personally prefer the Emmons growl before the thinner and sharper Sierra sound, but a TrueTone custom single coil pick up from Jerry Wallace http://www.jerrywallacemusic.com/ has improved the sound a lot. But sound is a matter of personal taste, so there are no rights and wrongs there.

[ed packard]

My personal preference is 14 strings...if you have the mechanism for the 14 strings, you can use as many, or as few as you like...if you don't, you can't. Just leave off the ones that you don't want, or put them on if you want them.

The low strings are not needed for a Nashville/Bakersfield sound...to see how they can be used, listen to some of Bill Stafford's work (CDs).

You will probably want to change what the pedals/levers do at some point...make sure that you can remove the bell cranks without removing the cross shafts.

Interchangeable pickups (slide in/slide out) are convenient when you start to look for your own tone.

Welcome to the fountain of information, and misinformation.

[Nicolò Verrini]

I heard in the dvd that Chuck Campbell took a Universal 12 and changed the tuning like this from low to high:
B-E-B-E-E-G#-B-D-E-G#-D#-F#
I was wondering why Robert Randolph puts a low G# between E and B like this:
B-E-G#-B-E-E-G#-B-D-E-G#-D#-F#

Any Idea?

That's a Chuck Campbell video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0LcYNrZYGQ
And Robert Randolph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=untLILf2iME

[Joe Butcher]

From what I can tell, any of the single string/blues scale type runs you hear Randolph and Campbell doing, you can do on just about ANY steel.

Its the strumming (or as they call it "framming") that is exclusive to the scared steel tuning.

Carter has great steels at very reasonable prices.

Nice to have you here. Your English is fine!!

[b0b]

The low G# is a good idea for bass lines. If I needed to trim down from 13 strings to 12, I'd get rid of the 2nd string D#. You already have the D# note on the D string (it's Eb in your chart).

The basics of the Sacred Steel tuning are found in 8 strings, 4 pedals and 3 knee levers.
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Everything else is an extension. Chuck covers the basics plus his extensions in the course, but for the first couple of years you should concentrate on basics. If you have a 10 string, add the high G# and F#. If you have a 12 string, add the low G# and B.

I wouldn't consider a 13 string unless you happen to get a real good deal on one. They are rare.

Many of the pedals and levers used by Chuck and Robert are experimental. They are not necessary, especially for the beginner. They will only confuse you. Too many options. Start with the basics.

If you haven't seen it already, read my page about the Sacred Steel copedent: http://b0b.com/tunings/sacredsteel.html

[Nicolò Verrini]

The low G# is a good idea for bass lines. If I needed to trim down from 13 strings to 12, I'd get rid of the 2nd string D#. You already have the D# note on the D string (it's Eb in your chart).

The basics of the Sacred Steel tuning are found in 8 strings, 4 pedals and 3 knee levers.
<center>

</center>
Everything else is an extension. Chuck covers the basics plus his extensions in the course, but for the first couple of years you should concentrate on basics. If you have a 10 string, add the high G# and F#. If you have a 12 string, add the low G# and B.

I wouldn't consider a 13 string unless you happen to get a real good deal on one. They are rare.

Many of the pedals and levers used by Chuck and Robert are experimental. They are not necessary, especially for the beginner. They will only confuse you. Too many options. Start with the basics.

If you haven't seen it already, read my page about the Sacred Steel copedent: http://b0b.com/tunings/sacredsteel.html

Thank you b0b I know very well that page and it's very useful.
But I'm getting more and more confused.
I really think that a S-12 would be the one to choose , but..............
here in Italy is impossible to find steel and so I have to ask a manufacturer to build one for me and ship it to Italy ( I don't want to get a used psg).
And once I've decided to buy a psg I don't want to have any kind of regrets on string , tuning and setup.
I want to use it for many many years to come.

I will list the prices in $ that Carter and Fessenden that they wrote me by mail:

Carter
S-13 : 3195
S-12 : 2500

Fessenden
S-13 : 4000
S-12 : 3600

Do they really sound so different?

[b0b]

I honestly don't see the use for the D# string, or for the extra pedals, but if you think you could get used to them, go for it.

I reached my personal maximum at 5 pedals and 5 knee levers on 12 strings, regardless of the tuning. I found that I couldn't reliably use more than that. Even with 5 pedals, my foot misses sometimes. I know that I play better with 4 pedals, but I can't decide which one to give up.

Some people have no problem finding each of 7 pedals without looking. I'm not one of those people. On the other hand, some people can't get used to more than 10 strings, and many players only use 2 pedals even though their guitar has more.

You have a lot of confidence. Good luck!!!

[Charles Davidson]

Welcome to the forum,Nicolo from Alabama.