Dixie Chicks on ACL

[Susan Alcorn (deceased)]

OK, here goes. I don't want to stir things up, so I'll try to keep poilitics out of this. As far as their music goes, I enjoy some of it, but to my ears, I feel they have a tendency to sound a bit trite and shallow -- sort of, "Look at us, aren't we cute and talented?" The Dixie Chicks had been around Texas for years before they made it big. However, I think there is always hope, and I hope that they have and will grow a little bit as a result of what they've been through the last few years. That must have hurt them quite a bit.

I remember when John Lennon said something that was taken out of context and church groups were out there burning all their Beatles records. What the Dixie Chicks said that day in London, I don't think was well-thought out, nor was their apology afterwards. What they were saying is what many of us in Texas felt (and said) at the time. And now in 2007, it is an opinion of the vast majority of Americans. For music with social commentary, I prefer someone like Iris Dement or Steve Earle. I think they feel it more in their bones.

My problem with the Dixie Chicks is related to when they fired their original musicians from Dallas. Of course, that's the nature of "The Business", but in my way of thinking, it doesn't need to be, and that's something that's wrong with the business.

Tommy Nash is one of the best guitarists I've ever heard in my life, and is one of the most humble and kind musicians I've ever played with (and as we know, that can be an exception rather than the rule). He helped the Dixie Chicks put their band together and arranged the songs on their first album. When they fired him, it really hurt him (though of course there may be another side to the story that i don't know). When a singer would want to sing a Dixie Chicks song, he would just wince. Once he said, "Don't make me play that."

Things change, people change, and being fired from a band is something I expect most of us have been through at one time or another, but I really feel for my friend, and that colors my feelings when I hear their music and when they are so embraced by those on the left. Once there was a well-known singer whose music I really liked, and when I tried to tell him that I liked his music, his reply was very rude. After thirty years, I still don't listen to his records. So I guess it's just me.

Music is such a strange thing -- it is so close to our emotions that it's difficult to separate it from everything else. As listeners, our outside feelings often color our perception of the music itself. Perhaps this is the crack where, for many, the Dixie Chicks fall in. They are, first and foremost, entertainers just like most of the rest on country radio, and they're good at what they do. If people enjoy their music, I don't rain on their parade, but if I'm riding in a car with musicians for eight hours at a time in the middle of the night, and we're tlking music, and the subject of the Dixie Chicks comes up, I'd probably mention the great guitarist Tommy Nash -- just as I prematurely did here.

-- Susan

[David L. Donald]

Home is super.
Theresa get that one, you'll like it.

And the live DVD is also a winner.

[Theresa Galbraith]

David,
I appreciate it, but I've never been a fan.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I remember when John Lennon said something that was taken out of context and church groups were out there burning all their Beatles records.

Not to change the subject, but the irony of the firestorm that erupted after Lennon's comment about the Beatles being more popular than Jesus was that he was actually being critical of a society that placed more value of a rock band than they did on religion.

The people who got so upset at him totally missed the point of what he was saying. Had they understood what he meant, they would have agreed with him and applauded him for saying it.

[Randy Phelps]

Frequently, missing the point is the point. Acting outraged is easy, understanding and listening, not so much. It is easier to dismiss out of hand without consideration than to ask questions, find out, and think.

[b0b]

I remember when John Lennon said something that was taken out of context ...

Not to change the subject, but ...

Off topic! Any more discussion along these lines is sure to bring out the padlock.

[Eric West]

Sic 'em b0b..



ARF

EJL

[David L. Donald]

I saw a clip of Tommy Nash in another thread here,
fine player and winning stage presence.

I did notice also the band seemed a bit more
generic in that incarnation, and more country rock-ish.

It seems their big break happened when they changed their style a bit to get more acoustic/retro.
And since he, by Susan's report, Mr. Nash was pretty central
to their ~OLD sound, so the break from him was neccesary
for stylistic fresh air, so to speak.

So it is a debatable point that keeping the old band
might have very well left them just another good
but undifferentiated regional band,
and the big break might not have happened.

At this point in the story,
since they are more rockish now,
maybe it would be real cool for them to
call Tommy Nash for a tour and an album,
and make amends/rebuild bridges,
by putting him on the map world wide.

It would be a class act thing to do.

[Mark Eaton]

It seems their big break happened when they changed their style a bit to get more acoustic/retro.
And since he, by Susan's report, Mr. Nash was pretty central
to their ~OLD sound, so the break from him was neccesary
for stylistic fresh air, so to speak.

So it is a debatable point that keeping the old band
might have very well left them just another good
but undifferentiated regional band,
and the big break might not have happened.

At this point in the story,
since they are more rockish now,
maybe it would be real cool for them to
call Tommy Nash for a tour and an album,
and make amends/rebuild bridges,
by putting him on the map world wide.

It would be a class act thing to do.

Tommy Nash is a great guitar player. Have never met the man, so like most of us, I don't have the frame of reference that Susan Alcorn does.

As far as "the big break" goes, you can do the research, but I'm pretty sure that "Wide Open Spaces" which I believe came out in 1997, and the first album with Natalie in the group and on lead vocals, is the Chicks best selling album - something like 12 million copies. The next CD was "Fly" with less sales, but still a blockbuster.

The decidedly less commercial, and more bluegrass oriented "Home," which came out in 2002, I believe has sold around six to seven million units. Still a huge seller, but a far cry from "Wide Open Spaces" and not the big break album - that already happened about five years previous.

[Charlie McDonald]

I credit Lloyd Maines for the qualiy of 'Home.' He knew, firsthand, what the Chicks wanted to do, and did it invisibly--his hand is not obvious in the production, and it got them away from the two previous nashvillian productions.
The move has been away from 'cutesy', like the line dancing in the video w/ Tommy Nash. I can see them continuing along this path for the rest of their lives--a little less fame, but more music.
The 'mistakes' we make change things forever, but what we do with that makes the difference.

[Mark Eaton]

I became interested in the Dixie Chicks with the "Home" album. I had heard their hits previous to that, some of which are pretty good songs, and I knew a little bit of their background from the earlier days in Texas (Sharon Gilchrist, the fine mandolin player who is a member of the band featuring Peter Rowan and Tony Rice, was part of their group before they were the Chicks, and would travel with them and parents to various bluegrass festivals to play when they were teenagers).

But I also saw, when they had achieved massive popularity, videos of concerts with endless rows of ballpark 15 year old girls in "Chick Power" tee shirts, and I thought "I'll pass."

But I always gave them some credit for gleaning their name from the title of a Little Feat song and album ("Dixie Chicken") - one of my all-time favorite groups!

As part of our batch of Christmas presents, there are always some CD's in the stockings, so in 2002, having heard good reviews of the album, I bought "Home" for my wife. This was also pre "The Incident."

I remember telling my brother on the phone the next day, in discussing what Santa brought, that among six or seven new CD's in the stockings, this Dixie Chicks album was probably the best of the bunch.

Getting back more toward bluegrass, but not the purist stuff, sort of a bluegrass/country hybrid, and eminently listenable.

I think the Chicks have written some pretty good songs on their own, but I believe they are at their best as interpreters, which has really made the careers of women like Emmylou Harris or Linda Ronstadt.

One of the big hit singles from that CD. Darrell Scott's "Long Time Gone," has some of my favorite lines from about the last 10 years: We listen to the radio to hear what's cookin'/But the music ain't got no soul/Now they sound tired but they don't sound haggard/They got money but they don't have cash/They got junior but they don't have Hank..."

And despite any political differences, those lines share the sentiment of probably the majority of the members here on the Forum! Darrell Scott is an excellent songwriter, and I'm glad they got one of his fine tunes out there -and he is probably pretty happy with the royalty checks he has received in the meantime.

Along with most of the others on that album, I really like "Top Of The World" which was written by another outstanding composer, Patty Griffin. And sometimes dismissed as "maudlin," there's "Travelin' Soldier" by Emily's brother-in-law, and another Texan, Bruce Robison. Emily also plays a real fine dobro break on that one, and with the aid of a pro player out here from whom I took a lesson a few weeks ago, we dissected that break so that I'm getting to the point where I can almost play it.

Marty Stuart helped them write the beautiful ballad, "I Believe In Love," which has gorgeous harmonies.

When I met Lloyd Maines last year, and what a nice gentleman he is, it got around to Natalie for a minute - no politics - but he did say that at Maines family barbecues around Lubbock many years ago, even at about age three, Natalie was a loud one - you always knew when she was around!

[Jerry Hayes R.I.P.]

I first became aware of them on the old Nashville Network long before Natalie Maines joined the group. They had a lead singer named Laura Lynch I believe, and she played upright bass and had the most beautiful eyes with sort of a squint to them but they really sparkled. The sisters canned her to hire Natalie as they wanted to go more into mainstream country and Laura was kind of a bluegrass/western swing combo singer. I remember the girls appearing in those days in outfits that brought back memories of Patsy Montana or Dale Evans. I later heard that Laura's husband won the lottery so she did OK after she left the group. I loved her singing but I don't think the Chicks would have reached the heights they have if they'd kept her so I guess it was a sound business decision.....JH in Va.

[Mark Eaton]

I remember those outfits, and the Laura days a little bit, and though I liked the look, I sort of remember thinking that they would have to change at some point, because eventually the novelty would wear off.

[Randy Phelps]

I came later.... I remember driving in the mountains near durango, co and hearing the first notes of the intro to "wide open spaces" and liking the guitar and then when the fiddle kicked I turned it on up and haven't turned them down since then. I like that they can play and they appear to love it....

I was only barely aware of the politics of the hiring and firing of band members, but having been in a few bands... I know lots of stuff leads to getting hired and fired, so I won't be too quick to judge on that one...

I had a similar experience last summer while in austin on business, I rented a mustang and decided to hit as many good bbq places as I could in 4 days and see as much music... but I heard that Sugarland song "Baby Girl" and even with the over compression... that is a great pop country song... I guess they have their internal struggles as well... but, boy, that is a hit song!

I don't usually like sugary pop stuff and tend to be an old fogey as to my tastes, but, shoot, a hit is a hit.

[David L. Donald]

Mark E. I do know of Wide Open Spaces.
It is a good song.

But what I meant is their change gave them a
MUCH wider market than just 12 mil
in modern country music sales.

And a good thing for then considering what happened
to their old primary market...

Their new sound diversified them greatly from a solid country act,
to a easy listening / bluegrass / mellow rock
AND country act. ie they crossed over
and will have longevity beyond most modern country acts IMHO.

Because thay are not depending on the tastes of one market to keep them going.

[Mark Eaton]

OK, David. Good points, since you elaborated on your earlier post - but the term "big break" to me has always indicated when one first scales the heights of success, and 12 million copies of the album "Wide Open Spaces" sure struck me as a big break!

[David L. Donald]

Certainly put them on the map.

And that I believe was because of an
earlier change of personell;
the original singer replaced by Natalie

This option may have been a clear move upwards.

Sometimes a band is almost there, but not quite.
How many like this have we seen?
Many in my experience.

A bit of tweaking and suddenly the whole
is better than the individual parts.
Even if a part that was awesome in many ways,
is replaced by a 'lesser' replacement in some ways,
the new element is more complimentary or
causes a new found freedom to create in the whole.

Replacing Tommy Nash may have been an example of the 2nd option.

[Dave Mudgett]

I also liked them a lot better with Tommy. Yes, he stuck out as a virtuoso, but my, was he tasty in that context. He was the leavening that made them interesting, to my tastes.

I'm in the awkward position of wanting to like a lot of this type of music - this goes to modern country in general - but sometimes have trouble when the rubber meets the road. Does the word "homogenized" make any sense?

With DLD's second option, I think they have definitely homogenized themselves into a generic modern country band. No sharp edges, very little steel guitar, nothing really hanging out that I can latch onto. I would much rather see bands take the route of bringing the rest of the band up to the highest point, rather than cut off the sharp edge that's hanging out. So obviously I disagree with David's take. It all comes down to personal taste, eh?

The only reason I would ever listen anymore is Lloyd Maines' presence, which there is nowhere near enough of, to me. I think a lot more of that could give them their musical edge back. All IMO, YMMV, blah, blah, blah...

[David Doggett]

The Chicks have such a huge audience, wouldn't it be great if they did showcase Lloyd's steel a little more and generate a little more interest in steel in their pop country crossover audience.

[Charlie McDonald]

Boy, I'd use Lloyd on every tune if he were my dad and all I had to do was ask.
But it seems what they showcased in Austin was a departure in progress, away from the country audience. No political implication here; Natalie always wanted to be a rocker, I hear, and she leads the band, in my estimation.

However, Lloyd played on the opening song, one of the newer originals, and it was great. Mr. Maines, playing in a newer genre, with plenty of room to experiment, would be a treat. He's tops for tone, in my book.

[David L. Donald]

I agree with the homoginization,
but not into a more generic country band,
but away from generic country bands.

If anything it is now more pop
with a country/bluegrass edge to it.
But that is the route to longevity and success.
For good or bad.

I suspect in the future,
there will be solo albums, and side projects,
and more changes in style. Both new and retro.
Once they have made such a pile they don't feel
they need to please anyone but themselves,
they will likely diversify again.


I also agree that Tommy Nash was a bigger loss
than his replacement a gain, in general.
I prefer hot picking too.

And the Lloyd should be showcased more.
For his chops and taste and for bringing
the steel to another generation of young people.

In the end, they had to re-establish themselves
in a newer market and not scare off the incoming potential fans. So dial in a fit to the market
and roll with it. Won't be the 1st, nor the last,
pro act to move with the times, and it's actual
situation on the ground.

It is in many ways a professional decision,
not made on an emotional level.
Remember at this level it IS a business 1st,
art and family second.

[David Doggett]

DLD, I'm not sure they are as commercially calculating as you make it sound. It seems to me that since Natalie joined them they have always played their own unique brand of pop/country/bluegrass/roots music. They seem to write and choose very interesting songs from their hearts that might not be a hit by anyone else, but that they raise to such a high selling level with their top level playing, and of course their looks, which is always a huge part of pop entertainment. Other than Allison Krause, who else is making pop/country/roots crossover hits with that type of music?

The Chicks are a really unique pop phenomenon in that they are not a singer backed up by anonimous sidemen, tracks, or studio pros, but actually do their own vocals, write or choose their own material, and play their own instruments, and do it all so well. I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here they are the only group I can think of who regularly have frequently played hits on the pop, country and college alternative stations. All that crossover is a big part of their success, and the reason they could weather it so well when they were dropped from so many country stations because of politics. Far from being the kind of commercially directed pop and country group we see so much of these days, they are the real deal - they play exactly what they want to, do it with heart, and do it with virtuosity, and they have struck a chord with the public that has made them a natural success rather than a commercially crafted one. I don't mean to gush. I don't even have all their CDs. But I am just struck by how well they do every aspect of what they do.

[Theresa Galbraith]

The gushing is what is amazing to me!:)

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

The gushing is what is amazing to me!:)

Theresa, the gushing is because of the reasons Dave mentioned. They ARE the real deal. They sing on pitch and play their own instruments. And in this era of manufactured plastic music, computerized backgrounds, out of tune signing electronically brought up to pitch, the lack of melody in hip hop and the mindless anger and total lack of any real musicality in what is called headbanger music, they are a refreshing change of pace.

[Theresa Galbraith]

Mike,
OK, you think they are the real deal. I think they aren't.