Live steel guitar: an impractical instrument?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 29 May 2007 3:26 am

I was reading the "bad for business" thread, and got to thinking. Guitarists, singers and even keyboard players can pretty much be all set up inside of a half-hour, and by that time start working on dialing in their tone. Bands are always waiting for the drummer and steel player to get "done", right? However, drums are necessary, at least for a conventional band.

Could this be a factor in the decline of steel's use? Bear in mind that an awful lot of producers, engineers, soundmen and bandleaders played in a band, in clubs, at one time or another in their career - might there be a residual hangover effect? Could it be that the time spent waiting for "that damn steel guitarist", or thoughts of that nature, might trickle over and poison musical considerations, even later in a less time-intense environment than one-nighters in a club?

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 29 May 2007 3:58 am

It takes me 10 - 15 minutes to set up and be ready to go... what the heck are you carrying?

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 29 May 2007 3:59 am

No, I can easily be set up and ready to go in 10 minutes or less. I can`t see any reason on stage or in the studio, that a steel guitarist can`t be ready as quick as anyone.
Hook

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 29 May 2007 4:01 am

Gee Whiz! I have never had that problem, I am usually there before anyone else, set up & ready to go way before the drummer!! I don't recall anyone ever waiting for me to set up. Now days, and at my tender age, I usually take a Single 10, & leave my 3 C6th licks back at my studio. I usually don't put mine in a case unless I am going more than 50 miles, that always saves me time. I keep one steel at my chruch so I don't have to keep 'draggin' it down each week. All I can say is, leave home earlier for your gigs!!

Ernie Pollock

http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 29 May 2007 4:10 am

I'm like "Mikey", I can set up and be ready in a short period. I don't need to "dial in my tone" - I have my basic setup and rarely have to deviate from that.

Jim Walker · Post by **Jim Walker** » 29 May 2007 4:10 am

At my current gigs I can hook up both my rigs (Guitar and Steel) tuned and be ready to play in 15 minutes.

Shorty Smith · Post by **Shorty Smith** » 29 May 2007 4:31 am

My steel has not been in the case in 3 years, it rides in the back of ny Expedition, so 10 mins and I'm ready. The guitar picker, in most cases, have to tune two or three time to get it right, so I can't see the point of complaining about the steel delaying the band, Shorty

Mike Archer · Post by **Mike Archer** » 29 May 2007 5:52 am

as both steel and lead player
i can have my rigs set up in about 15 mins
or split um up and be about 10 if i dont use both on the same gig

as far as i can see and as of those ive talked to
most all folks like steel
i think a lot of younger folks just dont know what it is or why its there......but if they ask i take time and tell um they seem to like it better
then TELL FOLKS WHAT THE STEEL IS

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 29 May 2007 6:20 am

Yeah I don't know what yer talkin about. Somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes after I walk in the door,I'm set up,tuned up,been to the bathroom,the bar and am ready to pick. Having a single neck keyless ax,one small amp(Steel King)no extraneous EFX and a Peterson tuner with all my offsets programed in,all help keep things moving.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 May 2007 6:26 am

Good try Dave..

I can set up in less than 1 minute
I never tune, it was in tune when I bought it
I don't have a "sound" so thats never been an issue
I take up less space than the Drummer
I know more phrases than the keyboard player
I can play Rock, Roll, Country and Western
I have my own car

I'm only serious...

This is one of the most ridiculous things I have read in a long time. If a club such as Legends wants to somehow limit Steel Guitars on there very small stage, then so be it. I seriously doubt it is about the music or the Instrument, it's probably about the money split per player.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 29 May 2007 6:52 am

This reminds me of the old joke about two guys hiking when they encounter a bear. One guy throws down his backpack and starts running. His friend says 'Hey! You don't really think that by throwing off that backpack, you can outrun a BEAR, do you?' to which he replies 'I don't have to outrun the bear. I only have to outrun YOU!'.

So the steel player doesn't have to be the fastest guy to set up in the band; he only has to set up faster than the drummer!

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 29 May 2007 7:03 am

It's not as easy as bass guitar, but most steel guitars set up pretty quickly. Even if I have it in the case, I can be up, connected and tuned in 15 minutes without breaking a sweat. It takes me as long to set up my marimba, what with the mikes and all.

I think that maybe some steel players hook up too many gadgets.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 29 May 2007 7:33 am

If I'm just playing steel, I only take a few minutes longer to set up a single PSG and amp than a guitar player takes to set up 1-2 guitars, and a lot less than a full-kit drummer. I know guitar players who take a very long time to set up 4-6 guitars and multiple amps - you know, Strat, Tele, Les Paul, 12-string, acoustic, slide, and so on - we're talking 20-40 minutes by the time they're all set up and tuning checked.

If I'm multi-instrumenting, it is sometimes more complex. In this case, it's a moot point because the people I play with specifically ask for multiple instruments, and it rarely takes more than 20 minutes to set up. I prefer to show up with one instrument.

I spent several days in the studio last week. I wanted to bring 1 or 2 steels, but the leader asked me to bring 3 - yes, 3 - for different textures. No problem whatsoever waiting for me to set them up and touch up the tuning, with two separate amp rigs. Took about a half hour.

I also take issue with this premise:

However, drums are necessary, at least for a conventional band.

I play a bunch of gigs with no drummer. They're not acoustic duos, but often 3-4 pieces, no drums. I guess it depends on your view of "necessary" and "conventional".

I think this falls into the category of "stereotypes" about the steel guitar.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 29 May 2007 7:44 am

Takes me about 8 minutes to set up and maybe 5 to tear down and be ready to hit the road.

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 29 May 2007 7:52 am

It usually takes me about 10 minutes to set up my D 10 and Walker Stereo amp. and a few minutes longer if I also set up my 10 string non pedal. I use it on some of the western swing songs. It's fun to stand up and play.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 May 2007 8:04 am

b0b wrote:I think that maybe some steel players hook up too many gadgets.

Bingo.

Oh yeah, and the "15 minutes to tune up" thing (give me a break). Tune anything that's obviously "out", and leave the rest alone. The end of the 1st set is a good time to get persnickety.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 29 May 2007 8:16 am

Well, I know that artists that carry live bands can't afford to have a steel player that gets outside of the sound they want, and with PSG that's more likely to happen. Can't say I blame them.

I started playing tele more than a year ago after 40 years of couch playing, and have just found a s#!tload more work because I can double.

Setup time? I dunno. About 15 minutes.

I think it's a cycle for now.

There's no new Lookin for Love, or Ricky Scaggs dance craze.

We'll see.

I hear Paul Simon's son Harper has an album in the works that might bring real classic pedal steel guitar to a new audience, if he gets Dad and Geffen to promote it..

EJL

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 29 May 2007 8:45 am

Donny Hinson wrote:

Oh yeah, and the "15 minutes to tune up" thing (give me a break). Tune anything that's obviously "out", and leave the rest alone. The end of the 1st set is a good time to get persnickety. Wink

"Out" ET or JI?

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 29 May 2007 9:04 am

I hear pedal steel guitar all over top 40 Country radio. Pedal steel is more popular in western N.Y. country than ever. There are six of us that I know of off hand playing regularly. I don't agree with the question at all. It takes me no longer to setup than anyone else. The P.A. takes over an hour. Everyone else not setting up the P.A. is mandated to show up at least an hour early to help with equipment and setup or don't be in the band.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 29 May 2007 11:09 am

Well, I don't think setup time has anything to do with whether people want a steel in the group or not. So maybe setup time is a ridiculous thing to discuss. But that never seems to stop us here on the Forum. So if we are gonna discuss it, I don't think people are being quite fair to Dave's point. Regardless of what your setup absolute time is on a stop watch, I can't believe anyone would argue that relatively speaking, pedal steel takes more time to setup than almost anything except drums. Sure multiple guitars and amps could take just as long. But for a single instrument, pedal steel setup time is right up there with drums and vibes. I'm thinking those 10 and 15 minute times mentioned above do not count load-in and car parking time. And yeah, you can play the first set without checking the tuning on 10 or 20 strings, but I've had some pretty bad first sets doing that.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 29 May 2007 11:45 am

Well Mr Doggett, the strings that are out, I merely have to adjust to my tuner, straight up. Emmonsonian™

The inclusion of Just, Newmannium, Mesopotamian, Franklinian, or orchestral temperaments, and the ramifications might stretch sixteen...

EJL

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 29 May 2007 11:49 am

David - if I'm playing just PSG, my load-in time is no longer than if I'm playing guitar. The only difference is PSG + drummer's throne vs. 2 guitars - everything else is exactly the same. It's heavier, but not longer.

In this scenario, the nominal difference is no more than 5 minutes, a total of 10-15 minutes vs. 5-10 minutes, plus the load-in time. That allows for actually setting up the steel and the difference in time to adjust tuning. In either case, something can go wrong - break a string, need to adjust something, or whatever. Realistically, the steel is less fault-tolerant - when something happens, it's harder to recover. But believe it or not, I'm more likely to break a guitar string on a wide bend than a PSG string.

It's not like this difference couldn't ever be an issue. I sometimes play multi-band shows where drummers share kits (minus snare), bass players and guitarists just bring their instrument and use a common rig, and there's 5 minutes between bands. I always have to set up my steel, throne, and volume pedal in advance. Then I either set my amp onstage ahead, really haul a$$ to set it up during the break, or use someone else's guitar rig (the Pod comes in real handy there). But that's the worst-case scenario. Usually, it's no issue at all.

One can decide to learn to do this fast or be a PITA. I guess if one takes the latter approach, it'll be a problem.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 29 May 2007 12:14 pm

By ear or by meter, straight up or otherwise, it's still 10 or 20 strings compared to 4 on bass or fiddle and 6 on guitar. And you got to screw in the legs, as opposed to no legs. Then sort out and hook up 3 to 10 pedal rods. Then turn the thing over and position it (I confess I usually skip all that by bringing my steel assembled). And if the floor is not even you have to adjust one or more legs. Then you have to clamp the volume pedal on and rig it up, even if you have no effects. If it's active you got to find a socket or outlet strip for the wall wart. If it's a pot pedal you might have a matchbox or have to deal with the 3-cord hookup. Then you got to setup your seat. And some of us play with amp heads and one or more speakers that have to be hooked up. Then you have to sort your picks out and put three or four of them on. Then you can check the amp settings and the tuning on the 10 or 20 strings. I never timed my setup separate from loading in, and car parking, and talking up the barmaid, and getting a beer, and knocking it over and getting another one, and visiting the John. But I do know I'm always the last to be ready except for the drummer, even if I approach it like a NASCAR pit stop.

Bobby Snell · Post by **Bobby Snell** » 29 May 2007 1:12 pm

File set-up time under the Logistics category. (Count the 2 trips outside to get gear.)

Usually the steel is the 5th piece. Can't fit the player or the gear in the mini-van. Small stage? Steel sets up on the floor.

And preparation area usually interferes with setting up the PA.

But, we're worth it!

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 29 May 2007 1:56 pm

Took me 1/2 hour to set up steel and guitar last Sunday, outdoors. Two minutes for guitar, 28 for steel!

Tuning was another issue, outdoors after all. Taking and playing 2 instruments is a PITA(pain####). JP

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Live steel guitar: an impractical instrument?

Live steel guitar: an impractical instrument?

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set up time

Logistics, logistics, logistics