Country Music Slump - Detectable Slumps in Other Genres?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 18 May 2007 2:07 pm

Commercial Country music seems to be stuck in a creative slump for the last ten years or more, especially song-wise. While I'm well aware of the fact that many underground Country artists are writing great music, for this discussion I am more interested in looking at what's right in front of our faces, and it's not good.

For this thread, I'd like to hear from those who have an extensive knowledge of different musicial genres and possible detectable time periods of inferior creative activity within them.

For instance, did Classical music see any creative slumps during the 18th and 19th centuries? Did Jazz have a hard time creatively anywhere in this century? I know that Rock sees its ups and downs, with the late 80's being one particular period of inferior song output.

Any thoughts? Do you just think music in general is deteriorating, or are some genres thriving?

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 18 May 2007 11:43 pm

I believe and teach that all musical styles follow a sawtooth graph when you plot quality against time.
It's just a matter of generational drift or regression to the norm.
Each era starts with an innovator, or more likely, the co-incidental arrival of a small group of innovators. The friendships and rivalries drive up standards, and the "new sound" moves into the mainstream. Other, lesser, artists copy the style, and the quality becomes diluted. The next wave of performers in the style,copy the second, and thus tend to set their highest ambitions on being second rate. (Heard the terms "close enough for jazz" or "good enough for folk"?- not always used ironically!).
So it drifts along until the next innovator kicks the graph up to the next tooth on the saw.
You can fill in the examples from any genre. Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie followed by a long tail of would-be-bebop noodlers.
Dylan, and his subsequent countless protest song singer wannabes.
Similarly in classical music there are Landmark composers, who made the big jumps, and a host of good, but derivative (OK "influenced by") followers. That is why we revere Bach, Mozart Beethoven etc above all others. They were the composers who started something new, and better.
You can do the same in Country, or even within Country styles, with Bluegrass or Western Ballads for example.
Cheers
Dave

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 19 May 2007 6:54 am

I can think of many great songs from the past decade or so that would belie this notion. The industry may be in a slump, but I don't believe it's from a lack of great material .....

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 19 May 2007 12:30 pm

Thanks Dave, for a very clear illustration. To
address Chris' concern about the music that is "in our faces", I believe the dominance of corporate
radio and their consultants is what has kept us in
the valley of the sawtooth for so long this time.

I participate in, and go listen to a lot of music, a
lot of it in small venues and I will testify that excellence is out there, you just have to seek it out.

If Bach,et al, had to compete today, they would
probably be marginalized because they could not
sell enough beer.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 May 2007 4:21 am

I think we're at an intersection of a few trends that make it harder for artists to know what to play. There's an evident decline in the literacy levels overall - there are millions of kids and young adults whose cultural references go back no further than "Star Wars" and Michaels Jordan & Jackson - Vietnam is a mythical era to them, and the fictitious Hannibal Lector resonates more than Charles Manson. If Disney hasn't made a cartoon of it, history is simply meaningless to them. What kinds of songs can you write, that will allow you to make a living? My baby left me, my baby loves me, umm, I'm anxious....

At the same time, I see a real stagnation in the form of songs - what exactly can you do with a 12-bar blues that isn't just another rewrite? You got your verse/chorus/verse construction, your narrative "storytelling" construction (this is a dying form due to attention-span deficit disorder), your stream of consciousness form - we're definitely in the valley of nostalgia right now, and as long as boomers with their unshakeable self-absorption own the radio waves, I don't see a big change coming. Another "wave" that happens is that the stupid old people die and the kids take over, unfortunately I'm firmly on the Stupid Old team this time around.

The attention-span problem is largely caused by television & the remote control, and overall media saturation in my opinion - the net effect is that ALL entertainment has to compete for immediacy and shock value. I have a few younger guitar students who are simply amazed by the idea that you can learn a guitar solo by playing along with a song, over and over, for hours on end - they think in increments of minutes, if not seconds. Even their schoolwork is designed with MTV-style "grabbiness" in mind - work sucks. What interests them? Sex, being "hot", being rich - there's your subject manner, writer....

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 21 May 2007 3:15 pm

Wow, enlightening points. It certainly is a reflection of society, I agree. Everything is becoming all about instant gratification. Hence quick, snappy, easy to digest tunes that last about as long on the charts as a Big Mac in a drive-through.

And it is true that every innovator is followed by a succession of imitators. Who do you think is the innovator being imitiated in country today? Garth, maybe?

erik · Post by **erik** » 21 May 2007 5:33 pm

I don't agree with the premise. Good songs, bad songs, and lame songs have existed throughout history of modern music across all genres. I'm not hearing your creative slump in Country music. I continue to find songs with interesting arrangements. There's enough subtle changes going on that I hear new things with each pass. What are you listening for when you hear a song?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 21 May 2007 6:10 pm

Erik, what I listen for in a song is a stately, evenly rhymed lyric that resonates with me emotionally, a sensible imstrumental approach that doesn't rely on gimmicks, and a melody that intertwines with an interesting, unpredictable chord progression that still retains a nice musical flow.

In my original post, I said that I was aware of the existence of great songs in the midst of the crap. However, the crap seems to be rising to the surface a lot in country these days. Can you say with any conviction that there was one "great" song played on the ACM awards last week? Even Brad Paisley's song was embarrassing, and he usually has something half-decent to offer. And if I hear one more reference to "Skynyrd" in a country song, I'm gonna puke. Maybe it's a matter of taste, but I'm not hearing much of any song-writing quality coming out of Nashville these days. I'm sure it's there, but it ain't getting played. For the most part, modern country music is lame-ass, cheeky word play that goes nowhere and says nothing. And even the attempts at serious ballads fall flat. I saw Tim and Faith a while back on Oprah, and they were singing the most contrived lyrical crap right into one another's eyes.....it was surreal in the worst kind of way. It's a slump, in my eyes.

Has there been a past period in country when the songs were as weak as they are today? If there is, I can't identify it.

In the immortal words of Tim Mcgraw:

I had a kechup stain on my white T-Shirt
She was killing me in that mini-skirt

Joe Butcher · Post by **Joe Butcher** » 21 May 2007 6:55 pm

Chris is right. Commercial country is trite, premeditated garbage. It's the musical equivelant of Burger King. Most of it sounds nothing like country, more like rock with a few country elements here and there.
But, as always, the underground is where good music happens. Check out The Derailers, Junior Brown, 1100 Springs, Wayne Hancock, Old 97s, Hank III, and so many more. Even guys like John Prine and David Allen Coe are still touring.
Support the artists you like. Ignore the ones you dont.

Things will change. People start to see through the phony plastic garbage and start to long for something with a little more substance.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 21 May 2007 11:48 pm

There is a lot happening in Texas Music. Many styles from NCS to traditional, bluegrass, Americana, Western swing. There were 2,100 bands in the SXSW event in Austin in March. (South by Southwest).

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 May 2007 3:32 am

I know I'm gonna get my head clipped, but music from roughly pre Civil War thru the 1970's was some of the best stuff, ever. I doubt any forth-coming era (ten years, say) will even begin to come close to the songs and melodies of this stretch of history.

From 1980 thru till now, there's not much to get hot and bothered about. IMHO.

When "(c)rap" fills the airwaves, and is actually called MUSIC - well, something in my mind goes, uh, HUH???

We are, now, at the lowest common denominator.

But, hey, IJMHO.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 22 May 2007 6:52 am

CHIP FOSSA wrote:I know I'm gonna get my head clipped, but music from roughly pre Civil War thru the 1970's was some of the best stuff, ever.

Chip, that's a pretty big window! Can'tcha narrow that down a bit?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 22 May 2007 7:44 am

There is a "quantity effect" that interacts with Dave B's sawtooth progression of music history. We easily remember the first few offerings of successful innovators and we easily remember the first few innovators, and those become "classics" partly because they are a few standing alone. As other artists jump on the same trend, more music and more musicians accumulate until it is too much to keep up with and remember. It doesn't matter whether the latter stuff is as good or better than the earlier stuff, it just all gets diluted in a wash of quantity. The same thing happens across all genres and back through musical history. Recording has made this problem worse. Before recording, people only hear what was currently stylish and being played live. Styles changed and stayed fresh. Now we have the whole range of music history available on our iPods and constantly playing to us on the radio, TV, movies, muzak in the super market, etc., etc. The sheer quantity of it all numbs us and makes it difficult for new trends to compete with the great mass of stuff already in our heads and stand out. It's a glorious time in that you can hear anything you want in any genre from any decade or century at any time. But it also makes us jaded and very difficult to impress.

Because of the greater difficulty in impressing jaded listeners, fast moving genres like jazz and rock quickly progressed to extremes. Jazz went from big band to bebob to cool to wildly dissonant and amelodic avant garde and free jazz. Where is there to go from there? Rock went from the original '50s rock'n'roll, to '60s rock, to disco and new wave, to metal, Goth, and punk (the rock version of free jazz). Where else is there to go? Jazz and rock use to change drastically at least every decade. Each decade's generation wouldn't be caught dead listening to music 5 or 10 years old. But free jazz and punk have lasted as the "new edgy stuff" for 30 or 40 years! Hunh?!? The only place to go is back to roots, which gives us the "post-modern" blend of no-longer-new stuff and old-stuff-with-a-twist (it's never exactly the same). Will we be stuck in post-modern limbo forever? Who knows?

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 22 May 2007 10:13 pm

Maybe the other genres just don't appear to be in a slump, because they don't have annual tacky award shows to show off their ridiculous inanities.
-John

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 23 May 2007 2:13 am

People start to see through the phony plastic garbage and start to long for something with a little more substance.

This is actually what concerns me. There are plenty of intelligent, skilled artists, but the masses of "people" - young "people" -don't seem to have many filters up to determine what is good from bad. It's all poured through a little box in the corner, with visual elements more important than narrative, musicianship, continuity, even plain sensibility (as opposed to insensibility). The common theme of a high percentage of country songs nowadays is "What a Redneck I am!", and "I'm, Like, So-oo Country!" - WHAT story?!?

"Substance", sincerity, genuineness, keeping it real are all highly marketable quantities, with signifiers designed to elicit the highest spike in brainwaves from each target audience. To Keep it Real in a rap video, the star is shown walking the street of the ol' hood, a gunshot! Hospital deathbed, dead homie in a hoodie etc. To Keep it Real in a country song, the signifiers of authenticity are a beat up ol' pickup truck, a baseball hat, worn blue jeans, a flannel shirt and Ol' Shep with his tongue lolling out - this "proves" your country singer isn't some slicked-up Hat 'n' Boot product of the vending machine. (Wiggling, busty bimbos help in each and every genre.)

OF COURSE there are still musicians writing the good stuff, but the riches of the machine are so very tempting - don't you think Sam Bush & Wayne Hancock ever look at a Big & Rich voideo and ask themselves, "Why am I working so friggin' hard?!?" All they have to do is turn themselves over to the media guys with tinty glasses and $200 spiky hairdos, fix their teeth and/or breasts, depending, check their integrity at the door and they too could be rich, rich, rich....

If you write a great song in the desert and there's no one there to hear it, is it still a great song (whispers the little demon in the ear, his little demon pockets stuffed with glittering gold.) Ooh - and it makes me wonder....

Joe Butcher · Post by **Joe Butcher** » 23 May 2007 5:57 pm

Joe Butcher wrote:Things will change. People start to see through the phony plastic garbage and start to long for something with a little more substance.

What i meant when I said that can maybe be explained thusly.

In the late 80s/early 90s, all the hair metal/glam bands that were kinda cool at one time started getting really lame and derivative. Along come three stoner dudes in thrift store clothes from Seattle called Nirvana. No big hair. No hot licks. No ballads. Just really memorable songs that seem to blend elements of punk, rock, metal and pop. Guitar solos that were free jazz feedback but it somehow fit the song and made sense. Suddenly theyre knocking the cheesy pop guys out of the charts.

For a while there, it seemed like raw, dirty rock and roll was back. Keep in mind that the "grunge" scene had been festering underground for quite some time before most of us were aware of it. (Of course within three years it got co-opted and homogenized, but what else is new. )

My hope is that the same thing happenns with country (not the co-opted part) Maybe people will get sick of Tim McGraw and Koby Teeth and all these other clowns. Theres a whole scene out there (especially in TX) of bands who have that old school sound, with steel and/or fiddle on every song and lyrics that dont sound like they were written to "appeal to demographic A" Bands that dont act like sneaky opportunists and use their music as a podium or pulpit to sell records. Bands that write songs and dont give a d@mn wether you like it or not.

Support these bands. Go see Wayne Hancock, 1100 Springs, Hank III, Jason Boland, Drive By Truckers, Junior Brown, et al.
Send a message to corporate country. "You stink and I will not support you!"

Bobby Caldwell · Post by **Bobby Caldwell** » 23 May 2007 6:19 pm

Ron, I couldn't agree with you more. The guys in Texas are hittn' the nail on the head. Great country music. Booby Flores, Jake Hooker, Darrell MCall, Justin Travino and the great Johnny Bush plus many many others are laying it down. They are carrying the torch for good country music. There are others that I have left out but Texas is giving the world some great music. Check out Heart of Texas Music for some great CD's and also Johnny Bush's web site for some great sounds. If I was a younger man I be right there with them. Keep it up guys we are listening. Bobby

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 23 May 2007 8:02 pm

Great thinking, guys. Like Joe, I hope that some band or solo performer will come along and sweep those guys under the rug where they belong. But a major label needs to have the guts to let a hot band be themselves. Big business does not take too kindly to independent-thinking rebels. Why do you think so many clowns are leading the pack now? Because they'll do anything to get their handsome mug on the TV, and record companies attach the strings for the puppet show, just like last week's ACM.

Real musicians are too much for corporate types these days. They do not have enough control over true talents who will not tolerate their bullshit. They'd rather buy the lesser talents some outfits that make them look like the real deal, then hope the public gets fooled. Trouble is, they do get fooled a lot of the time. Thank God there are some free-thinking music fans out there willing to support the underdog.

Walter Killam · Post by **Walter Killam** » 24 May 2007 9:53 am

I believe we are just beginning to see the results of removing Music & Art from public school curriculum. The point that kids are listening to junk without any critical response tells me that most listeners weren't exposed to enough music in their formative years to develop an opinion. This is extending to the industry as young execs rise to the challenge without enough background to test the limits of popular music. Todays country seems (to me at least)to be an extension of what I was calling progressive Rock & Roll in the 70s. As an example I offer Kenny Chesney who seems to keep writing the same song over & over again. (no offense to Kenny, a musician should make money while the makin's good!)

I also believe that we are seeing this expand to other realms outside of music, as Art & Music teach cooperation & problem solving, 2 areas the youths I encounter seem to be widely deficient in.

Solution? expose your children & their friends to music & art, encourage them to reach conclusions & think about why someone participates in the creative process. The current generation may be a hard sell, but it's worth trying to help them educate themselves.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 24 May 2007 3:10 pm

Country music in a slump or steel players in a slump trying to get gigs? If there's one thing I've noticed about new country, it's that bands don't really need steel guitar to perform the tunes live. I believe this all got started when Waylon Jennings got popular with his own brand of 'outlaw' country. Heck, I'm willing to bet that the song 'Good Hearted Woman' launched a million weeked country bands. And for a weekend country band all one really needs is a bassist, drummer, acoustic guitarist/lead singer, and a Tele picker.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 May 2007 5:21 am

I don't think you can sell much "good music" to the younger generation. Younger listeners have always preferred the less sophisticated (trashy?), fun-type and just plain different music. Whether it was "Eatin' Goober Peas" (during the civil war), "Hello Ma Baby" (in the 1890s), "Yes, We Have No Bananas" (in the '20s), the "Boop-Boop-Be-Doop" stuff (in the '30s), to the "I'm Just Wild About Harry" (WWII), and on through the "Doo-Wop" of the '50s, the "Bubble Gum", of the '60s, and so-on, young listeners (as a whole) never were worldly or discriminating. They just like it different, and fairly simple.

Before anyone slams me about saying young people aren't very sophisticated, let me say that there are exceptions (the eggheads?). But as a generality, most young people (25 and under) just haven't been exposed to anything but "peer music", what they hear on the radio, what their friends like. Older people, of most generations, have usually thought that the music their kids listened to was trash. Here's how the cycle goes...people tend to hold on the music of their youth, and their kids (wanting to rebel, to not like what their parents like), just have to choose something new and different. It's a never-ending cycle of major music shifts every 15-20 years. Each generation chooses and holds their music, the music they grew up with in those formative teenage years, as "the best music". If you grew up listening to rap music, and most of your friends liked rap music, it probably would be your favorite music!

Few "older" people want to like something really different, or try something really new and diverse, and nowhere is that more evident than at a steel show...or a Texas dance hall.

I spose that's why you don't see many 20 year-olds at either one!

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 26 May 2007 6:20 am

Give me bluegrass anyday.