Lap Steel/Archtop guitar amp advice please

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Jul 2006 3:45 am

I had a bar gig last night where I switched between the the lap steel, archtop and ukulele (miked) all night long.

I used the Roland Microcube for the steel and that proved useless in a non-mic'ed setting. I had to crank the volume to 11 and needless to say the tone "was lacking".

I switched to the Vox DR-5 battery powered amp for the rest of the night and the tone was "good enough". But plugging and unplugging the guitar and steel all night long and during songs was a real pain and very cumbersome on the postage stamp sized stage.

Here's what I want.

An amp that will allow me to plug in both the guitar and the steel at the same time - two channels. Each channel must be independent and have it's own set of EQ controls AND reverb. A footswitch to change channels. The amp should be around 20 lbs.

Suggestions?

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 09 July 2006 at 04:56 AM.]

Randy Cordle · Post by **Randy Cordle** » 9 Jul 2006 4:32 am

Playing multiple instruments in a performance situation is always problematic. My personal solution for this was purchasing a guitar multi-effects pedal and programming it to satisfy the requirements I have for each instrument. My choice of units was the Digitech RP200. One reason I chose this unit is that each preset can have its name programmed. I have separate user programs in sequential order and named "MUTE", "MANDO", "TELE", and "LAP". I have tailored each user program for the tone, volume, amp simulation, reverb, etc. that I want. (Its also nice to use the headphone output for late-night Missus-approved Jimi-style practicing!)
When switching between instruments (or during breaks) I select "MUTE" to silence all output for totally pop-free changeover.
I route the RP200 output to a DI box and use its output to feed the house PA and a smaller stage amp/monitor for me. I usually use a Peavey Minx 110 bass amp that I bought second-hand cheap and has been through lots and lots of gigs. Works fine, lasts long time!
At venues that I know in advance will have stage monitoring I sometimes don't even set up a monitor amp for myself and have the sound guy run me through the monitors.
This may not be the ultimate solution for you, but it sure has uncomplicated my life!

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 9 Jul 2006 5:12 am

You could get an acoustic amp and use the vocal channel for one of the instruments. Plugging 2 instruments into one amp is not recommended.
There are also switchers you can buy where you can plug up to 3 instruments in and footswitch between them.

Thomas Ludwig · Post by **Thomas Ludwig** » 9 Jul 2006 5:40 am

Gerald,
I also play archtop and lap steel guitar on stage.
For gigs I use the AER Compact 60 amp.
It has the features you want.
2 channels, eq, reverb, DI Out, around 17 lbs.
It sounds warm and clear, okay the low end is not like a 15" speaker.
Not cheap, but I would buy it again.
Thomas

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Jul 2006 7:08 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Not cheap, but I would buy it again.
Thomas <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Thomas, I looked it up on-line. That amp sells for $999. A little too much for me.

Keep the ideas coming folks!

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 9 Jul 2006 9:00 am

Here's what I'd do with limited budget. Get two Peavey Envoy 110 amps (weight around 14 lbs each, price used around $125. each, an A/B box $50. and you are done

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 9 Jul 2006 10:15 am

Hi Gerald-- I use the little Vox DA5 myself,for rehearsal & practice (the 'Cube has been traded away). What I would suggest is that you look into its 30-watt big brother, the Vox AD30VT. It has all the bells & whistles of the DA5 and then some (like switchable power, from 30w down to 1w), plus a tube circuit with at least one actual tube. Though it doesn't have two instrument inputs, it has two programmable channels which you can toggle between manually, or with optional footswitch. You could set up your basic guitar and steel sounds on the two channels, then fine-tune the tone using the instrument's controls.

You'd want an AB/Y box (Morleys are pretty good) to switch between the instruments. The AD30VT itself weighs 26 lbs and will run you around $240. Add in the optional footswitch for channel selection and you have a very giggable setup for about 3 bills.

The main singer in one of my bands just got one of these for rhythm guitar. I've only heard it once-- though it has some quite righteous overdriven sounds which will probably not tempt you, it has the same kinds of clean amp models as the DA5-- but the clean tones are improved by the larger (10") speaker and the tube presence.

Anyway, this thing is easy enough to research on the Vox site. If you have any questions, I'll be able to check it out further this coming Wednesday.

--Steve

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Jul 2006 12:02 pm

So far the Vox route looks the best in terms of versatility and price.

Steve, how easy is it to set the two channels in memory? Are the settings retained after you power-down the amp?

I like the DA-5 but hate it's looks. This Vox 30 has the same asthetics... oh well.

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 9 Jul 2006 2:47 pm

Gerald, I agree about the looks-- totally lacking in the tres-chic car battery mojo of the Microcube. But the bang-for-the-buck is so great I'm thinking about getting the AD30VT myself. It looks like, using the "Manual" setting, you can actually get THREE instantly accessible preset sounds, which could come in handy considering that if you wanted to change the amount of reverb or delay, you'd otherwise have to futz with the effects controls on the amp between tunes.

As to your questions, I'm pretty sure the answers are "real easy" and "yes"...but I'll look into it Wed. night. If you want info sooner, my friend got his amp from Sweetwater, and they've got great customer service-- a phone call to them would be productive, I'd bet. Plus I think you still know folks at Elderly...but though they offer the amp, it seems to be out of stock 'til the end of the month.

By the way, thanks for your original thread pointing me to the DA-5...it's much better for my purposes than the MC.

--Steve [This message was edited by Stephan Miller on 09 July 2006 at 04:43 PM.]

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 9 Jul 2006 3:20 pm

I like the DA-5 but hate it's looks.

Gerald, couldn't you just dress it up (best case scenario) or "camouflage" it (worst case scenario).

See you Wednesday at Aloha International.

Aloha,

Don

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Jul 2006 3:48 pm

See you Friday - late morning, Don. I have another gig with the Continental Islanders this Thursday night.

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Jaime Miller · Post by **Jaime Miller** » 9 Jul 2006 5:04 pm

Gerald,

I have the AD30VT and it works well. The programmable 2 channels are great. When you do your sound check and get the volume, tone, etc., set, program it to a channel and your done. When you switch to that channel, it will remember all your settings, including volume. To program, your push the Write button, push the Channel button to select one or two, and push the Write button again. You’re done. The amp remembers the settings when you power it back on.

I purchased mine from here:
http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/shopping/index.htm

If you go to the VOX section, go into Vox amps and parts, and scroll down to Valvetronics Series. There will be a Vox AD30VT with Brown or Black grill cloth. Click on that and you can buy a AD30VT with real grill cloth. Much better looking.

I played one in a store and bought from North Coast because they will install the VOX cloth for about what you save on the taxes. Shipping is free. I received my amp in three days.

You can buy the cloth and do it yourself as well, if you’re handy with that sort of thing.

The down side of the amp may be the speaker, as mine broke up on the bass side a little to easy. I put in a Celestion G10 and it sounds much smoother. They run about $100 with shipping.

Hope you find what you’re looking for.
Jaime
[This message was edited by Jaime Miller on 09 July 2006 at 06:13 PM.]

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 9 Jul 2006 6:16 pm

Jaime-- Cool tip about the grill cloth. So, what instrument/tuning caused the original speaker to break up?

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 10 Jul 2006 7:24 am

I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb reissue. It has two channels. Typical of Fenders, the first channel has no reverb, the second does.

Why can't I plug my archtop guitar into channel 1, and the steel into channel 2?

Do I risk damaging the amp by having both channels "active" at the same time. I could turn the volume down on the instrument that is not being used.

If I need reverb on channel 1 I could buy a cheapo DanElectro reverb pedal.

What do you think?

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Kevin Brown · Post by **Kevin Brown** » 10 Jul 2006 7:56 am

Check out the crate limo, 30 watt re-chargable
2 guit cahnells , i mike channel, great effects with send amount to both channels, good overdrive channel and 'acoustic' channel.
Dont buy anything till you have tried it, you have been warned, also serves as mimi PA, speaker stand mount, tape in l/r I could go on but me totally wasting my time as I think Im the only guy who acclaims these on the board, most go for roland/vox etc, once tried guaranteed sold ! and no I dont work for em, great busking amp that CAN BE HEARD !!

Ron Simpson · Post by **Ron Simpson** » 10 Jul 2006 9:37 am

Aloha Gerald

The Deluxe Reverb sounds like a perfect solution for the scenario that you described. The two channels were designed for two instruments in the "olden days", and won't cause any damage. I have a Fender Deluxe (blackface, no reverb) that I like to use a Digitech Digiverb with. The spring reverb setting even sounds good to an old guy like me. You might be over the twenty pound limit that you set, but not by too much. See you in Winchester.
[This message was edited by Ron Simpson on 10 July 2006 at 10:39 AM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Jul 2006 9:47 am

Gerald, it is possible to do a mod to the amp and have reverb in both channels.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 10 Jul 2006 11:48 am

I have a 65 deluxe and I love it for guitar, it's all I use on stage. I hate it for steel and would get a used powerful transister amp for cheap for steel, they're all over the place. Plus, you have an extra amp to plug into if something goes wrong with one of the amps?

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 10 Jul 2006 12:41 pm

Use the Deluxe Reverb with an A/B switch. It's what I use to switch between steel and guitar. If you need reverb on both channels there is a fairly simple mod for that.

Bill

PS Jesse - I don't know how you can say the Deluxe Reverb doesn't sound good with a lap steel, unless you are trying to play loud and clean. But for moderate volumes the clean is superb and turn it up for scream.

Jaime Miller · Post by **Jaime Miller** » 10 Jul 2006 1:38 pm

Stephan,

I have a Casino Elitist and a Gretsch 6122SP Country Classic, and both could break-up the bass at moderate levels. A friend has a AD30VT and his speaker went out and it was replaced under warranty, so maybe mine was on the way to being bad. My Tele was not to bad. My B6 did not cause a problem either.

Jaime

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 10 Jul 2006 1:58 pm

Bill, it might have something to do with my Magnatones? All I know is, side by side with this 50 watt used Yamaha hybrid amp from the late 70'($100.00), the DR sounds kinda thin no matter how I crank up the bass and turn down the treble. I don't like to play too loud and I use the DR as a yardstick for over all loudness.

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 10 Jul 2006 3:26 pm

Jaime, I'll pass on your advice about the Celestion to my friend. I wonder if hotter-wound pickups could be responsible for the breakup...

Gerald, Bill, Jesse-- I thought Gerald was looking for an amp in the 20 lb. neighborhood. I've never owned a Deluxe Reverb, but aren't they somewhere between 40-50 lbs?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 10 Jul 2006 3:46 pm

How 'bout two Microcubes ... into a mid-sized Peavey solid state (as a "slave") ...

With a foot-switchable A/B connector ...

------------------

Hawaiian Steel Stuff
The Casteels

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 10 Jul 2006 6:06 pm

I was looking for a new amp in the 20 lb range, then I balanced my checkbook.

I'm going to make do with the Fender.

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

CEO, CIO, CFO - UkeTone Records
Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 10 Jul 2006 6:19 pm

Excuss me, I didn't see the 20 lb limit. If you have a nice arch top, I would think the tone coming out of it would be what I would try and get right first.