Downloading: The death of the CD?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Apr 2007 3:32 am

There's an article in today's New York Times about how the record companies' policies have actually been driving people away from their products and towards more downloading:
Spinning Into Oblivion
It's written by owners of a former, stand-alone music store.

The sad thing is that CDs and downloads could have coexisted peacefully and profitably. The current state of affairs is largely the result of shortsightedness and boneheadedness by the major record labels and the Recording Industry Association of America, who managed to achieve the opposite of everything they wanted in trying to keep the music business prospering... those labels delivered the death blow to the record store as we know it by getting in bed with soulless chain stores like Best Buy and Wal-Mart. These “big boxes” were given exclusive tracks to put on new CDs and, to add insult to injury, they could sell them for less than our wholesale cost.

The article somewhat discounts us old, lowtech guys who would rather listen to an entire CD on a different system while our computer is turned off and don't really want to spend the time re-recording things to exclude tracks that aren't necessarily so bad for us, but they do make a point - the corner music store is dying.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 6 Apr 2007 4:04 am

At the same time there is a rise in the interest of LPs, also among young people - vinyl is suddenly "cool" again.
Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I don't think the idea of the album will die. The majority of sales may very well be downloads but I believe the album will survive, but perhaps only as a niche market product for those of us with an 'above average' interest in music.
Exclusively downloading individual songs would almost feel like dl'ing individual scenes from movies and putting them together as you wish...

Steinar

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 6 Apr 2007 8:31 am

The CD, or album in some hard form, won't die until Microsoft, Dell and the other powers that be deliver solid data backup and data migration capabilities into their OS and computers.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 6 Apr 2007 11:23 am

I'm a music collector. A collection of downloaded tracks would essentially be worthless. My LPs and CDs comprise a unique and, I think, valuable collection of historical artifacts.

Bits on a disk are just bits on a disk. A CD includes printed material that has an origin in space and time. Eventually, they'll be selling music online that actually sounds good, but it doesn't matter to me. I want a real product in my hand and on my shelf. I want to sit in my easy chair and real the liner notes as I listen.

Also, computer speakers suck.

Delvin Morgan · Post by **Delvin Morgan** » 6 Apr 2007 11:34 am

B0b,

I have my computer connected to a home stereo system, with 300 watts, and 12" 3 way speakers. Sounds great.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 6 Apr 2007 1:33 pm

If your view of music is that it's a disposable form of entertainment, then downloading makes more sense because you are not adding to the "trash load" at the local land fill. Or maybe you just want less stuff in your life, I can certainly appreciate the convenience of the Ipod, but perhaps because I bought albums in the 50's and 60's, in particular, I like the experience of being able to hold it in my hands and read the details while it's playing, except when I'm driving on the freeway...

I just noticed that b0b does too....

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 6 Apr 2007 1:56 pm

Many of my CD's are scratched beyond repair. Same with LP's. They are difficult to get, organize, and find what you want.

I've been transfering all my CD's and LP's over to Apple Lossless format. I'm almost done.

I just bought a AppleTV so I can stream all my collection to my stereo with my 5 foot magnoplaners. The sound of the apple lossless format coming in off the AppleTV is flawless. I could not tell the difference between it and a CD if you put a gun to my head. If I'm interest in reading the jacket, I can go to were I stored the CD and look, or better yet, search online from my wireless laptop.

I don't miss CD's. And once they have a better selection, I won't buy any more DVD's either. The quality of the picture of a movie or TV show downloaded from Itunes and streaming through AppleTV is DVD quality, without the hassles of empty boxes and DVD scattered every where. I'm won't miss CD's or DVD's and as soon as I can, I'll never use those mediums again.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Apr 2007 3:32 pm

Didja ever think that maybe the music is becoming "throw away"? Just a thought...

Just fired up the XM receiver after a short hiatus. The quality of XM-13 has deteriorated substantially. Sibilance on the highs is the norm now... Must be people are satisfied with 20 db dynamics...

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Apr 2007 1:49 am

I've been toying with the notion that our culture is quickly losing the collective ability to filter out what's good from what's simply representational signifiers. Like, you see a loud fat guy acting stupid on TV and it's just assumed that he's genuinely funny because Ralph Gleason and John Belushi were loud, fat and acted stupid. Movie directors like Quentin Tarentino and bands like the Squirrel Nut Zippers and Big & Rich are blending mockery, kitsch, self-contempt and camp into an impenetrable mass of crap, and no one can tell the difference. Country "artists" are country because they tell you that they are and there's no such thing as phoniness anymore - even as recently as the 90's, heavy metal fans earnestly debated who was and was not a "poser".

I (tried to) watch a jazz concert on PBS from the Thelonius Monk Institute, it was just too awful to bear. Clark Terry was on stage though he's too old to play except little squawks, they had three "soulful" ladies all swaying around singing "I Got Rhythm" totally badly, it was ALL about the package "jazz" and NOTHING about the content. I guess it's a result of television solely owning the right to tell us what's real and important - now that "Gilligan's Island" is fine art and Britney Spears is an "artist", what's not to like about anything & everything? Just download the ten most popular songs every week, and you'll be sure you're getting the best. I cringe when I hear the phrase "pop genius"....

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 7 Apr 2007 2:49 am

even worse, at some point the death of downloading will occur..

I am a member of Rhapsody, I pay my $9.95/month.

I listen and record everything of interest with my Edirol R-1 thru the PC. ( MP3/Wave recorder) I transfer the songs or CD's I like back to the PC thru USB and burn them to CD from there.

Generally Rhapsody will have most if not ALL of the new CD releases on the site either the day of release or shortly after. I listen, I decide if it is worthy. If it is a great CD such as Vince's 4 CD set, I buy it. IF it's just ok, I record a few songs or, just move on to the next artist.

A week or two back, Daryl Worleys new CD came out, my wife was gonna buy it then remembered she can listen first. She listened,...once...NO SALE..no nothing...it is not even close to the earlier CD's..which had blazing Steel Guitars all thru them.

This week we listened to Martina's new CD, jury is still ot on the PURCHASE. I did record and burn most of the tunes and we are listening to it, if we decide we like it we may buy it, not sure yet.

by the way, the reason we would buy it is to support the artist, the quality of the recording from the PC is as good if not better than the CD. We buy maybe 6 CD's a year, we just don't want to buy one and never listen to it ever again. I already have a closet full of those.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Apr 2007 5:24 am

I agree that the corner record store is dying. In this big-university town, we lost one of our two last year, and I don't know how the other continues strictly brick-and-mortar. I think an independent has to have large city access, or have significant online and/or mail-order business to survive at selling hardcopy records in any format - CD, vinyl, whatever. Princeton Record Exchange, Amoeba, places like that, seem to be thriving. No doubt Joe Goldmark can shed more light on this than anybody here.

I think - right now - music is a throwaway item for the bulk of the society. But I'm not convinced this is heading down the drain. I think two trains of though are emerging among younger people - either musically oriented like boomers, or not. No point worrying about the "not" group. The group to market to, IMO, is the musically oriented one. It's not as big a market as it was 10-20 years ago, but that change has happened already, and I think it's either stabilized or is on the upswing. Remember - just one percent of the population is still 3 million people - who says you can't make money marketing to a few million people instead of a hundred million? Yeah, the halcyon days of great music for the masses are largely at an end, but that doesn't mean music is dead. One needs to re-scale to the current economics.

I think the backup issue Ron Page brings up is important. I have seen several students completely lose several years worth of music when a hard drive or Ipod crashes. It is just bits on a disk, the storage media can be unpredictable. Further, planned obsolesence in the computer biz is endemic and will force everyone to reformat every so often - not a trivial task if you have a lot of non-throwaway music. Vinyl LPs are the most fault-tolerant medium I've ever seen, and I note that cool vintage records still bring good prices. I'm happy to have digital formats for convenience, but I don't ever plan to sell the analog base. All IMO, of course.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Apr 2007 5:43 am

Well, personally I like both Quentin Tarentino and the Squirrel Nut Zippers (although I didn't know they were still around) and I would hardly rate their work as crap. I'm going to try and get to Grind House this weekend.

But I would highly recommend Emusic. I was an early subscriber so I get 90 songs a month for $19.95. It has no songs by major label, but if you are a jazz fan, or bluegrass fan, or fan of more eclectic stuff, it is a gold mind. I've downloaded the complete Riverside recordings of Monk, Wes Montgomery, Bill Evans. I'm in the process of downloading all the Pepper Adams stuff. Already downloaded all the albums by Seldom Scene and Rarely Herd.

And if any thing goes wrong with your harddrive, you can always redownload everything at no charge.

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 7 Apr 2007 6:43 am

"Didja ever think that maybe the music is becoming "throw away"?"

Did you ever think that everything that we 40 plus geezers grew up with and value and admire and have respect for is becoming "throw away"?

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 7 Apr 2007 7:37 am

Bill McCloskey wrote:
But I would highly recommend Emusic. I was an early subscriber so I get 90 songs a month for $19.95. It has no songs by major label, but if you are a jazz fan, or bluegrass fan, or fan of more eclectic stuff, it is a gold mind. I've downloaded the complete Riverside recordings of Monk, Wes Montgomery, Bill Evans. I'm in the process of downloading all the Pepper Adams stuff. Already downloaded all the albums by Seldom Scene and Rarely Herd.

I'm curious - do these dl sites offer the same detailed info as an album cover? I'm thinking of musicians, engineers, producer, date, etc etc - all that stuff that matters to us 'nerds' (plus, as a freelance/session musician I insist on being credited for my work).

Steinar

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 7 Apr 2007 7:45 am

I'm sure someone else wrote this on the Forum, but mainstream music (and its unsigned practitioners) has become more of a gateway for selling tangibles like perfume, clothing, alcohol, etc. I wouldn't say it's a "throwaway", but it's more like a loss-leader item, teaser, slogan, or trademark. And I'm not exactly prone to conspiracy theories, but I don't think that the corporations who market those items are sweating over downloads. More downloads mean more potential customers in the 15-28 year range who will associate that song with a particular product. Maybe there's some kind of profit-sharing scheme (aside from synch licensing) that record companies and the above-mentioned corporations engage in.

I read that South By Southwest (in Austin) has become evident of this trend with increased corporate sponsorship. "Levis", the blue jeans manufacturer, supposedly had a pretty big presence in a few of the band showcases. John Nova Lomax is the music editor for Houston's entertainment rag (Houston Press) and he said when he left the showcase, he found himself wanting to buy a pair of jeans on display there.

So I don't know if recording labels would die, but it wouldn't surprise me if downloads make it possible and cheaper for other corporations to start their own Music/Marketing divisions. Instead of hoping to become "signed" by a label, musicians and bands could end up becoming employees (fashionable jingle-writers) of companies like Coca Cola, Chevrolet, etc. Maybe Orwell wasn't too far off.

Dave, what you described about the death of brick & mortar stores is true here as well. Cactus Records was one of our prized local stores that featured showcases from local and out-of-town bands, had a great assortment of eclectic music and other collectibles, but they cited downloads as a main reason for closing. And they had been here 30 years. Some other stores like Soundwaves sell beach apparel and surfboards as an extra source of revenue.

Yes, that was long-winded. Sorry. The end result is that CDs have become more like personal "calling cards".

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Apr 2007 9:30 am

yeah not like the old days when we had Monkey's lunch boxes and beatles wall paper.

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 7 Apr 2007 9:39 am

Good point, Bill. I guess merchandising was around even in the days before they invented color...

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Apr 2007 10:16 am

Maybe Orwell wasn't too far off.

Yup, and 1984 was 23 years ago. The chickens have definitely come home to roost. Real music has definitely been marginalized to a large extent. But that just means it needs to be an "underground" phenomenon again - uhh - I think that's what we called it in the late 60s, eh? Maybe it's better that way. It seems to me that every time the "mainstream" gets ahold of someone else's good idea, they milk it to the point that it's dead. Perhaps we should stop worrying about that kind of "success" and stay under the radar.

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 11 Apr 2007 10:16 am

iPod will kill off the CD

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 11 Apr 2007 12:02 pm

Yes and good riddence. The CD was and is a lousy mechanism to store music. The original idea that it sounded better and was indestrutable was a joke. The only thing indestructable is digital download with proper backup mechanism. I'm currently digitizing all my CD's on to my computer to play through my Apple TV and I can't tell you the percentage that just don't play anymore because of scratches to the CD. At least of an LP was scratched you could still play it, but with a CD, no way.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 11 Apr 2007 2:27 pm

To me a truly scary idea is that music is now just one more thing in direct competition for how people spend their time. It's not downloads vs. CD or LP, it's any kind of music at all against video games, the internet, DVDs, talk radio... all in the soup. I didn't even put reading in there because no one reads these days. (Book? rectangular stack of paper. that's *paper*. you remember, the flat white stuff).

Does anyone actually sit down and really listen to music now? I don't want to sound like an old fart, but I do remember friends getting together and listening to a whole side of "Highway 61 Revisited" without A SINGLE WORD SPOKEN.

-eric

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 11 Apr 2007 2:37 pm

Every evening I try and sit down, put the head phones on when everyone goes to bed and I put on some music.

Last sunday my 16 year old son was asking about John Coltrane so I played him the entire Love Supreme album, in it's entirety and we listened without a word spoken. I'm actually finding that my Apple TV which gives me the ability to instantly stream any music off my collection has really added to the amount of time I spend listening to music.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 11 Apr 2007 3:26 pm

Dave Mudgett wrote:
Vinyl LPs are the most fault-tolerant medium I've ever seen.

I have records too, but I can no longer put up with the 'pop pop crackle crackle'.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 11 Apr 2007 4:04 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:
Last sunday my 16 year old son was asking about John Coltrane so I played him the entire Love Supreme album, in it's entirety and we listened without a word spoken.

Thank you Bill; it's nice to know that people can still take the time to be touched by music.

-eric

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Apr 2007 4:49 pm

I have records too, but I can no longer put up with the 'pop pop crackle crackle'.

Personally, I find the pops and crackles far more preferable than a "FILE NOT FOUND" message pop-up.