The long road ahead-Can we bring real country back.

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 19 Feb 2007 9:05 pm

Eric,
IMP - You bring up a couple of good points:

"Oh Brother" sold over 5 million largely because the female movie goers thought George Clooney was singing the songs.
Yes, it did help to expose the music to a new generation but
George as we know has been voted as one of the top male movie stars of our time - I don't think because of his acting.
Enter CD sales. The music hasn't remained on the same level it reached while the movie was out.

As far as stations playing songs programmed like your iPod shuffle feature, there are currently some stations like that. In some markets they are call; Jack-FM or Dave-FM and promote the fact they "play whatever they want to". These stations are not making a large impact in the markets their in.

News was released just today that XM and Sirius are going to merge as one company. Read what you want to into that but its not because they are such big friends. There is trouble brewing with Sat radio and this is an attempt to fix.

Clear Channel is selling off many of their stations below market 100 and the real competition will be from cell phones that already offer: Phone; internet; email; itunes; video on demand etc...as soon as they can get a battery to last a very long time and storage (and they will) this will be the only thing people will need to stay connected while on the go thus making radio /TV/Video stores/and yes even sat radio a thing of the past.

All programming will originate from the cell phone company and you'll be able to download from the unit to any home style device or your computer.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 19 Feb 2007 9:11 pm

""Oh Brother" sold over 5 million largely because the female movie goers thought George Clooney was singing the songs. "

Oh, I'd disagree with this. It sold 5 million copies due to a brilliant marketing campaign by T-bone Burnett and his inspired use of Public radio. Plus it didn't hurt to have a very catchy tune performed the AK band. The use of National Public Radio to market that music was quite something and quite deliberate. George Clooney had nothing to do with it.

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 19 Feb 2007 9:32 pm

Bill,
This may be more accurate:

Luke Lewis of Mercury Records/Nashville did not attribute the album's high sales to marketing, and said that Disney ("O Brother's" distributor) considered the movie a "rural thing with a rural soundtrack," when in fact most sales went to urban consumers.
Where publicity for the soundtrack did succeed was on CMT. Lewis said a film clip featuring George Clooney was released as a video.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 19 Feb 2007 9:39 pm

Marlin,

VERY good point about cell phones. Hadn't thought of it. Too bad, too, because the audio quality of most mpgs is terrible, and high quality audio may require more bandwidth than cells have available. Didn't know about XM/Sirius, but you're right that it doesn't bode well for them.

But how will people discover what to download? If I was a full-time gigging musician, I'd be flogging myspace and building up my email fan lists as fast as possible. And make recuiting more members a priority at every gig ("sign up and well send you nice updates on what the band's doing and discounts on valuable prizes"

).

-eric

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 19 Feb 2007 10:08 pm

Eric,
You are correct in how a musician should be gathering data for their fan base. As far as what will people know what to download…that’s still a good question, here are some issues to ponder; XM has various formats, a lot of them that are ‘niche’ orientated but they have found an audience and since XM is subscriber based, it doesn’t matter if 3 or 3,000 people listen to one of its channels or all of them, the advantage for XM is; they offer all this eclectic music and formats.

If you have a band and know how to market yourself through the Internet, you’ll be ahead of the curve and people will find you, without radio airplay. Brent Mason – Nashville session player has his new CD on his myspace page, bypassing the record company and marketing completely. He can make more money for his efforts this way in the long run, have more control and without selling his sole to the devil for it. I have nothing but respect for Brent and his brother Randy for their musicianship and business smarts.

People spend a lot of time on the Internet and they will find the music they like weather its on a local radio station, Internet radio station or on a myspace account.

People are now getting their news information more from Blogs everyday because they get to comment on it and its only going to grow. Local Newspapers are starting to feel the pain as people quit buying newspapers because they can get the news they want from their computer. Much like the US Postal service lost business because of email.

As technology grows, so will the opportunities for the average Joe to make an impact for themselves without the big conglomerates to deal with. It will take time and dedication but if Oh Brother can sell 70,000 units 6 weeks in France before the movie was released…maybe you can too? It can be an exciting time for musicians that realize the concept of the digital age.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 19 Feb 2007 10:29 pm

Getting back to the original question, "can we bring back real country"?

What do you mean by 'real country'? Country music with lots of steel guitar in it?

If that's the case, if this was the accordion forum one could ask "can we bring back polka and old time dance music?"

Are we worried about the supposed decline of a genre of popular music or are we worried about the declining popularity of our instrument?

David Collins · Post by **David Collins** » 20 Feb 2007 5:17 am

I guess I'm joining the conversation a little late, but I'd like to address a couple of things that Herbie Meeks has said.

As a manufacturer of products for retail sale, I am a radio advertiser who happens to be a HUGE country music fan and a hack pedal steel player. My perspective may be a little different.

I have indeed sponsored radio shows that play "classic country". I still sponsor one each week. We spend approx $250.00 per week to sponsor this show. For this we get our pre recorded 60 second message played once during the show and an ad lib from the host for an additional 60 to 90 seconds.

This is on a "locally owned" station, is very effective at getting the listener to consider our product.

Based on our experience, this is also the exception to the rule when looking at dollars spent advertising compared to the number of units sold in most markets. Like it or not, it is the 18-35 demographic that responds to radio advertising by actually spending money on the products advertised.

So I listen to the classic shows, but spend my advertising money on other shows. I hate it, but it is business.

FWIW, I-Pods and Mp3 players are making radio more obsolete as an advertising medium every day. I'm not sure what the future holds for advertisers, but we're going to have to get really creative to catch the attention of potential customers.

Country music is going to have to do the same thing. It really doesn't matter what you're "selling", you have to KNOCK OVER the potential customer with something that He/She is interested in, not just what you happen to like.

All of the above are opinions and experiences from me and me alone. I do not intend to represent any specific research or market studies.

Can't wait for the work day to be done so that I can go home and sit at my Emmos PP and play way to survive!

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 20 Feb 2007 7:41 am

IMO, Oh Brother, was portraying, A Lot Of History, about Country Music, that younger generations had never been exposed to, Don't know how to explain this, Opinion.
This movie probably sold tons of Accoustic Instruments
to our younger generations.

Herbie[/quote]

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 20 Feb 2007 7:46 am

Haven't learned to use the '" Quote "

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Feb 2007 8:39 am

Here is an interesting article on the marketing of Brother Where Art thou:

Country radio's refusal to play "I Am a Man of Constant Sorrow," Grady said, became the subject of many articles. "Ironically," Irwin added, "it might have sold more records because of their refusal than if they had played it."

Morris explained how his presence on the soundtrack album had helped raise awareness for her client, bluegrass patriarch Ralph Stanley. Although she was working with Stanley before the movie got under way, she noted that his involvement with it assisted in generating articles about him in such non-bluegrass outlets as Rolling Stone, Spin, Mojo and The New Yorker. She said the film and soundtrack have had a "multiplying effect," by which the activity of one artist tended to spotlight all the others. Another plus, she said, was that the movie had such a long set-up and promotional time that it gave the artists a long period of exposure.

"No one was coming at it from a financial angle," Stiff-Sheehan said of the album. "It was all for the love of the music."

Grady said that many reporters who wrote about the album knew so little about the music and the musicians that they relied heavily on those involved to guide them, clearly a publicity plus. Because Mercury Records is a major mainstream label, Grady pointed out that he felt he had to persuade the bluegrass industry early on that the album wasn't an "outsider project," in which his label would skim the money and run. One of his first moves toward credibility, he explained, was meeting with Irwin and others at Rounder to tap into their years of bluegrass expertise.

According to Grady, a main reason Burnett chose Mercury over other interested labels to handle the soundtrack album was the company's unlikely — and unexpected — success in turning Shania Twain into a superstar recording act.

All on the panel agreed that the soundtrack concert held at Nashville's Ryman Auditorium in May 2000, months before the film and soundtrack were released in the U.S., was a special and energizing event for everyone who took part — including the tough music industry audience that came out to see it. The film of that concert became the basis of the documentary (and second soundtrack album), Down From the Mountain. "There were some people who didn't want to do the Carnegie [Hall] show [in June 2001]," Grady said, "because we didn't know if we could capture lightning in a bottle twice."

Selling the record involved meeting with non-traditional outlets as well as conventional record stores. "I don't think any retailer in America knows their customers like Amazon.com," Grady said. He learned that the "big thing" for that company — in sparking album sales — is an artist's appearance on National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" or "A Prairie Home Companion."

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Feb 2007 8:42 am

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Prarie Home Companion in their discussions. It seems to me that this show has done more to preserve tradtional music than any other.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 20 Feb 2007 9:23 am

If there were a way to get people like Mike Gross & Dave Collins
together , every Country music band could be heard around the
world .

In my opinion ! music with a simple sound , like country music , is
going to be in demand . the world today is becoming very complex
& at some point even someone like Bing Crosby will be a welcome relief .

Leslie
The term " Real " as related to country music was coined
here on the Forum , to describe that genre of country music not related to
Rock & Roll - ( or any other stile or genre )
The term " Classic " didn't seem to work for most folks playing
this music , for there are new songs that are done " Country Music " stile .
And in My opinion ! don't require Steel Guitar - But ! Is better with it !

Hick

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 20 Feb 2007 11:14 am

never under estimate the abysmal taste and sheep like stupidity of the masses. why is nu-country more popular than "real" country? why was Milli Vanilli #1?

why does Honky Tonk Bedonkey Punch sell a million copies?
lowest common denomenator....people on the whole seem to prefer vapid mindless pap over substance and art, Im soprry but people in general just seem to have really really bad taste. so break out the Achey Breaky's for the drooling throngs. I'll be in my basement with a Scott Biram record not caring one bit.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Feb 2007 11:45 am

Bill McCloskey wrote:I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Prarie Home Companion in their discussions. It seems to me that this show has done more to preserve tradtional music than any other.

I haven't gone back to check the long list of past Prarie Home shows, and the roster of performers is all over the map, but it seems to me that Prarie features folks that are more toward the Oh Brother category than Ray Price, the Possum, or Kitty Wells-but then I know Buddy Emmons has appeared as well.

As far a some old timey music, bluegrass and/or acoustic country, Oh Brother had an effect similar to what "A River Runs Through It" had on fly fishing, where a lot of folks became interested, and ran out to buy gear and take casting lessons, and on my favorite trout streams in the nothern California mountains, there are a lot more anglers on the waters.

A lot of dobros, acoustic guitars, and mandolins have been sold in recent years becuase of Oh Brother, but not pedal steel guitars.

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 20 Feb 2007 1:19 pm

Mark, The PSG will follow those who learn the DoBro,

Hey I fished those trout streams around Bridgeport,CA

Herbie

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Feb 2007 2:08 pm

"Mark, The PSG will follow those who learn the DoBro,"

Yeah, maybe and maybe not. One could make the arguement that some of the most exciting and innovative steel playing today is being done on the dobro (with a small d).

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 20 Feb 2007 3:59 pm

Selling the record involved meeting with non-traditional outlets as well as conventional record stores. "I don't think any retailer in America knows their customers like Amazon.com," Grady said. He learned that the "big thing" for that company — in sparking album sales — is an artist's appearance on National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" or "A Prairie Home Companion."

In early 2002 the DeRailers had an NPR feature on a Friday. I was surprised and proud to see "Here Come the DeRailers" at NR 1 on Amazon's overall charts that Saturday afternoon.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Feb 2007 4:23 pm

Herbie Meeks wrote:Mark, The PSG will follow those who learn the DoBro,

Hey I fished those trout streams around Bridgeport,CA

Herbie

Well, come on back out Herbie, I'll buy you a beer after we're done fishing-just make sure you stay well downstream of me when we're on the water!

Bill's right, some of the most exciting music in the steel guitar world these days is being made on the dobro, it's not necessarily a stepping stone to pedal steel. And though I'm trying to become good enough on the pedal steel so as not to embarass myself in public, because I love the sound so much- a lot of folks just don't want to have to deal with the learning curve on the instrument, along with the setup, tuning,etc.

It's your hard core pedal steelers that always want the latest greatest dobro simulator, so that they don't have to haul so much gear to a gig, work on overcoming feedback,etc. I don't blame them for that, but those things are sacrilegious to me!

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 20 Feb 2007 5:33 pm

MARK
I usually traveled on over the hill to Hawthorne,NV
for the Beer, and at times they had a Band at
The El Capitan, one of those NV Circuit Bands,
most were friendly, and would let an old musician sit in,

Of course I worked the Circuit for a while,
and knew some of the band members of several of
those Circuit Bands.

Herbie,

Chuck Hall · Post by **Chuck Hall** » 21 Feb 2007 5:59 am

I guess I might as well add my 2 cents worth here. I really hope classic, traditional country music makes it back. I have hope when I listen to my favorite oldies station play music of the 50's and 60's.

They say that history always repeats itself. I guess the oldies show that. Hopefully the 'good' country music will do the same.

The opnions in this post are entirely those of the writer and are intended solely to insure the immediate return of Classic Country Music.

Eric Jaeger · Post by **Eric Jaeger** » 21 Feb 2007 9:44 am

Mark and Herbie, let's have a PSG get together on the West Walker!

-eric (another fly fisherman)

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 21 Feb 2007 9:55 am

Yeah-we can bring battery powered amps-but I'm only playing after we're done fishing. I don't want to be blamed for putting the fish down...for days at a time!

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 21 Feb 2007 9:57 am

It won't be 'real country' until hollers are the dominant force on country radio and TV.

Smiles all around, I'm sure.

Herbie Meeks · Post by **Herbie Meeks** » 22 Feb 2007 8:17 am

ERIC JAEGER , and MARK EATON ???
Forget the batterys,, Bring along the Motor Homes. they have generators, to power the Amps. and comfort for old dudes like me. and a stove to cook the fish. Ice box for the beer.

What the heck, remember the " Altomomt " and "Woodstock "
We could have a " Walker River PSG Blow Out "
Need a couple Bands , with Roadies, to do the setups while we fish, If CA objects, we can move a few miles across the NV State Line, Maybe have a Pow Wow on the Walker, at The Yerington Peyute Reservation, plenty of room there

Sounds like fun anyhow

Herbie

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 22 Feb 2007 8:37 am

Here's what you need, Herbie...

http://denver.craigslist.org/msg/278427464.html