To be faithful to Ron's original topic, I think it's good to look at some of the old threads dealing with mainlanders' assumptions and native resentment. The following quotes are taken from the accompanying threads:
"I also don't believe this "Aloha" crap. There is no special Aloha among Hawaiians. They have the same jealousies, petty issues, and weaknesses that prey on them and tear them apart that we whities -- and everybody else -- have. I've personally witnessed all the back-stabbing among Hawaiians, which is no different than the back-stabbing that exists all over the globe."
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003312.html
"I don't want to tell you what to listen to but whatever you do, don't go listening to Jerry Byrd. Once you get that stuff in your playing you'll never shake it."
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003304.html
"I have yet to see anyone with reasonably good creative / enterprising minds not be able to make their own way reasonably well here somewhat under their own terms; Although I've seen allot of people leave because nominal creativity wasn't enough to achieve what they desired out of life at that particular time."
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/007030.html
"Went around Maui the other day carolling for Hawaiian Airlines. Ran into hoards of haoles that wouldn't smile when you said hello to them. They just wanted to play golf and pave the rest of the place."
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001975.html
"A lot of us revere tradition much more than innovation. Touting the individual is a haole idea. Hawaiian culture is much more community oriented."
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/009224.html
"Think any young Hawaiians want to listen to a haole tell them how their music should sound?"
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/009659.html
The lesson here is that anyone wanting to study steel guitar with the greats should do A LOT of research before taking on such a monumental task as ditching everything and moving to O'ahu. It's not just a matter of showing up and saying, "Here I am guys! Teach me because I'm ready to learn. Oh, and let me play some of your gigs, too."
There's a lot stacked against a student who doesn't have a healthy nest egg, humility, and a willingness to drop the mainland attitudes and assumptions. Perhaps even making an effort to learn the language and doing some community service might gain him or her more trust. Hawai'i may be a state, but in many ways it's still its own nation.
When opportunity knocks, who has the guts...
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Mat Rhodes
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Ron Whitfield
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I was gonna let this thread die out, but Matt brings it back to relevance.
There is merit to what you say at the end there, Matt, but believe me, my main thrust of this thread was to do exactly as you warn against. At least the 'ditching everything and showing up ready to learn' part.
Time out. It's lunch time!
There is merit to what you say at the end there, Matt, but believe me, my main thrust of this thread was to do exactly as you warn against. At least the 'ditching everything and showing up ready to learn' part.
Time out. It's lunch time!
Last edited by Ron Whitfield on 13 Feb 2007 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Don Kona Woods
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This thread started out as would you want a present day teacher of Hawaiian music, then pack up and come to Hawaii because there are three Hawaiian steel guitar players who will teach. Then it drifted into some comments about Jerry Byrd, his teaching, his style, etc. and then on to what is traditional Hawaiian steel guitar playing.
I will go on record if I had my choice of teachers of Hawaiian steel it would be in this order: Jules Ah See, David Keli'i. I would choose them because it would give me a better chance of playing traditional Hawaiian steel in the way that I would want to play it. But since they were not available except through records and I did not have the musical ability to decipher all that they were doing, I relied on the gifts that Jerry Byrd gave to the world and did the best I could with his teaching book and tabs. If I were in Hawaii today, I would jump at the chance of being taught by Bobby, Jeff, or Ron K. Jeff seems the most logical if I wanted to understand music theory and the traditional Hawaiian style at the same time. Bobby has a great ear and could teach, but I do not believe his capabilities run to music theory. I do not know anything about Ron K.
Now to some lengthy comments about traditional vs non-traditional Hawaiian steel guitar play – Waikiki vs. Outside of Waikiki.
The most anyone can do regarding some of the questions raised on this thread is give a perspective. And remember it will only be a perspective. It is not possible to have a fully comprehensive and accurate reporting of all historical facts because no one is privy to all of the facts and furthermore it is complicated. Then after having all of the facts there would need to be interpretation of those facts. Would that lead us to the truth?
My perspective runs through all of the 1960’s up to the mid 1970’s as a resident of Hawaii and my every other year visits to the Islands since then.
There was Hawaiian music with steel guitar for the tourist in Waikiki and on Hawaii Calls and there was traditional Hawaiian music played with steel guitar and enjoyed by the local people of Hawaii.
The Waikiki scene - For the tourist it was basically hapa haole songs with some traditional Hawaiian songs thrown in on occasion. While local people may have enjoyed those hapa haole songs, they were not considered traditional Hawaiian music. By traditional Hawaiian music we are talking about Hawaiian lyrics, varied traditional rhythms, i.e. hula, etc.
As was mentioned in another post, most of the Hawaiian steel guitar music that was to be heard would have been hear on KCCN radio. As close as you get to traditional Hawaiian music today is on 940AM on the dial. You can hear that here:
Traditional Hawaiian Music
During this time period, the steel guitar scene in Waikiki included Pua Almeida at the Moana, Billy Hew Len at Outrigger, Blue Dolphin Room, Barney Isaacs and Mel Abe at Hawaiian Village with Hilo Hattie and later Barney Isaacs played with Danny Kealakini at Kahala Hilton. This was primarily for the tourists, but local people would show up because of their relations with the entertainers. It was to support these entertainers.
Every Saturday in the 1960’s until the show ended, Hawaii Calls had steel guitar – Barney Isaacs, others, etc. This was open to the public to attend.
Gradually in the late 60’s singing groups began to be more prominent in Waikiki and the steel guitar was not a featured instrument of those groups, i.e. Kahauanu Lake Trio at the Royal Hawaii and later The Alii’s at Duke Kahanamoku’s, and trios in this room or that room, but no steel. Steel guitar in Waikiki was fading.
Close to Waikiki scene - Gabby Pahinui when he showed up or was able to show up and Feet Rogers played with the Sons of Hawaii in an Hawaiian Pub at the corner of Ala Moana Blvd and Kalakaua Avenue close to the famous Canlis Restaurant (I cannot remember the name, but it’s history, torn down because of progress
). My Hawaiian secretary, who was the sister of Joe Marshall, the bass player, introduced me to all of the Sons of Hawaii and this Hawaiian scene. This was where a lot of the local people went; it was not considered to be for tourists. They played and sang in what I call the old Hawaiian way. Herbert Hanawahine played for luaus in Manao Valley, but was not a part of the Waikiki scene.
There were other local steel guitarists playing but it was usually at luaus, informal gatherings, and local restaurants, etc.. Here the music would be more traditional, but it would not have been considered polished enough for Waikiki. It was most often single string playing by ear with simple chords played, but with good Hawaiian vamps. One could say it was for local enjoyment but it would not have appealed to very many Mainlanders unless they were part of HSGA or the Winchester club, then they would have eaten it up. IMHO.
The information that was communicated to me was that Hew Len, and the Rogers did not formally teach steel guitar. It might have been some teaching in an informal sense where they might show some features of playing or some licks but it was limited. How many players can you name who were taught by them and where are they. Bobby Ingano had some exposure to the Feet Rogers, but according to what I heard him say, it was limited. You would have needed the ability and the ear already to learn from these masters. It seems to have mostly come from picking it up by ear, recordings, etc. Never heard of Barney Isaacs doing any teaching either until after Jerry Byrd arrived.
In the early 70’s Jerry Byrd introduced a more formal approach to teaching steel guitar to students. He did fill a vacuum in Hawaii because there were no formal teaching of Hawaiian steel guitar. His approach included theory and note reading and this was different, etc. The older famous Hawaiian steel players did not do this, because they usually played by ear. The students at first sounded more like Jerry Byrd. Later they began to develop more of their own style. It appeared that Jerry was grooming professionals for the Waikiki scene and most Hawaiian steel players would not fit in with that style. I’m sure all of his students were aware that Jerry did not play steel guitar in the traditional way but they appreciated his gifted playing.
For the local steel player, it was more comfortable if it was more informal, laid back, play for the enjoyment, no big deal if you make a mistake and so Waikiki would have felt out of place. But where could these players be heard. Well the truth of the matter you would have had to by chance stumble upon it because most of the time you never heard about it.
Did Jerry Byrd save the Hawaiian steel guitar in Hawaii or would steel guitar have been revived had it not been for Jerry Byrd? Probably, but did Jerry help, probably. Did he make a substantial contribution? Why not ask Alan, Casey, Greg, Paul, Kaipo, etc?
Now that Jeff Au Hoy has arrived on the scene we might all see this question from a different perspective. Maybe he would have picked up the mantle of perpetuating the Hawaiian steel had Jerry not come along.
I ka noho pu ana a’ike i ke aloha. Ka lau ‘oliwa a ke aloha
That is my $.10 cents worth, I mean $.02 cents.
Aloha,
Don
I will go on record if I had my choice of teachers of Hawaiian steel it would be in this order: Jules Ah See, David Keli'i. I would choose them because it would give me a better chance of playing traditional Hawaiian steel in the way that I would want to play it. But since they were not available except through records and I did not have the musical ability to decipher all that they were doing, I relied on the gifts that Jerry Byrd gave to the world and did the best I could with his teaching book and tabs. If I were in Hawaii today, I would jump at the chance of being taught by Bobby, Jeff, or Ron K. Jeff seems the most logical if I wanted to understand music theory and the traditional Hawaiian style at the same time. Bobby has a great ear and could teach, but I do not believe his capabilities run to music theory. I do not know anything about Ron K.
Now to some lengthy comments about traditional vs non-traditional Hawaiian steel guitar play – Waikiki vs. Outside of Waikiki.
The most anyone can do regarding some of the questions raised on this thread is give a perspective. And remember it will only be a perspective. It is not possible to have a fully comprehensive and accurate reporting of all historical facts because no one is privy to all of the facts and furthermore it is complicated. Then after having all of the facts there would need to be interpretation of those facts. Would that lead us to the truth?
My perspective runs through all of the 1960’s up to the mid 1970’s as a resident of Hawaii and my every other year visits to the Islands since then.
There was Hawaiian music with steel guitar for the tourist in Waikiki and on Hawaii Calls and there was traditional Hawaiian music played with steel guitar and enjoyed by the local people of Hawaii.
The Waikiki scene - For the tourist it was basically hapa haole songs with some traditional Hawaiian songs thrown in on occasion. While local people may have enjoyed those hapa haole songs, they were not considered traditional Hawaiian music. By traditional Hawaiian music we are talking about Hawaiian lyrics, varied traditional rhythms, i.e. hula, etc.
As was mentioned in another post, most of the Hawaiian steel guitar music that was to be heard would have been hear on KCCN radio. As close as you get to traditional Hawaiian music today is on 940AM on the dial. You can hear that here:
Traditional Hawaiian Music
During this time period, the steel guitar scene in Waikiki included Pua Almeida at the Moana, Billy Hew Len at Outrigger, Blue Dolphin Room, Barney Isaacs and Mel Abe at Hawaiian Village with Hilo Hattie and later Barney Isaacs played with Danny Kealakini at Kahala Hilton. This was primarily for the tourists, but local people would show up because of their relations with the entertainers. It was to support these entertainers.
Every Saturday in the 1960’s until the show ended, Hawaii Calls had steel guitar – Barney Isaacs, others, etc. This was open to the public to attend.
Gradually in the late 60’s singing groups began to be more prominent in Waikiki and the steel guitar was not a featured instrument of those groups, i.e. Kahauanu Lake Trio at the Royal Hawaii and later The Alii’s at Duke Kahanamoku’s, and trios in this room or that room, but no steel. Steel guitar in Waikiki was fading.
Close to Waikiki scene - Gabby Pahinui when he showed up or was able to show up and Feet Rogers played with the Sons of Hawaii in an Hawaiian Pub at the corner of Ala Moana Blvd and Kalakaua Avenue close to the famous Canlis Restaurant (I cannot remember the name, but it’s history, torn down because of progress
). My Hawaiian secretary, who was the sister of Joe Marshall, the bass player, introduced me to all of the Sons of Hawaii and this Hawaiian scene. This was where a lot of the local people went; it was not considered to be for tourists. They played and sang in what I call the old Hawaiian way. Herbert Hanawahine played for luaus in Manao Valley, but was not a part of the Waikiki scene.There were other local steel guitarists playing but it was usually at luaus, informal gatherings, and local restaurants, etc.. Here the music would be more traditional, but it would not have been considered polished enough for Waikiki. It was most often single string playing by ear with simple chords played, but with good Hawaiian vamps. One could say it was for local enjoyment but it would not have appealed to very many Mainlanders unless they were part of HSGA or the Winchester club, then they would have eaten it up. IMHO.
The information that was communicated to me was that Hew Len, and the Rogers did not formally teach steel guitar. It might have been some teaching in an informal sense where they might show some features of playing or some licks but it was limited. How many players can you name who were taught by them and where are they. Bobby Ingano had some exposure to the Feet Rogers, but according to what I heard him say, it was limited. You would have needed the ability and the ear already to learn from these masters. It seems to have mostly come from picking it up by ear, recordings, etc. Never heard of Barney Isaacs doing any teaching either until after Jerry Byrd arrived.
In the early 70’s Jerry Byrd introduced a more formal approach to teaching steel guitar to students. He did fill a vacuum in Hawaii because there were no formal teaching of Hawaiian steel guitar. His approach included theory and note reading and this was different, etc. The older famous Hawaiian steel players did not do this, because they usually played by ear. The students at first sounded more like Jerry Byrd. Later they began to develop more of their own style. It appeared that Jerry was grooming professionals for the Waikiki scene and most Hawaiian steel players would not fit in with that style. I’m sure all of his students were aware that Jerry did not play steel guitar in the traditional way but they appreciated his gifted playing.
For the local steel player, it was more comfortable if it was more informal, laid back, play for the enjoyment, no big deal if you make a mistake and so Waikiki would have felt out of place. But where could these players be heard. Well the truth of the matter you would have had to by chance stumble upon it because most of the time you never heard about it.
Did Jerry Byrd save the Hawaiian steel guitar in Hawaii or would steel guitar have been revived had it not been for Jerry Byrd? Probably, but did Jerry help, probably. Did he make a substantial contribution? Why not ask Alan, Casey, Greg, Paul, Kaipo, etc?
Now that Jeff Au Hoy has arrived on the scene we might all see this question from a different perspective. Maybe he would have picked up the mantle of perpetuating the Hawaiian steel had Jerry not come along.
I ka noho pu ana a’ike i ke aloha. Ka lau ‘oliwa a ke aloha
That is my $.10 cents worth, I mean $.02 cents.
Aloha,
Don
Last edited by Don Kona Woods on 13 Feb 2007 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Scott Thomas
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Don,
What a well considered and thoughtful response. So informative too. I learned a lot.
Is David "Feet" Rogers' work with the Sons of Hawaii considered to be the best recorded example of the folk (for want of a better word) or backyard style of Hawaiian steel you describe? In other words, the least Waikiki-lounge sounding?
Excuse the further topic drift . . .
What a well considered and thoughtful response. So informative too. I learned a lot.
Is David "Feet" Rogers' work with the Sons of Hawaii considered to be the best recorded example of the folk (for want of a better word) or backyard style of Hawaiian steel you describe? In other words, the least Waikiki-lounge sounding?
Excuse the further topic drift . . .
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Don Kona Woods
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Ron Whitfield
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I doubt the Waikiki guy's were playing just for the tourists, as locals did enjoy these shows as well, even tho usually outnumbered.
Why?
Because the music was superb.
Lot's of local folks can get past the haolefication of many things, especially when the outgrowth is a positive.
You sure can't say that Pua, Jules, Gabby, Kelii didn't play great music in Waikiki.
The backyard stuff is naturally going to be a laid back affair.
Waikiki didn't allow boozing, goyles, and such. Not that it didn't happen. The Son's lost a great/steady gig because of Gabby.
But good music is just that, wherever and whatever it is.
As to the gist of this thread, for the lucky few that don't have heavy resposibiliites or can work within them, if learning Hawaiian steel from Hawaii locals is a dream, it can be had. It ain't just about the bux.
Believe me. There ain't no one on this forum more broke ass than me, but I managed to make a 20 year old dream a reality.
So can most others if they are willing to do what it takes.
Why?
Because the music was superb.
Lot's of local folks can get past the haolefication of many things, especially when the outgrowth is a positive.
You sure can't say that Pua, Jules, Gabby, Kelii didn't play great music in Waikiki.
The backyard stuff is naturally going to be a laid back affair.
Waikiki didn't allow boozing, goyles, and such. Not that it didn't happen. The Son's lost a great/steady gig because of Gabby.
But good music is just that, wherever and whatever it is.
As to the gist of this thread, for the lucky few that don't have heavy resposibiliites or can work within them, if learning Hawaiian steel from Hawaii locals is a dream, it can be had. It ain't just about the bux.
Believe me. There ain't no one on this forum more broke ass than me, but I managed to make a 20 year old dream a reality.
So can most others if they are willing to do what it takes.
Last edited by Ron Whitfield on 13 Feb 2007 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bill Creller
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Bill Creller
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I had AM940 on my computer until a couple of weeks ago. They were constantly calling it "traditional". I beg to differ.
The did play some traditional. but a lot of the current stuff was mostly what they played.
When hanging around Waikiki, I heard all kinds of groups at hotels, bars etc. Anyone who could play a guitar was at a mike wailin' away. It all sounded alike too. It was meant for the younger crowd, which is OK.
But when the radio plays that stuff and calls it "traditional", I shut it down.
Just my $.0000002 worth.
The did play some traditional. but a lot of the current stuff was mostly what they played.
When hanging around Waikiki, I heard all kinds of groups at hotels, bars etc. Anyone who could play a guitar was at a mike wailin' away. It all sounded alike too. It was meant for the younger crowd, which is OK.
But when the radio plays that stuff and calls it "traditional", I shut it down.
Just my $.0000002 worth.
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Ron Whitfield
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Don Kona Woods
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Ron says:
I believe that is true, Ron. The locals came out to support the entertainers and as you accurately stated, they came out also because of the quality entertainment. I believe that even more local people would probably have come but the high cost ($$$$)of Waikiki entertainment made it prohibitive.
I still listen quite a bit to 940AM and to Harry Sorio's Territorial Airwaves for my Hawaiian fill.
Aloha,
Don
I doubt the Waikiki guy's were playing just for the tourists, as locals did enjoy these shows as well, even tho usually outnumbered.
Why?
Because the music was superb.
Lot's of local folks can get past the haolefication of many things, especially when the outgrowth is a positive.
You sure can't say that Pua, Jules, Gabby, Kelii didn't play great music in Waikiki.
I believe that is true, Ron. The locals came out to support the entertainers and as you accurately stated, they came out also because of the quality entertainment. I believe that even more local people would probably have come but the high cost ($$$$)of Waikiki entertainment made it prohibitive.
I still believe that it is a close as you get, but I understand it may not be close enough. They have also added sports program in the late evening hours.As close as you get to traditional Hawaiian music today is on 940AM on the dial.
I still listen quite a bit to 940AM and to Harry Sorio's Territorial Airwaves for my Hawaiian fill.
Aloha,
Don
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Jack Byrd
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I was going to respond in depth to this thread about what occurred and how it happened that Jerry did what he did. I spent one whole day researching the many documnents I have from Jerry, along with audio tapes, videos and other primary source documents. I realized the posting would be quite long and most likely boring to many people who would not wade through the timeline of events and information and decided why bother as it has all been covered before and those that think it is a myth will continue to think so. I have studied in depth the civil war and revolutionary war. I had a library of over 70 civil war books and just recently read 6 books on the revolutionary war. Many myths have be written on really what happened in those wars. Several recent authors are really getting to the source of the events through in depth research and using primary source documents to put the events that occured in those wars in their proper light. One the greatest myths of history now is the group of people who claim the holocaust never occurred. How foolish can it get. So I decided not to spend the time or energy on this and go with what Jerry told me to do long ago and that being "just forget about it", nothing will be gained by your efforts. Those that were there know the results he achieved.
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Don Kona Woods
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Jack says,
Some of us appreciate your posting because you are a first-hand source, and first-hand sources are always more reliable as to factual information. Furthermore I do not believe that it would be boring at all.
Has it been covered in the time-line manner in which you are proposing?
As for me, I am ready and willing to listen. I think it would serve all of us Forumites well.
I'm listening!!!
Aloha,
Don
Jack, I still think that there are people on the Forum who have an open mind. Statistically speaking only about 12% of people have closed minds that can't be changed.I realized the posting would be quite long and most likely boring.... and decided why bother as it has all been covered before and those that think it is a myth will continue to think so.
Some of us appreciate your posting because you are a first-hand source, and first-hand sources are always more reliable as to factual information. Furthermore I do not believe that it would be boring at all.
Has it been covered in the time-line manner in which you are proposing?
As for me, I am ready and willing to listen. I think it would serve all of us Forumites well.
I'm listening!!!
Aloha,
Don
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Gerald Ross
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So.. someone define tourist Hawaiian music for me.
Is it David Kelii playing "Little Grass Shack"? Is it Jules Ah See playing "Sand" or his amazing version of "Hula Blues"? Is it Andy Iona playing "Endebted To You". Is is Aunty Genoa holding a note for two minutes without taking a breath? Is it having to play "The Hawaiian Wedding Song" night after night?
Welcome to the full-time playing-music-for-money world! Grow up! Drop the sensitive artist crap. Ask a full-time Bluegrass musician how many times a week they have to play " The Orange Blossom Special". Ask Tony Bennett if his audiences would be dissapointed if he omitted "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" from his show.
I'll admit there are many Hawaiian tunes that demean Hawaiians with insulting lyrics, portraying them as always happy, bare-footed, bare breasted, untainted by the white mans culture, not a care in the world, always wanting to serve with child-like smile and a laugh.
There are many many Tin Pan Alley - written in New York City "Hawaiian" tunes that are great pieces of music. Don't discount them.
Remember, these Hawaiian musicians were/are playing in bars and nightclubs. There goal is to entertain. Traditional Hawaiian chanting won't play in these situations.
Is it David Kelii playing "Little Grass Shack"? Is it Jules Ah See playing "Sand" or his amazing version of "Hula Blues"? Is it Andy Iona playing "Endebted To You". Is is Aunty Genoa holding a note for two minutes without taking a breath? Is it having to play "The Hawaiian Wedding Song" night after night?
Welcome to the full-time playing-music-for-money world! Grow up! Drop the sensitive artist crap. Ask a full-time Bluegrass musician how many times a week they have to play " The Orange Blossom Special". Ask Tony Bennett if his audiences would be dissapointed if he omitted "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" from his show.
I'll admit there are many Hawaiian tunes that demean Hawaiians with insulting lyrics, portraying them as always happy, bare-footed, bare breasted, untainted by the white mans culture, not a care in the world, always wanting to serve with child-like smile and a laugh.
There are many many Tin Pan Alley - written in New York City "Hawaiian" tunes that are great pieces of music. Don't discount them.
Remember, these Hawaiian musicians were/are playing in bars and nightclubs. There goal is to entertain. Traditional Hawaiian chanting won't play in these situations.
Last edited by Gerald Ross on 14 Feb 2007 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
Wikipedia - Gerald Ross
Gerald's Swing Ukulele and Steel Guitar
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'
A UkeTone Recording Artist
Wikipedia - Gerald Ross
Gerald's Swing Ukulele and Steel Guitar
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Ron Whitfield
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Mat Rhodes
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"I managed to make a 20 year old dream a reality.
So can most others if they are willing to do what it takes."
Therein lies the secret, Ron: what exactly does it take? Have times changed much from when you moved there like population increase and skyrocketing rents? I know Ka'a'awa is mostly "fee simple" and I assume that it costs less to live there than Honolulu/Waikiki, but the logistics must be a nightmare living that far away if you're trying to gig and get lessons regularly. And most of us can't afford the "average" price of $580,000 for a new house in that new development to the west of Honolulu. I'd be very interested in hearing how you (or anybody else who's there now) got there, adjusted, and maintained your lifestyle. I'd also be interested in a likely living scenario for the kind of students who end up there.
For example, is rent for a 1 bedroom, 600 sq. ft. apartment in Waikiki still in the thousands? Does one need a car? Is there a Costco near by? Should you be part of a union if you need a day job? What kind of day job gives you the flexibility to pursue your dream? Do employers in those kinds of jobs still provide health insurance even if it's only part-time? Should you take Da Bus to work, etc., etc.?
I don't mean to burden you with such minutiae, but they're kind of important if one's seriously going to move there.
So can most others if they are willing to do what it takes."
Therein lies the secret, Ron: what exactly does it take? Have times changed much from when you moved there like population increase and skyrocketing rents? I know Ka'a'awa is mostly "fee simple" and I assume that it costs less to live there than Honolulu/Waikiki, but the logistics must be a nightmare living that far away if you're trying to gig and get lessons regularly. And most of us can't afford the "average" price of $580,000 for a new house in that new development to the west of Honolulu. I'd be very interested in hearing how you (or anybody else who's there now) got there, adjusted, and maintained your lifestyle. I'd also be interested in a likely living scenario for the kind of students who end up there.
For example, is rent for a 1 bedroom, 600 sq. ft. apartment in Waikiki still in the thousands? Does one need a car? Is there a Costco near by? Should you be part of a union if you need a day job? What kind of day job gives you the flexibility to pursue your dream? Do employers in those kinds of jobs still provide health insurance even if it's only part-time? Should you take Da Bus to work, etc., etc.?
I don't mean to burden you with such minutiae, but they're kind of important if one's seriously going to move there.
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Ron Whitfield
- Posts: 6895
- Joined: 15 Nov 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
- State/Province: -
- Country: United States
Matt, there is still true Aloha to be found.
While it's getting harder to find, I stumbled upon it again the other evening on The Bus, when Ron Kanahele came up to me with his hand out to shake mine, and didn't kick my ass for posting about him! Then we spent over an hour talking story about important and interesting things that will remain with me forever.
Aloha lives in this man's heart, and can be felt from many Hawaiian's, even if they live in an igloo and snack on whale blubber, like Keoki Lake!
As far as the secret/s; assuming an interested party is not rich, it helps if you have no major responsibilities, are flexible, and/or creative.
Yes, it can be expensive to live in Hawaii, very expensive if you choose to live other than Oahu. But comparable to San Fran, Manhatten, and such. We're not unique in that matter.
If you have to live as a 'normal' person, you better have the $ to cover it all.
Thankfully, I'm (surprise!) not 'normal'.
However, Hawaii is very fertile ground for an entrepeneuring mind.
Buying a home is out of the question for most, these day's, but is still possible if your willing to live in the country areas.
Renting is a similar venture. Affordability can be found outside of the urban zones. The boonies is where you want to live anyway, unless your a fan of concrete.
The whole East side (minus Ka'a'awa) is affordable, as is Waimanalo or the Waianae coast. All have their up and down points.
The commute is a drag/dangerous at times, but that's what has helped keep the country, country. It's worth it.
The Bus service on Oahu reaches nearly everywhere. So, a car is a luxury, not a necessity for most. Plus, the many stupid drivers and unending parking hassles takes most of the fun out of using a car. But The Bus does suck in it's own many ways.
Ka'a'awa is no longer a secret since Hollyweird discovered it during the filming of Jurrasic Park www.kualoaranch.com and it's getting built up fast. But surrounding towns still are reasonable.
During my time learning from Jerry (at Harry's Music, just outside of Waikiki), I was in the middle of 5 yrs. of living on my 40' ketch and paying $300 a month for a Waikiki beach front slip. So, that made things much easier, and I only worked enuf to cover expenses, thus allowing me plenty of hours to focus and practice.
A 'day job' can present problems, as most teachers are 'before nooner's', but there is lot's of (mostly non-professional) off hour work to be had.
Or, convince your significant other to suger you for a while.
There are a lot of Ritchie Rich's in Hawaii and they need personnel to cover their everyday needs or manage property.
You can find live-in situations that can be pretty cush.
I've done a lot of boat sitting too over the years, which has many upisides (nothing like jet skiing to work!), but there are moments that backfire as well in live-in deals. Part of life.
Yes, we have Costco's and such now.
Student costs are going thru the roof.
But I recently heard of a local college that is quite resonable.
What are your needs?
Union work is booming, but that'll leave you precious little time for those dreams.
Health insurance (what's that?), certainly not at any part time job.
My last job had a great health/eye plan.
Bottom line; it ain't that tuff to get it on in Hawaii.
Jump on it!
And, bring your Aloha.
While it's getting harder to find, I stumbled upon it again the other evening on The Bus, when Ron Kanahele came up to me with his hand out to shake mine, and didn't kick my ass for posting about him! Then we spent over an hour talking story about important and interesting things that will remain with me forever.
Aloha lives in this man's heart, and can be felt from many Hawaiian's, even if they live in an igloo and snack on whale blubber, like Keoki Lake!
As far as the secret/s; assuming an interested party is not rich, it helps if you have no major responsibilities, are flexible, and/or creative.
Yes, it can be expensive to live in Hawaii, very expensive if you choose to live other than Oahu. But comparable to San Fran, Manhatten, and such. We're not unique in that matter.
If you have to live as a 'normal' person, you better have the $ to cover it all.
Thankfully, I'm (surprise!) not 'normal'.
However, Hawaii is very fertile ground for an entrepeneuring mind.
Buying a home is out of the question for most, these day's, but is still possible if your willing to live in the country areas.
Renting is a similar venture. Affordability can be found outside of the urban zones. The boonies is where you want to live anyway, unless your a fan of concrete.
The whole East side (minus Ka'a'awa) is affordable, as is Waimanalo or the Waianae coast. All have their up and down points.
The commute is a drag/dangerous at times, but that's what has helped keep the country, country. It's worth it.
The Bus service on Oahu reaches nearly everywhere. So, a car is a luxury, not a necessity for most. Plus, the many stupid drivers and unending parking hassles takes most of the fun out of using a car. But The Bus does suck in it's own many ways.
Ka'a'awa is no longer a secret since Hollyweird discovered it during the filming of Jurrasic Park www.kualoaranch.com and it's getting built up fast. But surrounding towns still are reasonable.
During my time learning from Jerry (at Harry's Music, just outside of Waikiki), I was in the middle of 5 yrs. of living on my 40' ketch and paying $300 a month for a Waikiki beach front slip. So, that made things much easier, and I only worked enuf to cover expenses, thus allowing me plenty of hours to focus and practice.
A 'day job' can present problems, as most teachers are 'before nooner's', but there is lot's of (mostly non-professional) off hour work to be had.
Or, convince your significant other to suger you for a while.
There are a lot of Ritchie Rich's in Hawaii and they need personnel to cover their everyday needs or manage property.
You can find live-in situations that can be pretty cush.
I've done a lot of boat sitting too over the years, which has many upisides (nothing like jet skiing to work!), but there are moments that backfire as well in live-in deals. Part of life.
Yes, we have Costco's and such now.
Student costs are going thru the roof.
But I recently heard of a local college that is quite resonable.
What are your needs?
Union work is booming, but that'll leave you precious little time for those dreams.
Health insurance (what's that?), certainly not at any part time job.
My last job had a great health/eye plan.
Bottom line; it ain't that tuff to get it on in Hawaii.
Jump on it!
And, bring your Aloha.
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Mat Rhodes
- Posts: 518
- Joined: 4 Nov 2005 1:01 am
- Location: Lexington, KY, USA
- State/Province: -
- Country: United States
-
Ron Whitfield
- Posts: 6895
- Joined: 15 Nov 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
- State/Province: -
- Country: United States