Hall of Fame?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 5 Sep 2006 8:35 am

To his credit, Jim Sliff has left his original post unedited.
And the issues he raises are certainly worth considering.
Maybe it is proper that the Hall Of Fame should recognize players and styles from the distant past. Whether this is due to "ignorance" of the fact that popular music has changed since the 1950's, or a "narrow, political" anti-hippie bias is not important.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Sep 2006 8:48 am

Oh, Earnest, you're such a card.

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 5 Sep 2006 8:55 am

actually it is probably more of an anti-hippie chicken bias!

Jim, I love ya man! You have really got leg humping down to a fine science...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Sep 2006 10:35 am

Frank, you know that I consider you a good friend despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that we disagree about almost everything, but you gotta get past this liberal vs conservative obsession of yours.

How would you feel about somebody who studied niether arithmetic, nor history, but who declared thatr 2 plus 2 equals 5, and that Columbus discovered China. Would you not suggest that he learn what he or she was talking about before making such statements?

Jim has written a number of things that are simply factually incorrect. He has jumped to erronious conclusions without knowing all the facts. I suggested that he refrain from posting till he learns what he's writing about. I did not say he shouldn't be allowed to post.

This is not about politics. It's about simply learning one's subject matter before saying anything.

As far as our differening opinions of Universal direction, that's exactly what they are, differeing opinions, reflecting our different musical tastes.

When they say " There's no accounting
for taste" it's usually meant as a put down, but the truth is there really is no accounting for it. Some people like red, some like blue. Neither are right or wrong. That's just life.

Before I close this post I want everybody reading it to know that a few years ago, when I needed surgery, Frank was the one who asked everybody to pray for me. We and argue a lot, sometimes heatedly, but deep down, as I said earlier, I consider him a friend, and I think and hope he feels the same way about me.

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Warning: I have a Telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 05 September 2006 at 11:37 AM.]

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 5 Sep 2006 10:50 am

I have just returned from the Convention, where were you guys who do nothing but complain????

Seems to me all you do is sit behind your PCs and write stupid things about something you have no clue about.

The induction process involves a gathering of the board members to vote for NEXT YEAR'S inductees - there was a long thread quite recently about Bobbe being nominated for NEXT YEAR, hopefully he can make it! And, by the way, Mr. Sliff, how many nominations have YOU already sent in????

While in St. Louis I had a long talk with Reece who spoke very highly about Rico Turchetti, the same came from Billy Robinson and Don Helms. Just because you never heard of him is not the end of the world, like b0b said, try to find out more about him, that would probably broaden your horizon! I just did the same thing, talked to Rico's sons in St. Louis, they will provide me with some music of their father, so I can listen and explore....

I am so sick and tired about those stupid attacks against folks like Scotty, Herb, Bob Maickel and the other board members, this is really insulting and disgracing...

My thanks for b0b, Smiley, Fred Jack, Herb Steiner and Mike Perlowin for their statements, I fully agree, guys!

Walter Stettner

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf [This message was edited by Walter Stettner on 05 September 2006 at 12:11 PM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Sep 2006 11:08 am

Frank
I know you're an educated man and have an MBA, but obviously not one in Constitutional law. Otherwise you'd know that the Bill of Rights applies to the government, not to private citizens. Freedom of Speech, which is one of the rights given to the people contained in the First Amendment, says the government can't put someone in jail for speaking their mind, regardless of how wrong their statements may be.

The First Amendment also includes Freedom of the Press, which extends to the people who own the media. That means that b0b can delete the things that people post here if he doesn't like those statements. It also means he can call those statements stupid if he feels like it. In his generosity, b0b also allows other people to say things that he might disagree with, so you, Frank, can call me, Perlowin, or anyone else "stupid" if you so desire.

Under b0b's rules, you are also allowed to state your opinion that Maurice's tone on Universal Direction is terrible, an opinion that differs from mine, incidentally, but that's okay by me. Reece is undoubtedly reading this thread, so you can consider your statement as having been said to Reece's face. That does require the courage of your convictions on your part. You do have my admiration for that.

Out of respect for Reece's accomplishments and tact in general, I personally would have kept that opinion to myself if I held it, but then again, I'm not you

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 05 September 2006 at 12:13 PM.]

Brett Anderson · Post by **Brett Anderson** » 5 Sep 2006 11:16 am

I never heard Reece play either. But he's got a great last name. Somehow I hope we are related. Man, I feel alot of love coming from this post.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Sep 2006 11:31 am

Jim Sliff wrote:

If Herb's correct then that alters the omissions - but word was that they were both nominated LAST year for possible induction THIS year.

"If Herb's correct..."???

I'm on the Board, Jim. I know more than you. WAY MORE than you.

Are you accusing me of lying, Jim? If so, we can, and should, discuss this little opinion of yours privately.

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[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 05 September 2006 at 12:37 PM.]

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 5 Sep 2006 12:39 pm

Jim I agree completely again with this- it IS an injustice - I'd say for myself, esp in Sneaky's case, since I'm only familiar with Bobbe by name not his music- though he seems to have the fan base, esp on the forum here, to prove his influence far & wide-
But it's like anything else in that world I think. There IS an entrenched crowd of naysayers unwilling to move or look ahead.
I say, keep on keeping on, keep on renominating them & supporting them,
perhaps one day the young WILL inherit.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Sep 2006 1:06 pm

BTW I agree that both Sneaky and Bobbe do belong in the hall of fame, but I don't think ther've been slighted, but rather that they have to wait their respective turns. I think sooner or later both of them will be inducted.

I take issue with the idea that Sneaky has not been inducted because he played an 8 string or that he played country rock in California instead of being part of the mainstream Nashville community. That's just nonsense.

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 5 Sep 2006 1:24 pm

Goodness.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 5 Sep 2006 1:25 pm

Oh come on Mike. You know one must have at least ten strings to qualify as a music maker and be eligible for induction in the hall of fame. Oh, I forgot...didn't Jimmy Day play his most famous work on 8 strings?

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 5 Sep 2006 1:34 pm

Mark, I think you are 100% right.Nominate and renominate.Thats how it is done!Also you say "maybe the young will inherit.Better yet they (the young) could band together and instead of waiting they could start a new orginization and honor whoever they choose,whenever they choose,however they choose.Of course they would pay their own overhead so we couldn't expect them to ask us for permission to operate it the way they would want to.You get the picture of how that would work?They could even name it any thing they wanted too.Its just a thought but perhaps some of you might want to consider ...

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 5 Sep 2006 1:40 pm

If you have studied Reese Andersons recorded work then you know that he is one of the finest players ever on the instrument and worthy of this honor.

His recording of just steel guitar, acoustic bass and drums of "I'm Old Fashioned" is one of the finest renditions of that song that I have ever heard and it done almost what--40 years ago!! He was harmonically and phrasing wise light years ahead of so many steel players. As far as I am concerned, this award is so overdue.

We all know the story behind the HOF and how it is run and who owns it and what they like and what they don't like and so on. It does have its' flaws as does just about every other situation where people are involved. It never will be perfect, but this time they managed to do what they refused to do for so long.

I see it as a good thing for everyone. I bet that the posts here on the forum in the past few years had some sort of bearing on the HOF board. There are other players that deserve to be in the HOF. Possibly there is a new mindset on the board that will allow them to be included and then we won't have to have these discussions every year as to who was left out and why someone who might not have been as great a player made it in and so on.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Sep 2006 1:41 pm

didn't Jimmy Day play his most famous work on 8 strings?

Gee, I forgot about that. I guess we'll have to remove Jimmy Day from the HOF now.

Oh the humanity.

Hey Jim Bob. It was really nice seeing you in St Louis. When are you going to come visit all your old friends here in California?

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Warning: I have a Telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 5 Sep 2006 2:25 pm

QUESTION??? IS THERE ANYONE, CAPABLE, WILLING
AND ABLE TO DO A BETTER JOB FOR THE SGHOF
THAN SCOTTY AND HIS ASSOCIATES....
IF SO STEP UP AND BE COUNTED FOR YOUR QUALITIES... AND BE RECOGNIZED BY YOUR PEERS..
OUTHERWISE, THE ARGUMENT IS EXCEEDELING
POINTLESS...
AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD OBJECT AND COMPLAIN IF
YOU HUNG THEM WITH A NEW ROPE....
JW U PK;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, + D'ANGELICO
N. 400

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 5 Sep 2006 3:13 pm

Mike P., our values have everything to do with our world view and that affects everything. There is no separating it. Sorry...

Just to be clear, I do not have a problem with Reece being inducted. He is a great player, but I did not like that album and found it hard to believe it would be considered one of the best of all time. So, the pro-level comment was not directed at him, obviously.

I love Tom Bradshaw. His magazines were tops and he has been a real promoter of steel and I have purchased many things from him over the years. But...he gave up playing steel many, many years ago and I doubt he would say he reached pro-level of playing. Maybe I am wrong about that. I just think it is an odd choice, but then again how important is it really...

As for the HOF process not being political, you cannot be serious. There were people specifically blocking certain nominees, not on the merits of their playing. The criteria should be on one's ability to play and the impact of that playing, not on one's personal/business life.

There was one member of the board that told Herby Wallace several years ago that even he (Herby) would be inducted before Reece! The person who said this would not be worthy to carry Herby's case.

Back to the most important issue:

"What about that cotton-picking wall..."

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Sep 2006 3:37 pm

No Herb, I'm not accusing you of lying. "If" is a qualifying expression when there are unanswered questions, and it doesn't imply untruth in any way. So please don't think that I would ever accuse you of lying. I also am aware you are on the board, and you know a lot...but surprisingly, there are things even you probably aren't aware of.

But out of respect for you, Herb, I will retract the if" and say you are correct about the dates of submission.

However, that does not change the fact that problems with the dates were never communicated to a submitting party. you can argue "the rules are printed in black and white", but I challenge anyone to read those rules and not be able to interpret them any of several ways - fiscal year, calendar year, or ???? - and unless one knows the convention dates and procedures by more or less "being around" for a while, it's a poor assumption that someone who has never participated before would be aware of the exact meaning of the "instructions" and descriptions of the procedure (and I'm not talking about myself). Even after several threads on the subject, no one "in the know" corrected the date issue until b0b posted something about it...but not until late July of THIS year. And again - an outsider, not knowing the procedures, would not have any idea that a vote and resulting induction could not take place within the same convention.

So we seem to have written descriptions and rules that somehoew conflict or are confusing, and confirmation letters that do not specifically clarify what the exact procedure/dates are that the board follows (there actually does not seem to be any documentation of the voting prodcedures, odd for a non-profit organization).

There's also a board member who has quit because of at least one procedural issue.

It's quite an interesting situation, especially for a non-profit organization that has to follow a very strict set of regulated procedures.

Also, for Mikey, who seems to have control issues, please note that I'm not the only one noticing some problems appear to exist with the system. I spent quite a bit of time researching things before even posting anything. I would bet dollars to donuts you haven't read 1/10 the posts, not the linked threads - you just saw my name and jumped on in.

Well, to avoid more inane reactions like the "go away for a year" foolishness form folks who are last-minute pile-ons, I'll request, as the starter of the thread and per SGF policy, that the thread be closed now. But my email light is always on.

Thanks.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Sep 2006 3:48 pm

Frank, I believe you misinterpreted my post. I did not mean to say that the HOF was not political, but rather that my comment that Jim needs to learn more about our instrument's history and community was not a reflection of my political beliefs.

2 and 2 are 4 regardless of whether you're a liberal or a conservative.

I want you to know that it really meant something to me when, after all the times we argued publicly, you were the one to ask people to pray for my recovery when I had my surgery. (BTW I did recover completely.)

I think there's a lesson there: that we may disagree profoundly, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, we are all brothers and sisters in this great steel guitar family.

And Jim, if you're reading this, I really don't mean to belittle you, (and again I apologise for the one time when I lost my temper and flamed you.) But I think there is much you have yet to learn about our instrument, it's players, it's history, it's many diverse personalities, and our community in general. (There's much I still don't know either.) I hope that you will take the time and trouble to learn.

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Warning: I have a Telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 5 Sep 2006 4:52 pm

Yes, Mike, we are still friends and I genuinely want to see everyone saved! Seriously!

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 5 Sep 2006 5:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Yes.. That's very commendable. I understand lifetime achievements..

Now if you will kindly turn back to Page 2, there are some problematic details we need to review...

-St Peter-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 05 September 2006 at 06:50 PM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 5 Sep 2006 6:24 pm

I think"Bashful Brother Oswald"Kirby and Ron Lashley,Sr.should be in there,too..."Oswald
"was one of the original steel players who was an integral part of his artist's(Roy Acuff)sound and I'm sure he must have influenced scores of steel guitar players(even though he played the dobro)...and as a builder,Ron left his mark on the steel world as well...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 05 September 2006 at 07:29 PM.][This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 05 September 2006 at 07:29 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 5 Sep 2006 6:44 pm

Mike, I'm continually learning , reading, studying, listening, despite what you may think.

Surprisingly, NONE of that as to do with the "operation" of the HOF. That's a business. And I've been in the business world since I was 14, and on the board of non-profits, including the only president of one that supplied musical instruments to disadvantaged kids. But I suppose that's a bad thing too, that they needed to "pay their dues" to be allowed to use trumpets and such.

And Herb, I love you, I really do - but I probably know more about the legal end of a non-profit organization operation than you do. I HAD to. So please don't think I don't know what is and is not allowed by an organization's bylaws and the laws governing them. And I will repeat - you are NOT a liar...you're one of the more honest guys I know, and I don't say things like that lightly - nor am I saying something different in email than here.

Oh, yeah - and isn't this thread closed?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Sep 2006 8:54 pm

However, that does not change the fact that problems with the dates were never communicated to a submitting party.

Scotty always sends a letter acknowledging receipt of a nomination. The letter also states the date when the nomination will be presented to the board (in this case, August 31, 2006).

The bronze plaque takes months to make. It's a cast of a sculpture of the inductee. It's simply impossible for the board to vote on a nominee and then make the presentation two days later. It can't happen.

The procedure is clearly stated on the SGHOF web site <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><h3 align="center">The Steel Guitar Hall Of Fame
Induction Procedure</h3> The Steel Guitar Convention Board meets annually at the scene of the International Steel Guitar Convention. Some weeks prior to that meeting, the nominations accumulated during the preceding year are circulated to Board members for their information. This allows each Board member the opportunity to research the background of all nominees under consideration. The Board then convenes, reviews the nominations, evaluates the comparative data presented, and assesses the breadth and depth of each nominee's contributions to the artistic performance, advancement and historical development of the instrument as the nominee's contributions apply. The Board ultimately comes to a decision regarding the appropriateness of the nominee(s) to be inducted at the following year's convention.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The emphasis at the end of the last sentence is mine. I think it's pretty clear that this is a simple misunderstanding on the part of anyone who thought that Sneaky Pete's nomination last November, after the annual meeting, could have resulted in a 2006 induction.

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Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Sep 2006 9:56 pm

Closed per Jim's request.