Hall of Fame?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 3 Sep 2006 3:34 pm

It has nothing to do with heroes or anyone wanting their own little fiefdom. Well, anyone but Scotty, unless there are others that want to create their own convention/award and make it appear as if it's some "official" organization of some sort.

It has to do with the impartiality of the so-called judging.

It reminds me of trade show door prizes - the winners will be "selected" at 8pm. "selected" is quite different from "voted on".

If this was all on the up-and-up, the voting members would receive a copy of each nomination packet, read it, and vote. No meetings, no discussion. The voting members would also either be selected at random from a pool or otherwise chosen in a way that ensures impartiality.

None of that exists.

As evidenced in past threads, players have been snubbed for personal reasons that have no relevance to their accomplishments. Yet there is no set of personal"rules", as in baseball, prohibiting hall entry on the basis of anything.

Yes, as Fred Jack said it's Scotty's thing and he can do what he wants. But Fred seems to think I didn't feel Tom should be inducted. Uh, where exactly did I say that Fred?

Read before your hands hit the keyboard. It keeps you from arguing with thin air.

The problem is that people see this as an award representative of the steel community s a WHOLE, not Scotty. So it's terribly misleading. I'm also not uninformed, I went back and re-read the many threads on the subject before the first post, not to mention the many discussions with other steel players who are NOT vting members. And it's very enlightening how many quality people/players agree that the whole thing is a sham.

It is interesting theat apparently Sneaky's materials were submitted in November, and that may be too late for this year's awards. But did anyone inform Anita? No. that's demonstrative of the class of the operation.

Herb, I'll say it on the forum - I do respect the fact that you say you vote based solely on a nominee's accomplishments. But you are one vote, and it's already been shown that there is a lot of back-door politics involved. It may not involve you personally, but there's no denying it's there.

It's also somewhat laughable that some folks say it's all on the up-and-up - and yet a voting board member is inducted? There's no "influence" on the other members regarding that nomination? Spare me...

Not tilting at windmills - I did my research. But some people don't CARE that it' a good ol' boy's club. Fine - but be sure to show some honesty and represent it that way so the whole steel community knows EXACTLY what the award is.

Oh - and no, I'm not 12. I said I had not heard Reece's PLAYING. I have heard of Reece. If you want to shoot a childish insult, read the thread first. I've never heard of the guy from the 50's...and apparently neither have many others. If that's your point, there are a lot of 12-year olds here.

If you read Steve Gambrell's post and then go BACK to the referenced thread, some of you who think the whole thing is rosy and innocent might be smacked a little.

And thanks Eric.

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 3 Sep 2006 4:05 pm

So Herb,
By offering alternative modes of payment, did you find an increase in sales? Did you use a cell phone to authorized a sale and did you find the transaction cumbersome? Just curious

gl

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 3 Sep 2006 4:05 pm

Just a thought. If you or someone started a new Hall Of Fame,how many names would be the same? I bet 95% of the list would be the same. who would you take off the list of great players? Joe

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 3 Sep 2006 4:13 pm

I've watched the machinations of OTHER "Halls of Fame," Halls of Honor," etc. Starting with the local high school football team, throught the International Bluegrass Music Association, election to Phi Beta Kappa, and the cheapening of the term by the so-called "Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame." NO requirements for admission, other than "knowing the right folks." Yes, Bradshaw put out a magazine, and lost money.
Reece is a great player, Julian Tharpe was a great player, yadda yadda. Terry Wendt tried to put out a magazine---He's no longer around. When's Ed Naylor gonna be nominated? He GAVE me my first volume pedal! Any of you guys got an axe to grind with Ed Naylor???
I'd like to see John Fabian, Ron Lashley,Jr. AND senior, Charles Reece, and myself nominated to the HOF. Ain't gonna happen.
Herb, I'm truly sorry if I've insulted you here. But EVERYTHING I've said here has been backed up on the Forum, or by the old-timers that I know, who KNEW Tharpe, and who GOT the emails from the MSA people.
Boy, don't Jeff Newman's words ring hollow?
Wouldn't Winnie be proud???[This message was edited by Stephen Gambrell on 03 September 2006 at 05:15 PM.]

George Plemons · Post by **George Plemons** » 3 Sep 2006 4:35 pm

Jim, you make some good valid points and my post was not a shot at you but just a little humor in my congrats. I don't why they only select two. If several belong, good grief, put em in. As for who all belongs, there will always be one more that should have made it, like in all other honor halls.

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 3 Sep 2006 5:40 pm

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 05 September 2006 at 09:22 AM.]

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 3 Sep 2006 6:40 pm

Jim Sliff, you have misquoted me. I said "IF it is Scotty's game .... IF being the keyword there.
Also I agree that the air is much to thin here. I'm out!

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 3 Sep 2006 6:41 pm

Wow..I just came back from one of the best ISGshows I ever attended. All this ballyhoo over who got inducted and who didn't. Not all our favorites can go in at once and not all that enter are our favorites. Reece in particular is one of my all time favorites. Nothing in my mind can taint this mans deserving award to hang next to the best as he is simply "one of them".

pdl20 · Post by **pdl20** » 3 Sep 2006 6:48 pm

Hang on folks ,here is my 2 cents.i will be 65 in a couple of months,there are many of us old timers who started playing clubs ,etc when you were paid 6 to 12 bucks a nite. we didn't have pedals and knee levers. Guys like Alveno Ray,Don Helms,Jerry Byrd and many names i can't remember now were great stars on the steel guitars. we all tried to learn from them. there weren't any cd's or cassette tapes or dvd's to help us learn our instrument. i as many older players saw this instrument develop into what it is today,so please educate yourself on its history and who did what. Bobbie, Reese, Tom Bradshaw Mr. Tharp, Mr. Beck , Roy Wiggens and many many others all have made this treck through the history of the steel.there are some that are forgotten and some will never be. some will never be in the SGHOF but that does not take away who,what and when and how they did it. Thank God they did and the new generation is doing their part.I am happy to see someone give out awards for what they have done and at least try and honor them. Nothing in this damn world is perfect and never will be .Lets worry about our Military and our country and things that matter and not just little things like who gets in the SGHOF and who dosen't. thats mhop.

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Mullen D 10 9&9 Emmons D 10 8 & 5. Evans Amp , Steelers Choice Seat Hilton Pedal ,Herby Wallace JagWire strings

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 Sep 2006 7:07 pm

I have met, or corresponded, or seen play,
or all of the above,
several members of the SGCB of the SGHOF.

In my opinion, they are all extremely well informed,
know of what they speak,
and the ones I HAVE met,
all come across as fair and even handed.
And that is a pretty high percentage of the total membership.

If they are not actual virtuoso players,
they DO know the instrument extremely well.

There is so much history, and external politics involved,
that it is IMPOSSIBLE not to miss someone,
ofend someone,
and have valid personal opinions,
in conflict with other board members.

Since as I understand it it must be a high or unanimous vote,
then to get a consensus seems quite difficult.

PLUS each nominated player must have a detail bio submited on time,
and clearly detailed.

Then it is subected to a long vetting then voting process.

Have not always agreed with all voting,
BUT sometimes it was because I had no idea who won, vs another.

I will say this Maurice Anderson is a VERY welcome addition,
to the Steel GUitar Hall Of Fame.

Confict of interest or not.
Tom Bradshaw,
who likely abstained from voting for himself,
was nominated by another, not by himself.

He has been a huge proponent of the steel guitar,
from mail or and publishing, music reissues and production,
to being considered one of the best set up men.

I see no where that it says ONLY PICKERS can be elected.

I think in the Baseball HOF even managers
and the like can get in.

What have they done for the game?

In Reece and Tom's cases, a lot.
Congratulations to you both.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 September 2006 at 08:10 PM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 3 Sep 2006 7:34 pm

"Jim Sliff, you have misquoted me. I said "IF it is Scotty's game .... IF being the keyword there."

Fred, it's not a misquote in reality, as it's already been proven it's Scotty's game. But please, feel free to split hairs.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 3 Sep 2006 8:06 pm

What I don't get, Jim (Sliff), is why you care so much about this. I'm no student of the history of the SGHOF, but I don't think there's any attempt by anyone to obfuscate the fact that it was started by one man, Scotty, and is operated (if that's the word) by people who got involved with it voluntarily, or at his request. I don't have the impression that any of them stand to profit from it in any way, except perhaps in the case of Tom Bradshaw or anyone else in his position, psychological satisfaction (though I hardly think he'd derive much satisfaction from voting for himself). I could put up a sign outside my house, "Home of the Steel Guitar Gallery of Greats", and I and my friends could decide who we like and make up little plaques with their names on them and stick them on a wall. Might be some jollies for us, some "inductees" might appreciate it, some people might be interested. Everyone else, so what? Big Whoop! Are you going to have to stop considering Sneaky Pete great if nobody ever hangs a plaque with his name on it in St. Louis somewhere? I know who I think is great, you know who you think is great, Tom, Dick, and Harry know who they think is great. Somebody hanging out a "Hall of Fame" shingle won't change any of that (at least it shouldn't).
Someone once told Zen scholar and author D.T. Suzuki about a certain Professor So-and-So who disagreed fundamentally with his views of the meaning of Zen. His only reply was "This is a big world. Plenty of room in it for Professor So-and-So and myself."

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 3 Sep 2006 10:09 pm

Brint, it's just that so many people have the mistaken impression that there's some sort of steel community "mandate" that Scotty's convention/awards are the "offcial" ones of the steel world, when it's merely his lodge buddies "selecting" their winners according to their own personal agenda (re-read the old threads about Reece if you disagree.

It's a sham - and they need to stop pretending it's some "official" brouhaha when it's merely Scotty's personal show and "knighting".

I just don't like seeing people taken in by misdirection.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 3 Sep 2006 10:30 pm

I think I 'get it'.

SGHOF: Everything, and Nothingness, at once.

The Most Important Thing: Deciding when mortals gain the air of World Renoun. At the hands and whims of the New Centurions. Complete with Power, Politics, and Intrigue worthy of the Ancient Roman Senate.

Then as if by Magic, a small private philanthropic enterprise, that is bestowed by the most modest, humble and well meaning fuzzy old guys. Just hanging around, wondering who they can make the happiest this year.

To a normal person, it would have to be either one or the other..

However at this point, I can see a certain "Zen" to it.

It sure makes for some interesting discussion.. if not occaisional enlightenment..

EJL

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 4 Sep 2006 1:28 am

................... [This message was edited by Al Collinsworth on 04 September 2006 at 12:47 PM.][This message was edited by Al Collinsworth on 04 September 2006 at 01:12 PM.]

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 4 Sep 2006 1:38 am

Congratulations to this years inductees and especially to my dear friend Reece Anderson. I know they are all worthy of such an honor.

Thanks also to Herb and the rest of the board for doing a very difficult task each year. Good job guys!

Rick Garrett

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 4 Sep 2006 2:38 am

I agree with Rick.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 4 Sep 2006 3:12 am

I think Herb's suggestion has some validity.
Everybody has their own personal HOF, the way it should be.
Congratulations, Tom and Reese. Well deserved.

If you like being a lightning rod, be sure you're well grounded.

Good one, Pat.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 4 Sep 2006 3:52 am

Come on guys - some of these posts are highly personal. The mathmatics are simple - the number of vacant inductee places each year are far outweighed by the potential nominees. We all have views on past, present and possible future inductees. We can keep the posts civilised with flaming each other surely? Or would that make things boring?

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 4 Sep 2006 5:17 am

Hall of Fame? Just go to St. Louis and have a good time. After meeting a lot of great folks and making new friends, you too will feel as if you are in the Hall of Fame.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 4 Sep 2006 5:22 am

quote....IF it is Scotty's game and he makes the rules one must remember that it was he that started it!....

This is an interesting thread but before it gets closed, I would like to correct the above line. Jimmy Vest started the SGHOF, but turned it over to Scotty.

[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 04 September 2006 at 06:23 AM.]

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 4 Sep 2006 6:20 am

I was wondering, where is the listing of everyone that is in the HOF, is there a website showing this?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 4 Sep 2006 8:38 am

Right Here.

Overall, It'd be hard to put all the people in there that belong given the criterion precedents from year to year.

Some of the inclusions are as mystifying as the omissions, but only a few.

A lot of people obviously seem to take themselves pretty seriously. Not one of my particular failings.

We've even got a Social Worker advising us.

How great is that!?

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 04 September 2006 at 10:08 AM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 4 Sep 2006 8:43 am

I am finally home and I enjoyed "Scottys" Lodge brothers show and I say that with respect not pun. Someone had to start the ball rolling for it to be what it is today a monsterous show of Steel Guitar talent ,products and meeting and being with old and new friends. The HOF is but a small part of the show but a reward to someone for their efforts ,popularity and skills and for being the ones who pave the paths. I have had some issues with a mentioned new inductee at one time but in no way do I feel he or anyone inducted ever is not worthy. And though one or two or maybe more feel that the "Honor" is not big to those who recieve it,then one does not understand all the hard work that has been done to even be thought of in this capacity.I have been an advocate for Reece's induction for several years I'll admit to ignorance of the others credentials but I was there and heard of all they accomplished in their careers. So I say Congratulations to them. This may be Scotty's thing as one calls it but it exist from hard work efforts from him and many others. From it other shows have spawned and the instrument and the players are the winner out of all this.There are many people now manufactoring the instrument and each show brings to the attendees attention of the new product improvements and New players we would never get to know about or hear. I enjoyed this years show and the international flavor that was presented on the stage with all those from as far away as Japan,Norway,England and even over the border to Canada that shows the measure of success "Scotty's" and his workers have accomplished. My hats off to all involved with the success of the ISGA show. And to all the new inductees CONGRATULATIONS.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 4 Sep 2006 9:14 am

Attn: Jim Sliff,

Old saying:

"Its best to keep your mouth shut,& let people THINK you're ignorant,than to open it & remove all doubts!"

One more:

"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"

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