The Origin of this ??????

Dale Bessant · Post by **Dale Bessant** » 20 Feb 2006 5:51 am

I have been around country music and musicians all my life and many of you as well, I heard this phrase a long time ago, about the double neck steel guitars and wondered if any of you had heard it or even better, who might have come up with it. The statement was " the C-sixth is the FUNNY neck,and the E-ninth is the MONEY neck."
I cant remember where ,when or who I heard it from,like I said it was years ago, any help here from some of the many veteran and legendary players on this Forum?
To me it had to be in the early years when the transition came from multi-neck non-pedal guitars to two-neck guitars, or from the early recording years when the e-ninth neck became popular on so many recordings and the Western swing music was still primarily being played on the non-pedal guitars.
Any ideas?

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 20 Feb 2006 6:10 am

Don't know about that but I heard Doug Jernigan say that C6 takes you to St. Louis and E9 takes you to the IGA.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Feb 2006 6:38 am

(For our out-of-town friends, I'll mention that the "IGA" is a grocery store. Good line, Doug!)

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Feb 2006 7:00 am

I heard over 40 years ago that Pete Drake had referred to E9th as the "money neck". Even today, E9th is what we hear on about 99% of pop country, as well as most new classic country releases.

I think that the mainstream audience just gravitates towards the more simple stuff on guitar and steel, mostly major chords, with an occasional minor or seventh. You may not like the idea, but you can't refute it. Listeners today get little exposure to jazz and classical music, and their tastes, therefore, stay somewhat limited.

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 20 Feb 2006 7:36 am

I always heard the C neck was the "two week notice" neck...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Feb 2006 8:18 am

I too heard Doug Jernigan state..

this neck gets you to St Louis ( C6th)

this one gets you to Kroger (E9th)

this is the only reference I have ever heard regarding one to the other..

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Feb 2006 8:30 am

Lloyd Green, in the fine article about him in The Country Music Journal, had this to say about the development of the Sho-Bud LDG, SD10:

'"I played sessions in suits up until the late 60's, and the C6 neck would unravel the sleeves of my coat. Well I went to my book and counted 595 sessions on the E9 neck in the preceding 12 months. In other words, in my last six hundred sessions, I could only account for five on the C6. So in 1973, I went to Sho-Bud and talked to Shot Jackson about the idea of changing my rear neck to a pad." Six pedals and other parts from the little used neck were put in a plastic bag and weighed in at 18 pounds. The resulting design of the LDG model, with its black Naugahyde pad over an absent fretboard, aims to preserve the double-neck's tone benefits, while eliminating entirely its high-tensile coat abraders, or "strings."

Reduced, on the face of it, to half of the musical hardware of most of his peers, Green proceeded to play all shades of country-including western swing (ironically) on his first post neck removal session for Danny Davis-with a single tuning. "Most (swing) players think you're impotent on E9," Green says. "You can play anything you want on E9. The problem lies in avoiding THINKING. You don't have to think as much with more pedals, more necks, more redundancy." He uses pre-pedal era slants to achieve subtle effects at a tight-rope walker risk level most players would just as soon not assume.'
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 20 February 2006 at 08:38 AM.]

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Feb 2006 8:43 am

Perhaps info on this can be found in the archives, but I'll ask it here, bearing in mind the comments above from the great Mr. Green: When the double neck guitar was developed, why would the neck that is typically not used very often be the one closest to you, and the neck most players use the vast majority of the time, be the one farther away from the player?

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 20 February 2006 at 08:44 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 20 Feb 2006 9:32 am

I think so the audience could see what you are doing better. When you are playing the back neck, the audience thinks you are just sitting there counting your pennies.

Erv

Ronnie Green · Post by **Ronnie Green** » 20 Feb 2006 9:44 am

Pennies is exactly right. The E9th is the Monday to Friday blue collar neck. The C6th is a weekend neck for your enjoyment.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 20 Feb 2006 10:35 am

Amen!

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 20 Feb 2006 10:49 am

Ronnie-Well said!...al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Feb 2006 12:04 pm

I heard the phrase from Jim Cohen, but he said, "C6 is the fun neck, and E9 is the money neck." Jim's such a young guy, I'm sure he heard it from some bald-headed old-timer.

I also remember Jim commenting that on E9 your feet stay on the ABC pedals, and you don't need to see them. When you lean back a little to play the C6 neck, you can keep up with your feet on the pedals easier. Not that C6 players stare at their feet, but you can sort of keep up with them out of the corner of your eye. Also, it seems to be that on multi-neck non-pedal steels in the '50s, the C6 or A6 neck was the most commmonly used, and most likely to be the near neck. Whereas, an E7 or E9 neck was used less, and more likely to be a far neck. When people started adding pedals, maybe they just kept the familiar arrangement of necks. Just guessing on that - I wasn't there. Like Jim, I'm still a young thing.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Feb 2006 12:15 pm

David, I expressly diavow knowledge of anything attributed to me. I wasn't there and, even if I was, I can't recall. Fun neck? Money neck? I'm sorry, your honor, but I just can't recall that...

Paul Papanek · Post by **Paul Papanek** » 20 Feb 2006 5:45 pm

The thing that blows me away about the Lloyd Green article that Mark shared with us is the line about 595 sessions in the preceeding 12 months!! Geesh!!!

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 20 Feb 2006 6:29 pm

365 days, 595 sessions. Just goes to show when you good, you don't have to bragg....somebody else will.

Bill

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 20 Feb 2006 11:47 pm

And that was just on the E9 neck-there were the other 5 on the C6 neck. Those alone might be a year's worth for some of the part-timers here!

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Mark

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 21 Feb 2006 3:00 am

Best of both worlds on the S-12U. Standard E9th is there along with the back neck all in one. I think the "Nashville Sound" is pretty much related to the basic E9th tuning. But if you get in a western swing environment, then you still have the B6th(C6th) to play with. I've always heard it referred to as the "Bread & Butter" neck(E9th). Certainly been my case when I've done studio work over the years. Yet to use C6th in a session. Most studio people I get calls from want the "Commercial Sound", which in most cases is nothing more than E9th sounds they've heard on radio,etc. But that's ok, as long they sign the checks, I'll get'em whatever they want. When I cash one of the checks and go to Wal-Mart, they don't ask if it's E9th or C6th money. They just take it. I believe it all relates back to the old lap steel tunings anyway.

John Drury · Post by **John Drury** » 21 Feb 2006 3:50 am

I remember back at one of my first few lessons from George Edwards I asked about the two necks and he referred to them as,
"Show, and Dough".

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John Drury
NTSGA #3

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 23 Feb 2006 10:36 pm

99.9% of what I play is C6th,because I LOVE it.Most people like it after being exposed to it,It's entirely different from what they are used to hearing.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 24 Feb 2006 10:54 pm

I know exactly why the E9-Tuning is on the neck fartherest away from the player! Now, wouldn't an LDG l©©k funny with the pad on the Front~Half of the cabinet? Besides that, it would be utterly useless! With Chalker, it made no difference, because; he never rested anyway! Dah! Seriously though, there really is a good reason for the E9-Tuning to be on the far~neck. With all the KL's and extra pedals on the C6th. tuning, it's just more practical for the space available.There's just more room to work on the near~neck and parts just seem to fall into place better! It also makes it a bit easier to relax while playing.

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“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
’05 D–10 Derby
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Feb 2006 11:13 pm

I play 100% C6th because i enjoy it, and the type of music i play leans towards C6th. Not sure about the money bit, i have always played C6th, and i did pretty well. I don't care much for anything commercial, and that goes for my music as well.

Lee Jeffriess · Post by **Lee Jeffriess** » 24 Feb 2006 11:28 pm

Ahmen, George.
Lee

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 25 Feb 2006 8:35 am

someone also said there is no money above the fifth fret..cant remember who

Doug Childress · Post by **Doug Childress** » 25 Feb 2006 2:28 pm

I was sitting in the Benoit Room in Dallas watching Doug Jernigan warm up on a new ZUM. After playing awhile on the C6 he said "well I'd better get up here on the Kroger neck" and promptly swithched to the E9th.