So why are we?

Vance Monday · Post by **Vance Monday** » 29 Dec 2005 5:43 pm

I'll just add my two cents for what it's worth. I play steel for four different opry shows in Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, and Iowa. The people who attend those shows want classic country music. When I play an instrumental, it had better be a tune they can pat their feet to and hum along with. I have tried to play some of the stuff I play at home that is more modern but it doesn't sell on opry shows. I like most all kinds of music but if I want to work and get paid, I play classic country..This may change sometime soon as the classic country crowd is dying off and there isn't anyone to replace them so maybe everyone will get to play what they want in the future.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 29 Dec 2005 6:23 pm

"classical music at least on a piano never changes"

Calvin, you have obviously never heard of Glenn Gould.

Bobby Caldwell · Post by **Bobby Caldwell** » 29 Dec 2005 6:53 pm

Music to me must paint pictures. I know what does that for me and that is what I listen to. The rest I don't bother with. Like Herb said, sometimes we play what we can't stand if we are to make a dollar at this business. We do our best to do it right. Then we go home and watch or listen to what knocks us out. If you are real lucky you get a gig playing what YOU like and may even get paid doing it. All in all it's better than a world void of music. Bobby

Bobby Caldwell · Post by **Bobby Caldwell** » 29 Dec 2005 6:55 pm

Music to me must paint pictures. I know what does that for me and that is what I listen to. The rest I don't bother with. Like Herb said, sometimes we play what we can't stand if we are to make a dollar at this business. We do our best to do it right. Then we go home and watch or listen to what knocks us out. If you are real lucky you get a gig playing what YOU like and may even get paid doing it. All in all it's better than a world void of music. Bobby

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 29 Dec 2005 7:48 pm

Wow an intelligent discussion....

I've got to 'third' Donny and Herb's points. It's not what genre of music is good or bad. I've heard some jazz and swing and traditional country music that gives me a headache it's so bad. But 'Touch My Heart' still gives me goose bumps.

What kills me (and causes those goosebumps to form and tears to fall) is a musician playing from the heart. Telling a story. Or painting a picture, as Bobby Caldwell describes it.

For about the last 5 years or so I have made most of my living playing out of the 'normal' genres associated with the steel guitar. I've done this because that's what *I* am feeling. It's not a judgement on anybody else. I love listening to or playing a Ray Price shuffle as much as any other steel guitar player. The fact that I don't emphasize that style in my own recordings isn't a putdown. For me, when I play that style (or western swing or steel guitar jazz standards) I find myself comparing myself against and modeling other steel players. If I play other styles, more of me comes through. I'm not for a second thinking that I am 'cooler' than more traditional steel players, I'm just following my own personal 'holy ghost'.

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www.tyack.com

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 29 Dec 2005 8:05 pm

hey i do know those classical folks take thier music serious and ifin you go ray charles on mozark those folks will bach you up side your head

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 29 Dec 2005 8:11 pm

First off, let mw say I'm very guilty of playing the same ole agro-hick steel. My biggest fear is that I don't want to loose the sound that made me want to play in the first place. In fact, I struggle with wheather I should be trying to learn something new, or play the same licks I've always been playing. Let me put it another way. What is suppose to take the place of all these great songs we learned to play, as I've seen no replacement for steel instrumentals that I grew up playing in the 70s-til now. Don't get me wrong, I love playing them but, I can only do for so long and then I tire of them. Do you guys think it has to do with the songs not being geared to lead instuments or, has music changed that much. Thanks for your thoughts.
J.C.

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 29 Dec 2005 9:02 pm

I want to play it all, but I spend a fair amount of time learning classic country steel licks and ideas. I've found that if I learn the basics, those ideas can be put in other musical settings with good result. Sometimes, playing other styles makes me learn something new out of necessity. Good music is good music.

I envy and admire BE and PF (lots of others too. Those guys can play anything you throw at them and they can slay me with old country and anything else they do. They are musicians first and steel players second.

I hope trad steel stays around forever. Its beautiful. Yet, life and music is all about change. I haven't died yet, and until I do, I'll try to put steel into any context it can fit in. I love the old stuff the most, but its not the only music on the planet. If you don't give the new a chance, its like shutting a door on future possibilities. I want to play this crazy contraption for 30 more years.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 29 Dec 2005 10:12 pm

I also find steel players fall into those who want to play the same tired stuff, and those who are more open minded to newer music.

Could it be that these players just don't have what it takes to learn newer or different stuff?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 29 Dec 2005 11:44 pm

If you want to sound different, but; don’t want to change your repetior, try doing what I’ve done recently! Reverse all your copedents and play the same material! Believe me, you won’t recognize yourself, at least for a while!!! Several times so far, I’ve asked myself: “Who is this guy”? It wasn’t planned that way, it just kinda happened!

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“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 30 Dec 2005 2:26 am

We're not supposed to like new music, unless we're new(young). It's the way it's always been, at least as far as I can remember. My parents didn't like Zep, Doors, Who,etc, with some exceptions, I don't like Dave Matthews, Phish,Television,etc,with some exceptions. It's just the way it is! I don't like Trad. Country(some exceptions of course), but I love the sound of steel. My next goal is to learn a long slow ballad)the kind I don't like) on steel. Couldn't hurt. JimP

Don Barnhardt · Post by **Don Barnhardt** » 30 Dec 2005 2:41 am

Don't you imagine Gid Tanner and "The Skillet Lickers" had this same conversation when Jimmie Rogers, Ernest Tubb, Bill Monroe etc.... came along?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 30 Dec 2005 3:54 am

Why the hell should I have to appologize for wanting to play music that the steel guitar was designed for?

No apology needed, of course.
But there is music that the steel guitar was designed for, and there is music that has been just waiting for the steel guitar to perform it. I myself like to paint pictures with music, like Bobby.

I like Big John's suggestion. Having met resistance while suggesting an unusual copedant, I realize it's up to me to determine what that setup will be for what I envision.
Piano is fixed; you can't change it (and yet new music for piano appears all the time). There are many possibilities for pedal steel, including the 'old' ones.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 30 Dec 2005 5:41 am

"But there is music that the steel guitar was designed for, and there is music that has been just waiting for the steel guitar to perform it. I myself like to paint pictures with music,"

That IS the deal right there!

I'm just a closet wannabe picker at this point in my music so my opinion is simply that, an opinion. I cherish all that old music. I love going into a cracker barrel resturaunt and hearing something by Jim or Hank that my dad's playing on. It happens everytime I go in there too. I love Buddy's stuff, Herbs old stuff on Jerry Jeff's music. All great stuff. I also really dig the blues, some classical, old southern rock and good ol southern gospel. Why should I limit my learning experience to simply one genre?

I don't do that. Two things I work on diligently as I attempt to learn steel guitar are, I try to limit my listening to other steel guitarists, (I want to develope my own sound and style) and I play all kinds of music. If I have the God given ability and talent to play this thing, I want it to bloom on it's on. Hope that makes sense. Guess in a few years I'll find out if it worked or not.

Chuck Cusimano · Post by **Chuck Cusimano** » 30 Dec 2005 10:28 am

I'm not a steel player, and probably not even a GOOD guitar player, but I like to play "What's under my fingers". Sometimes it's some of the "same old tired licks", and sometimes I say, "Wow! I wish I could have recorded that, so I can LEARN it!" But to me- Now, this is just my appraoch to music when I play it,- COMPLIMENT THE SONG- put your ego down for three minutes, and say something worth hearing, and don't over play just to keep from playing the "same old tired Licks". NO ONE knows EVERYTHING, and when one thinks there is nothing new to learn, they might as well take up a different instrument, or switch their pedal configuration, to keep the spark ignited.

This not written to start a war with anyone, or criticize someones post, just my observation.

Side note to Johnny Cox, You are an incredible player, great to work with, and very creative with the licks you play, whether I've ever heard them before or not. I never get "tired" of listening.

John Ummel · Post by **John Ummel** » 30 Dec 2005 11:23 am

Don't you imagine Gid Tanner and "The Skillet Lickers" had this same conversation when Jimmie Rogers, Ernest Tubb, Bill Monroe etc.... came along?

I love that music...there's only 12 notes, well more I guess if you're in India, and they are all good notes. Why play one style and build a box around yourself? Its ALL good. From Gid Tanner to RR..I love it all. I think its easy to get hung up on what's "NEW" and "IN"...I reject that concept. If you "get" the essence and beauty of MUSIC it will set you free from all the narrow minded preconceptions. I've seen the bumper sticker "If it ain't Country it ain't S**T" I love all kinds of country music but I can't agree with this sentiment. I also love Benny Goodman. Does the guy with that bumper sticker know how much Charlie Christian influenced the early western swing players? Why do we get so hung up on genre, or what's new (or OLD)? IT'S ALL GOOD!! Those who can embrace all music from all styles and eras will reap a great benefit.[This message was edited by John Ummel on 30 December 2005 at 11:36 AM.]

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 30 Dec 2005 11:28 am

One of the big change in music came when I was 15 year old.ROCK AND ROLL,do you people remember what people where saying about us teenagers then, and what we were telling older people about there music? Oh I loved to hear- Red River Valley

Joe[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 30 December 2005 at 11:31 AM.]

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 30 Dec 2005 11:34 am

I have read from some of the members that the opinion is that even on songs where the steel is utilized, it's pushed to the backgound these days and not so much "out front" like it used to be.

I can't argue with that but it got me to thinking about the "compliment the song" (or maybe it's "complement" the song?) comment above.

We know that Paul Franklin can play the steel guitar upside down, backwards and forwards. But sometimes his contribution to a song is not very "out front" but it's pretty subtle. Do you think this is because the producer is keeping a leash on him or he chooses to play it this way by choice?

Two of the best musicians I have ever heard in my life at being a complement to the song are Paul Franklin and Jerry Douglas, both playing instruments in the steel guitar family.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 30 Dec 2005 12:44 pm

I took up the steel guitar, about 30 yrs ago, to play "art music". At the time, trad country was too difficult for me. Last month, on one week I was playing on a contemporary opera, the following weekend I was playing with Sugarballs and the 18-Wheelers. A bit of the opposite ends of the spectrum and both audiences appreciated the steel guitar. Music is not mutually exclusive and personally, I think that the bigger the playing field, the more fun it is.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 30 Dec 2005 4:11 pm

I heard Chas Smith about twenty years ago. It was the first time I could ever hear the steel guitar clearly, and admired what he did with simple changes in forming a musicscape. It wasn't art music, it wasn't new age, it was pedal steel at it's most concise.

I'd heard Jerry Garcia, Rusty Young, Sneaky Pete, but they were parts in a song. I'd heard Leon McAuliffe, and probably Lloyd Green, Jimmy Day, and Buddy Emmons without knowing it.
So my education grows here, but it's still hard to say that steel guitar belongs to one style. I hear myself playing country figures, but I want to paint with them, not necessarily in a country context, unless it's as country music around the world.
I see a big future for steel guitar.

Darrell Owens · Post by **Darrell Owens** » 31 Dec 2005 12:47 am

The exchange of ideas like this one is what keeps me on this forum much longer than I intend.

The great musicians have always had a dedication to the purity of the instrument and were able to play the "classics" with a sense of tribute to the writers and stylists. When you hear Buddy play "A Way To Survive" you just know - It is a tribute to everything a steel guitar is supposed to be.

Then, just about the time you think you have them figured out, they will come out with something so incredible and different, it may take you a while to even figure it out - let alone like it!

The PSG is challenging to me because of the endless possibilities of the changing chords and variations. I think it is an evolving instrument, and who knows where it will go from here?

By the way, before pedals, wasn't it called "The Hawiian Steel Guitar?

Darrell Owens

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 31 Dec 2005 6:26 am

My personal interest in music has nearly always been exploration. I like to do it my way even if my way isn't as good as the original because it is how I connect with a song and become part of it.

I used to learn everything note by note and it bored me so much that I quit playing for a long time. When I began playing jazz I quickly discovered the thrill of combining form with freedom and I've never looked back. I incorporate it into every style whether it's jazz, country, blues, rock or whatever.

The result is I find a complete, satisfying playing experience regardless what I am playing. And this approach has given me my own unique, identifiable style. That's not to say that I'm a great player. In fact, this approach makes me forever a student of each instrument and that's what keeps it fresh for me.

Having said that, I still enjoy going back to my roots because those songs replay fond memories for me. On the steel, those songs are from the country rock era. On keys, it is ELP, Yes, Jimmy Smith, Pedersen, Jarrett, Corea and Hancock. On guitar it's Clapton, Hendrix and Santana.

There are players I listen to today that can play circles around some of those guys, but they set a precedent for me in my formative years as a musician. My guess is that the older I get, the more I will cling to these artists in hope of preserving my own identity in an industry that is rapidly becoming computer-based and lifeless.

I love innovation and diversity, but I also very much admire the traditionalists of the craft. They inspire me; they thrill me in their mastery of their instruments; and I would no doubt throw all my personal innovation and exploration out the window in exchange for the talent of any one of a vast number of the great country steelers, some of whom I still have the honor of reading their advice on this forum.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 1 Jan 2006 11:35 pm

E9th for country only? Fiddlesticks! I like E9th for heavy rock!

Tim Bridges · Post by **Tim Bridges** » 2 Jan 2006 6:12 am

I spent an entire afternoon in the Country Music Hall of Fame & Museum about 2 weeks ago. What was so inspiring was the evolutoin of country music. I found out just how little I know. I didn't know that it was called "hillbilly music" until ~1953. I didn't know that Ray Price introduced the shuffle beat in the 1950's, which really disturbed traditionalist. I didn't know that western swing emerged from the convergence of black jazz and country music. The BIG PICTURE was about the CHANGES in country music. So many people that were considered "mavericks" in their time were the same ones who became the superstars of that time. It's the same in any business; find something new that the consumer likes and you'll be rich. I for one like change. What would you be doing without change? Just think pre-Industrial Revolution; now we're talkin'!

If you haven't been to the CMHOF in NashVegas, you owe it to yourself to check it out if you get the chance. Did you know that Bill Monroe's F-5 Gibson mandolin was busted into 150 pieces with a fire poker? Gibson rebuilt it from the splinters and Bill Monroe completed his career with the same mandolin. Anyway...

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 2 Jan 2006 6:34 am

Hey Chas, is that Chris Spraque's "trucker country band" you're talking about?? I'd love to see that!!