As long as we're talking about Robert Randolph

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 28 Dec 2005 3:08 pm

When I time I saw Robert (I was standing about 5 feet from him) I thought he was terrific. But I've seen him on TV now a few times, and he is more or less repeating himself.

I want to see/hear what else he can do. I hope he continues to evolve as an artist. It would be real sad to see him doing the same thing 10 years from now that he's doing today.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Dec 2005 3:46 pm

uhh ohh Mike, now you've gone and done it...

and if I were to reply I would say..

How many Blues players have really changed there licks in the past 5 decades ?

But I'm not gonna reply..

I'm keepin my mouth shut on this one..

t

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 28 Dec 2005 4:12 pm

I love what he's doing (and the fact that someone like him is around), I just keep my fingers crossed and hope to see an improvement in song material,- the jam band thing gets boring quite fast for me.
The list of guest artists I saw in another thread indicates that 'something is going on' and I'd be very happy if the next CD includes the same hot playing combined with stronger material.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 28 Dec 2005 4:23 pm

REMOVED

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 28 Dec 2005 4:26 pm

I'm definitely interested in hearing what Daniel Lanois will bring to the mix (no pun intended) on the new album

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“I always knew that there was something out there that I needed to get to.
And it wasn't where I was at that particular moment."
-Bob Dylan

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Dec 2005 4:34 pm

I'm definitely interested in hearing what Daniel Lanois will bring to the mix (no pun intended) on the new album

My guess is lots and lots and lots of reverb

this is an edit to my post so it is clear:
I think Robert is already one of the true greats on the pedal steel and I'm looking forward to seeing what he comes up with next. I think Lanois should stop smoking all that pot and then maybe he would notice how distracting and predictable his productions are with that "oops the singer fell down the well" sound he uses on everything.
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Bob
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 28 December 2005 at 04:35 PM.][This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 28 December 2005 at 09:39 PM.]

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 28 Dec 2005 4:35 pm

If it wasn't for Robert Randolph, I never would have known about Aubrey Ghant. (sp?)I think he is so subtle and soulful at the same time. And don't forget Dan Tyack. I will always be grateful for that.

Having said that, I would like to hear RR play some songs like "Drown in My Own Tears", "Givin" Up" (a donny Hathaway song) or a CD of Ray Charles songs, as well as one-or-two chord jam songs he favors.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 28 Dec 2005 4:52 pm

And the fact that Robert doesn't use the pedals or knees just means he's using a pedal steel for a table steel. If he came out there with just a table steel, he might not take so much heat.

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"Drinking up the future, and living down the past"--unknown singer in Phoenix

Greg Simmons · Post by **Greg Simmons** » 28 Dec 2005 4:58 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>

My guess is lots and lots and lots of reverb<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen, and hopefully also:

<ul>
[*]some good mics</li>
[*]his LDG</li>
[/list]

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“I always knew that there was something out there that I needed to get to.
And it wasn't where I was at that particular moment."
-Bob Dylan

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 28 Dec 2005 5:04 pm

How many Blues players have really changed there licks in the past 5 decades?

Uhhh.... lots, including me. But well known examples include Junior Watson, Pete Canaris, Ronnie Earl, Duke Robillard, Anson Funderberg, Snooks Eaglin, Hubert Sumlin, Robert Cray, Jimmie Vaughn, Mike Henderson, Gatemouth Brown, I could go on.

I have a hearty laugh when players of many styles, like country, reggae, rockabilly, and others, argue "you know, all blues sounds the same". Afficionados in any style are hypersensitive to the differences, but to an outsider, everything tends to sound the same. This is certainly true in all the styles mentioned above.

In blues, at least, change tends to be evolutionary, not revolutionary. The music grew up out from under a rock where it was actively discouraged and wasn't supposed to grow - it's stubborn and will persist because in its form is one essence of human experience. Slow and steady, the latest flash in the pan doesn't count unless it gets some serious mileage. The country folks could learn a lot from this example. IMHO.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Dec 2005 5:53 pm

It's not the instrument that allows a player to change..it's the player..always is...

I'm not an outsider to the Blues, I have studied Robben Fords style for probably 20 years now..I like many, have been on the bandstands playing rock and blues well before my Steel days..my first gigs were back around 62 or 63..you do the math...

The 6 stringer has used the exact same tuning for as far back as I can recall..and I will restate, how many blues players are still playing the same licks..or at least a similar variation ?

probably most..

I am talking about playing out of the same pentatonic mode..which most every guitar player on the planet does...sure there are variations, good ones, but mostly they come from the same modes.

I'm very familiar with many of the players mentioned above, and there can be no arguement that they are each fine players, but they are mostly playing out of the same modes...with variations on the theme...

what does that have to do with what we or I play on the E9th ? It's a question..

I, like Mike, hope Robert evolves..it's good for music in general...I too hope that he does not play the same things in the next 10 year cycle..

this is not an anti RR comment..it's an observation...nobody is dissing RR..a question of what the future may bring is brought to the table..

getting back to some Blues players who HAVE changed there licks..Robben Ford for one..grows into new modes all the time..understands and plays out of different modes...Players like RF set an example..clearly raise the bar..

Most new players want to emulate SRV..not that he was not a fine player, he was..but was still a pentatonic player, yes a very good one, but still a pentatonic player..

They don't emulate RF..probably because they can't..

So the question which Mike raises and I think it is a great one..what will RR's significance be in 10 years...RR has a chance and an opportunity to really make a difference...a long term impact...

this has nothing to do with what I play on the E9th neck...

but there is a difference even on our famous E9th neck..there are a very few players out there tearing it up.., NOT playing typical AB pedal E9th... and the rest of us are wondering just what the heck they are doing.

If thats where RR is headed then he will be around for a very long time...

Most of the Country crowd (us) is playing pretty much the same stuff..I agree..Much of the Blues crowd is playing pretty much the same stuff too..

The few that are stepping out of the box are the ones that will set the new standards...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 December 2005 at 06:20 PM.]

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 28 Dec 2005 6:50 pm

Actually R.R. has a bit of a dilema in that if he does grow and evolve, he may grow faster and further than his audience can accept.

The most obvious example of this happening is when Dylan went electric. In that case his audience eventually caught up with him. R.R. might not be so lucky.

Still, I hope he follows Robbin Ford's example.

BTW at one tine Robbin Ford lived only one short block from me, but I never had the nerve to go over and introduce myself.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 28 Dec 2005 7:44 pm

"And the fact that Robert doesn't use the pedals or knees just means he's using a pedal steel for a table steel."

You must be listening to just bits and pieces. I've heard stuff where he uses pedals/knees and a clean tone, and the guy CAN play *pedal* steel. Just because he doesn't use them as much as a country pedal-masher means nothing.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 28 Dec 2005 7:51 pm

Jim,
I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me (and others) know. I'm glad to know that he uses them. I just told a guy today that he didn't. I guess I was just passing along rumors, which is too bad because there's enough b.s. going around as it is.

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 28 Dec 2005 8:05 pm

REMOVED

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 28 Dec 2005 9:47 pm

Robin Ford grew up in Ukiah just north of where Bob lives, and east of where I was. I like his playing. I prefer Jimmie Vaughans to both Robin's and Stevie's.

Music is music, just that. I like stuff others don't, and vice versa... Hooray for variety!

But I would be very, very careful talking about "the same old..." re: blues if you are playing C&W. Both genres have deep roots and that is why they are both still around.

I know why a bunch of you don't like RR and his music. And I ain't gonna say it out loud, cause I am not wanting to be the recipient of the incoming... but I hope that one day the pedal steel guitar will be playing a whole bunch of music I don't like, by people from all over the world. Just like guitars, saxes, pianos, fiddles and etc...

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 28 Dec 2005 10:56 pm

REMOVED

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 29 Dec 2005 1:19 am

I've heard RR live and on TV and if he's playing the same stuff I would think it's only because he's just playing the show he's doing at this time. The next show will probably vary to some degree as new tunes come into the band. He's young and full of it right now so he should be changing a lot I would think but then there's the fact that if he changes too dramatically, he'll lose some part of his fan base. For the musicians that listen to him like us, the change will probably be welcome but for the humanoids (non pickers) it might not be so welcome. I don't doubt for a minute that he's going to evolve into a more complex player and I'll be listening. For the ones here that don't care for him, it's probably because he's just so far out there from anything they listen to or play.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 29 Dec 2005 2:17 am

I agree that RR may very well be stuck with his current music by the audience's expectations (unless he wants to stay poor). Between TV, rap, and the death of music education, it's hard to imagine even mildly challenging listening material becoming seriously popular again anytime soon. When was the last time a band with any really interesting melodic and harmonic quirks became mainstream? The Police, in the 80's? How far do you think Yes, or the Mahavishnu Orchestra, would get in today's music climate? I seriously doubt that they could even get signed, unless they agreed to dumb it way, way down, wear funny hats and mug for the MTV cameras. Chord changes confuse people and give them headaches.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 29 Dec 2005 3:52 am

So much of this discussion is based on what the poster feels is a rut. For instance, the Campbell Brothers latest CD is really fantastic, but it is still the Campbell Brothers, in that it still contains an excellent representation of music that is in a style that they have developed over the last dozens of years. And it is also in the gospel tradition. But WHAT A RECORD. It is exactly what I want to hear from them. More of the same? Well, their not playing jazz. They are playing a mature style that has developed over a long period of time. Robert Randolph plays from the same tradition. I would assume he would continue to explore the bounderies of that style and give his take on it. But I wouldn't expect him to go off in some wild new direction. I wouldn't like it, his fans wouldn't like it. I want it to sound like Robert Randolph.

The Campbell Brothers new CD reminds me of the excitement I experienced when I first heard King Sunny Aide. Amazing music. Recognizable. Did Sunny grow? Or did he continue to put out great JuJu music?

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 29 Dec 2005 5:24 am

I remember a few years back, before Robert was famous, he had ordered some rods & a GL pickup from my little store. We talked on the phone several times after that and he asked me "did you ever hear me play?", I had not. So Robert proceeded to take the phone over to his guitar & amp and he played some very awesome stuff. His speed picking was incredible and he also played a few slow things. I know he can play regular pedal steel like us anytime he wants to, he's just into this thing thats making him money at this point. Who knows where Robert will take the steel. I do know this, he is one of the nicest fellows I have ever talked to on the phone about steel guitar. Hang in there Robert, and my offer that your always welcome to stop at my shop anytime still stands.

Ernie Pollock
PS" he even offered to let me play with him in his church, if I could get to NJ!! http://www.hereintown.net/~shobud75/stock.htm

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Mark Vinbury · Post by **Mark Vinbury** » 29 Dec 2005 7:03 am

I'll just thank him for bringing the instrument to the forefront to the extent he has.
Exposing many of us to Sacred Steel with it's spiritual side connected to music kids can get behind.My 14 and 16 year old nieces jumped right out of their seats when they first saw him with Bootsy Collins on the Grammy's

If he grows musically or displays more of his knowledge that's great.

What I really like is him inspiring and laying a groundwork for younger players to build on.Let him be the "Older Blues Cat",with a connection to somthing other than booze and drugs, who the Robben Fords (not that Robben's any youngster) can build on.

No telling where this instrument can go in the hands of kids who start ramjaming with the tunings and pedals and are already "faster than Robert Randolph"

I guess that sounds like a nightmare to some but I like it. [This message was edited by Mark Vinbury on 29 December 2005 at 11:07 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 29 Dec 2005 10:06 am

My take on RR is that he is a young man who has achieved tremondous success as an entertainer, and that is admirable in a business that chews-up and spits-out most who aspire to stardom.

In my unqualified opinion, I believe that RR's focus and success is as an entertainer rather than as a steel guitar player. Among many possible examples who have done this, is Jerry Lee Lewis who used a piano in his stage act.

I suggest that neither RR or JL would want to be known as a steel guitar player or a piano player. Both stand to incite the audience, and if RR wanted to play his guitar with his foot like Jerry Lee, I'm sure he could do it.

My point is, if there is one, is that both RR and JL might be a world-class instrumentalist if they changed their focus to an instrumentalist, if they wished to be.

Some future day when success has faded, they may wish to do so, and they then may become a world-class instrumentalist.

I hope for RR that this comes to pass.

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Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 29 Dec 2005 10:46 am

With all due respect Gene, I disagree. This goes against the importance of the Steel Guitar in the House of God worship ceremonies that RR comes out of. A tremendous amount of acclaim, pride, and respect that a player is given is based on his ability on the steel guitar. It is here where RR first achieved notority: as a player of steel guitar, not as an entertainer.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 29 Dec 2005 11:15 am

In the very fine DVD documantary Sacred Steel, there's a clip of a young RR playing steel in church. Nothing "entertaining" about that, except red-hot playing with a (relatively) clean sound and even use of the pedals.... There's a lot more to this guy than most of his critics are aware of.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com