Steelers -- Are You In the Musician's Union??

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 31 Jul 2005 8:35 pm

During my 48-years as a member of one local or another, besides actually needing it for a gig that was only during my (4)-years working the Opry, which I guess if you stretch the meaning of the word ‘Benefit’ would qualify as one, I don’t recall having to show proof of membership more than maybe once or twice. And I couldn’t identify those occasions either! It also takes a short~while for musicians here to realize that if you want to work downtown, nobody cares if you’re a member or not! I guess you could call that a perk of membership! Of any and all jobs that I have worked since ’71, the words ‘pension~fund’ were never mentioned!

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“Big John” Bechtel
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T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 1 Aug 2005 4:59 am

Bill, I don't think union reps yell and I don't have any problem with them, I was merely pointing out that in written comunication such as email or a post like this one, a statement in all caps is usually interpereted as shouting. Sorry I didn't read back carefully enough to put the name on your prior post together with it's content. I would think that as an executive board rep, you would be interested in what other unions do for their members and since the stage hands many times work in the same venues, that might be a logical place to investigate parity. As I said in my post, I had to audition in 1977 as well as have a union job lined up before I could be considered for membership. So now what is required to become a union musician in your local? Is there a skill assessment process?

Don't get me wrong, I am pro union and I am especially pro AFM (as stated in previous post I am a 28 year member) but I think all unions are plagued with problems to some degree. In the end, the union must take the responsibility of providing value for it's members and it's signatories. My union has gotten progressively weaker in the last fifteen years. I know the board is working hard to reverse the trend and I applaude them for it. It is a very complicated situation, but I think it probably boils down to the fact that there are more musicians than there is legitimate work, and the union has done a poor job in reaching enough musicians to "build the ranks" to the point that a union contract is the norm. Create the value and they will join.

TC

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 1 Aug 2005 5:42 am

TC Thanks for your support.

Bechtel. If your local does not have in place the pension plan for casual gigs then the only way that you participate in the pension fund is if your name is on a contract filed recording date. If you have not done these for a specific amount over a specific time period, then you might not be vested in the pension plan. Go back and look up in your records the recording dates you have done and call the office in Nashville to see where you stand.

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 1 Aug 2005 6:20 am

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Seems I opened up a can of worms, eh?

My initial questions derive from the standpoint of "what can the union provide for me?" In other words, if I am going to lay out an initiation fee and the first annual dues payment (totaling close to $200), what should I expect in return?

Certianly, aside from a benefit of perhaps buying some insurance for my gear, I would expect that the union might be a gateway into some gigs I would not otherwise know about. Say, for example, one of the country radio stations needs to record some tags/promos and needs a steel player. Or a country act comes into town and needs a steel player for a gig.

From what I am seeing...this does not happen. Well.....it DOES, but it seems so sporadic and regional that it may not be worth taking a chance on it here in Indy.

I can see that some of the union members feel that the union is only as strong as its members. Personally, I do not want to join something that isn't strong in the first place...I have enough to do with a regular full-time job, weekly band practices and weekly gigs to have to worry about creating a useful and powerful union....let alone paying close to $200 to do so. Thus, if the union provides me with at least $200 of benefits, then I will join (and to me, those benefits can really only come in the way of seeing paying gigs come my way). If not, then it seems it may not be a sensible outlay of cash for the average honky-tonk musician.

Perhaps the AFM is of better benefit for those in the classical music field?

Joe

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 1 Aug 2005 6:40 am

TANSTAAFL
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 1 Aug 2005 11:23 am

Local #180, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

I should add that I don't work as a steel player on union jobs too often, as it's easy to make alot more than union scale regardless, even with my mediocre skills on the instrument.
It's the jazz guys, and symphony cats who need the protection. They've spent a lifetime perfecting a demanding skill which the public seems unwilling to pay for with much more than a smile and a bag of chips.

-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 1 Aug 2005 1:03 pm

I should add that I have found it a requirement to be an AFM member - a recent example was a week that I played at the Kodak Theatre in Hollywood, CA. A few years back I was in California for a three week run of a show at La Mirada Theatre - they, too, asked that we all be members in good standing. In that particular case, I must also say that the money was excellent as a result!

RR

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 1 Aug 2005 3:09 pm

I was a memeber of Local 6 here in SF for about seven or eight years in the late 80's- early 90's. I plan- at some future point- to reinstate my memebrship- but I didn't have a lot of return for the time & energy I invested IN the union. (worked one contract, which made a decent wage for a festival gig and then found myself non-invited back to the same gig the next year when my friend in their management group was "relocated")- On some levels, membership IS worthwhile, but you shouldn;t feel that it is preclusive of your goingto take "non-scale" gigs in between-
(so I was told by another memebr!)
Financial difficulties in the 90's and early 00's forced me to leave it off there "for the future" but things are looking up these days- I well may be doing the reinstatement within the year.
I would say that having the backup OF the contract is great when you are dealing with people who MAY NOT pay you, or who feel like you ought to pay THEM for the favor of "exposure"- it really depends on your market and who you think your client base will be, and if THEY are accustomed to dealing with union contracts (I think) - if they have little experience with it, chances are, they are either new at it, or playing the angles against musicians...One other advantage is having the free utilization of legal advice from union lawyers when going over contracts for the fine print. I got saved a real embarrassing situation (one of those "pay for play" operations- this one, a "compilation recording"- by bringing it to the union lawyers First.

John Ummel · Post by **John Ummel** » 1 Aug 2005 8:51 pm

I think it depends on the local. I first joined the musicians union in a small town, a "cow town" I guess you'd say. The union was very much involved with the local musicians, the guys playing the clubs. When the house band I was in folded, I went down to the local, put my name on the blackboard, pedal steel player looking for work, had a call next day.(Wound up working in Casper, Wyoming for a stint) But then I moved to the "Big City" and the union locals were completely different, or I should say INdifferent. I saw that and declined to join and have never regretted it. I have never been refused a gig I was interested in doing because I wasn't a union member. So, IMHO it really depends on where you are, what part of the country, what kind of community.
God Bless all you steel pickers out there, your music makes this world a better place.

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johnny
GFI Ultra S-10 3&4, G&L ASAT, Jackson Dinky Hardtail, homemade solid body electric violin w/ Zeta pickup, homemade 100W amp w/ 12" Jensen. As Bill Monroe once told me: "Don't never give up"

Gene H. Brown · Post by **Gene H. Brown** » 2 Aug 2005 7:46 pm

Anyone ever hear Charlie McCoy do a song called "Everybody stand up and hollar for the Union", that has to tell it like it really is. I was a member for 2o some odd years and never got anything but a little less rich by paying my dues every month. It's one of the biggest scams there is as far as I am concerned.

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If You Keep Pickin That Thing, It'll Never Heal!

Michael Garnett · Post by **Michael Garnett** » 2 Aug 2005 9:02 pm

I'm new to this union thing myself, but I think about it like this:

Why should I pay someone money just so they can tell me where I can and can't play? Isn't this a free country? I can do whatever I want, as long as it's not against the law. How could someone walk up to me and legally say, "I'm sorry, you're not a part of our little group, you can't work here unless you pay me." I really hope something like that never happens to me, I'm the kind of person to raise hell.

And I think that using Lloyd Green as an example of the great way things work with the union's benefits and insurance is irresponsible. Surely he was treated better than most of the road warriors and session players out there because of his prowess and fame.

-MG

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 3 Aug 2005 9:31 am

I first joined the Union in Ventura, California in 1963 as I had to belong to work a club job I was offered, after a while I moved to the LA area and joined local 47 for a while until I moved to Texas in the middle 70's. I joined the union back there as the dues were only $34.00 per year in the Wichita Falls local (681 I think). I stayed with that local for about 10 years after I moved back to LA and just continued to work off that card which was cool. When I moved to Virginia in the middle 80's I thought I'd keep my card but the local merged with Local 72-147 in Fort Worth/Dallas and the dues went up a bunch. I paid 'em for a couple of years and then just quit paying them so I'm suspended now I guess. I'm still on the rolls as a suspended member 'cause I checked a few months ago to see what it's cost me to get back up to date but I don't think I'll do it. Virginia is a Right To Work State so unions don't do you any good here....JH in va.

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It's all on 12, who needs 20!

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 4 Aug 2005 4:03 pm

I have beeb in the union fifty four years. There were times that I couldn't have played if I didn't have a card.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 9 Aug 2005 11:59 am

I have played on TV, done lots of recording sessions in studios of all sorts, and played all manner of live shows, probably in the neighborhood of 125 + a year, with no help whatsoever from a union. None of the other freelance pickers I know here in NYC are in the union either.

I am opposed to unions in ANY industry, I am perfectly happy to scare up work by myself, if I get locked out of a jingle gig or something of that sort because I am not in the union then c'est la vie.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 9 Aug 2005 12:12 pm

Here's a question to anyone who might know the answer(s).

Are the top pickers such as BE, Franklin, Tommy White, Lloyd Green, and others, members of the Musicians Union? Why?[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 09 August 2005 at 01:14 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 Aug 2005 12:56 pm

Gerald,
I'm in the union (local 802) and a good number of the people I play with are in the union also in nyc. Work on the card is a much better deal than work off the card.

How much did you get paid for that tv show you played ?

How big are those checks you get sent every time that show is played ? Oops, I forgot you have no bargaining power so when they resell your work (in reruns) they don't pay you anything.

The union has its problems but I see nothing morally wrong with the concept of people getting together so they don't get screwed.

Bob

Rich Mounce · Post by **Rich Mounce** » 10 Aug 2005 5:18 am

After years of playing on the road I can tell you I never had any venue say that if I was Union I couldn't play but had several of them say we MUST be Union to play the venue. I was an active board member of Local 102 Bloomington, Il until our small Union joined with Pekin, Il. I really believe that it depends on your individual Local. I had several gigs that the Union got my money when the puchaser could not or would not pay the contract. I always did feel that our local was out on its own as far as the National AMF. We never had "audtions" to join but I also think that we had some who joined who should not have been considered professional players. I know that in some people's minds if you are making money you are professional. Not in all cases but that is another post. Just my humble opinion.

Rich Mounce http://takeoff.to/steeljam

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Aug 2005 5:49 am

Jim P.

I can guarantee you that these top players are members of the Union.

Why? First because they are pro players and second they work contracts that assure them a contribution into the best pension plan in America--fully funded with 1.7 billion dollars, not some wacked out stock voodoo or pay out at the same time others pay in like most companies in America do. Read back up into this thread to John Hugheys' remarks. He is talking about recieving his retirement pension. They work contracted recordings that recieve mechanical payments that are divided up at the end of the year and paid to these guys for their work on sessions for CDs or movies or TV or whatever. The list of top players and rock stars and country stars and opera stars and symphonic players is like a who's who of the cream of the crop in America. You don't have to be in this league of folks to be a member or to benefit from the Musicians Union. There are thousands of just plain working/giging players also.

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 10 Aug 2005 6:31 am

Jim,every one of the players you mentioned is a member of the union.(edited because of a grammatical error)

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[This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 10 August 2005 at 07:33 AM.]

Richard Bass · Post by **Richard Bass** » 10 Aug 2005 7:24 am

I've been a member of 257 here in Nashville since 1965. Without the union I wouldn't have a pension or collect residuals from sessions and movie work. The union never got me a job, but I didn't expect it too. Plus the insurance will bury me!!
Richard

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 10 Aug 2005 7:41 am

I'm a union man...local 802 AFM, New York, NY....the town so nice, they named it twice.

john widgren · Post by **john widgren** » 10 Aug 2005 7:43 am

also afm loc 257 Nashville, transferred to 802 in good standing...JW

My union affiliation allows me to get professional insurance on all my stuff. Coverage goes way beyond homeowners riders, and is cheaper. [This message was edited by john widgren on 10 August 2005 at 08:51 AM.]