Musicians playing for nothing

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 30 Mar 2005 8:39 pm

My 5 piece band tries for $100 a man, usually it's 75 a man. We're talking clubs, casuals always pay lots more. My regular every other Sat gig is 50 a man plus a meal and drinks, but it is a really fun gig. My wife and I have made almost 20 grand there in the last 10 years, plus the many gigs we got from referals from the main gig. A steady gig is worth a lot! Even on our worst months, we always have 2 gigs to count on. JP

John Davis · Post by **John Davis** » 30 Mar 2005 11:17 pm

I`m with Bob on this one
"I just like to play so if there are no money gigs I play gigs for fun."
If I play the show I can get my $190 +hotel+diesel But I have to sit there gritting my teeth playing over tracks that already have some steel on some of them! this is the end of the line in frustration and I suffer it purely for the $$$. But if I had my preferance it would be a different band every night of the week!! nothing beats live playing IMO and the rush you get when your half of the solo comes out good on somthing you have never played before!!
The track thing feels like some sort of prostitution!but I won`t let them shut me up!
Just come out louder and louder.....blow that track away (where I can)until they give me the push..........

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 31 Mar 2005 5:45 am

Kevin,
When you have so many musicians in Nashville you'll work for tips or they'll call another player that will.

By the way, you can make good money on lower broad playing for tips!

If your luckly you can park on the street or in a garage for $3.00 to $5.00 Things aren't that bad in Nashville!

Michael Breid · Post by **Michael Breid** » 31 Mar 2005 6:09 am

I was very blessed to land a gig that has lasted for twenty-three years at a music show here in Eureka Springs, but if I had to make it busking or playing restaurants in town I would starve. They want to pay $15-$20 for a four hour gig, and then if they throw in a meal they won't to pay you less. I had a one man band thing I did at a local restaurant during a Sunday Brunch where I got $20 an hour and a meal for a two hour gig. It was going well until one day I set up my gear and the manager came out and said, "We don't have any place to put you". They had put tables and chairs in the little spot in the corner where I was supposed to set up. I told them if they needed me to call me(sarcasticly)and packed up and left. I haven't been back. That was five years ago. They promise you the moon when business is down, and then when the crowd builds up they suddenly tell you they can't afford you or don't want music anymore. They are raking in the dough, but they don't want to pay you squat. It's not just in GnashTrash, or Florida gang, it's that way all over. And with the economy going down the toilet, they have all sorts of excuses why they can't pay you a decent wage. If you try to busk on the streets the city requires a license if you sell CD's or tapes. They used to require a license if you just played for tips, but they dropped that. They want their cut. Then some of the merchants will call the cops on you and say you are too loud and and are causing them to lose business. Most all of the good musicians have gone on to other places to avoid all the hassle. It's almost "d***ed if you do and d***ed if you don't. Everybody's got their hand out wanting a piece of your action or if they aren't getting it they want you outta there. It's really getting tight. And we are supposed to be a tourist friendly community. People enjoy the street buskers and the "dinner music" in the restaurants. It all boils down to local establishments being just toooooo greedy. What a shame. I wonder if it's any better in Minnesota?

Al Miller · Post by **Al Miller** » 31 Mar 2005 9:25 am

Teresa!! And Everyone
Your Are Right !!
Things Arent that bad in Nashville
And I Have Made A Few Dollars In Tips on A good Night.. And That Statment About There Are So Many Players That We Have to Play For Tips Is Very True .. And There Is More than enough gigs to go around For Steel Players that is .. But When I Play for 4 Hours With Out A Bathroom Break and am Told I Cant Because I Will And Can Be replaced And get $20-$50 Dollars For Those 4 hours And There Were 300 Screaming College Kids Buying Beer
the Entire Time..( Im Sure The Till Made Enough To Pay Us More Than A twenty dollar Base Pay).. Dont forget The Music And The Musicians Are The reason Those 300 Screaming College Kids yelling For Pantera On Broadway In Nashville Are The Reason They Are Selling Beer And Such And The reason There Doors Are Still open.. Take the music Away from Them And They Will Go Else where..
Just My two Cents
And I hope I Didnt Offend Any of the Guys And Gals Stuggeling To Make Ends Meet In Those Clubs On Broadway I Have The Utmost Respect For them All And Wish Them Success..
Boo Miller

Dave Giegerich · Post by **Dave Giegerich** » 31 Mar 2005 9:28 am

A friend of mine had a weekly jazz gig every Monday at a local bar. Since it was Monday, usually an open night for musicians, he could hire the top local guys. This gig paid around $50/man plus tips. The sax man was a killer player but very serious guy who had a good day job. During breaks he would always make one trip around the bar with the tip jar before relaxing. He didn't pressure people, but just by walking by he reminded them that the band counted on the tips for part of their income.
One night a society lady was slumming at the bar and when he came by with the jar she said, "Look at you! A grown man out begging for money! What do you do all day?"
Without missing a beat or cracking a smile the sax player said, "I put on a coat and tie and beg for money".

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 31 Mar 2005 9:58 am

What about the Musicians Union? I assume they are in the major music areas? What exactly do you get for paying your dues?

Robby Springfield · Post by **Robby Springfield** » 31 Mar 2005 10:01 am

First let me say that I, (we, our family), have been so blessed by God that it is hard to believe. My dad always paid me to play in his band and taught me early on to set a price for playing music so that got me used making money. But to be able to live where we want to live and survive mostly through playing music, having the time to spend with kids at ballgames, and enjoy your wife as the both of you grow older, has got to be just about as good as it gets. Of course I wouldn’t turn down the $500,000. home and the sports car either but I wouldn’t trade evenly!

Through most of my career as a musician I have been after all I could get for a gig, what ever the job was, and that became as much of me as playing itself. Do you ever wonder how things would be if there was no monetary system and we didn’t have to worry about paying for something, or being paid for what we do? Makes you kind of want to grab Adam and say, “WHAT WERE YOU THIKING!!!” Anyway, we all need money to make it through this life…so you do what you have to and if you are blessed, you get to do something you love and get paid for doing it at the same time. Control of financial situations is nothing more than an illusion anyway and better left in the hands of God for the believer.

The older I get, the more I realize that I would still play music even if there was no money involved. It is a gift from God in heaven and should be shared.

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Robby
www.power3productions.com

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 31 Mar 2005 10:51 am

What about the Musicians Union?

DON'T GET ME STARTED ON THAT!!!

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What exactly do you get for paying your dues?

A receipt,&,maybe,MAYBE,a handshake,& a "thank you"!

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
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Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 31 Mar 2005 11:13 am

Smiley, you get a handshake at your local?

Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 31 Mar 2005 2:47 pm

This really is a very serious problem and it can only be solved by a highly organized and motivated musicians union, perhaps not as it currently exists.
Musicians need and want to play live and club owners know and exploit that fact.
If the club owners were FORCED by law to only hire union musicians, and anyone who wanted to play music seriously, joined that union, the union could set minimum rates and the problem would be solved.
I don't know any other way to accomplish it.

Casey Lowmiller · Post by **Casey Lowmiller** » 31 Mar 2005 2:55 pm

That's the way to do it Tony!!! It used to be that you'd get paid Union Scale so you were at least guaranteed that much...especially at large venues! Contracts were filled out and the problem was solved.

Casey

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Known Coast to Coast as
"The Man with The Plan"

Fender Pedal 800, Fender Champion & a Homemade Double-neck!

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 31 Mar 2005 2:57 pm

If the club owners were FORCED by law to only hire union musicians, and anyone who wanted to play music seriously, joined that union, the union could set minimum rates and the problem would be solved.

Remind me to call my broker in the morning and buy 1000 shares of Amalgamated Karaoke Machines.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 31 Mar 2005 3:55 pm

No don't bother Jon, in this law, karaoke machines would be subject to a $1000 fine!!

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 31 Mar 2005 4:06 pm

Karaoke,,, Japanese for "Tone Deaf"
At least around here that's what it seems like!
Larry

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 31 Mar 2005 4:13 pm

I've always been pretty pro-union in general, and the AF of M is useful in setting recording and TV scales and things like that. But in my experience anytime they try to get involved at the bar and club level (as they do here from time to time) they just screw things up; jobs disappear completely or players themselves get disciplined for playing! And as Theresa pointed out players do sometimes make decent money at "tip-jar" gigs... It's just not a cut and dried or black and white thing; people do sometimes play club gigs for fun, or to help friends out... I played here the other night for a friend who's trying to get noticed as a singer; she made no money at this particular gig but paid us out of her own pocket. I've been playing steel for a living for 30 years now, and it seems to me the sad fact is that it is no longer that realistic to expect to make a living just playing bar and club gigs as one could 20 years ago... There's exceptions of course but times have changed and most of the reasons have been brought up here before: so many other entertainment options, DUI enforcement, karaoke... There's nothing any stricter musicians union could do about it other than convince some of the places that do still have bands not to bother at all...

All just my humble opinion of course...

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 31 Mar 2005 5:29 pm

I worked briefly in LA in the early '90's and you actually had to buy the tickets for your show and sell them to get your money... book the gig, pay the club IN ADVANCE, and hope you fill it up to get a little money back out of it. Outrageous

Did this for 2 years, I got paid as a hired gun, but the band shelled out a pretty penny. And this was all based on the 'hope' that 'possibly' some A and R guy 'might' be in the audience and offer a contract.
I think as human beings we are so gullible and naive,

that we think we can defy the odds, and beat the house, and win the game. I guess that ignorance is truly bliss.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 31 Mar 2005 5:46 pm

There isn't a union on the planet that can help people that refuse to look out for themselves in any trade. Musicians are a prime example.

Also, people that say that "the money isn't important" are in direct conflict when they solicit tips. None of the bands I play with even have a "tip jar". I think it's kind of tacky. Jars for donated money should go to Jerry's Kids.

Someone recently told me that because I don't put money in tip jars, that I was taking the side of the clubowners. I'm still scratching my head over that one..

Bless their hearts.

EJL

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 31 Mar 2005 7:30 pm

It's economics and it's sad to realize that average gigs seem to pay about $50. To make $50K a year you have to play A THOUSAND GIGS -- that's almost THREE GIGS A DAY just to make what most folks consider a reasonable wage.

Sad, but true. Nobody I know is making a reasonable living playing bars anymore.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 31 Mar 2005 8:45 pm

My first association with the Musician's Union was n 72. I was playing a club--long standing gig--and one day the leader of the band said that we all have to join the Union to keep working there. Well, back in those days, the musicians union was in cahoots with other unions, so they could have beer and food distributors stop deliveries if they didn't pay the band scale.

However, that practice was outlawed and the union lost its leverage. Next thing, hack bands figured out if they charged half as much as a good band, the club would hire them, and we got into musician's cutting each others throat for gigs. That killed any hope of keeping scale going in the clubs.

When the union stopped doing anything except show up for their cut on Saturday night, I bailed. At least they get still get scale for the session guys in Nashville, but on a local level the union has no power over the venues.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 31 Mar 2005 10:38 pm

You want the low end of a low end gig????????

How about three, one hour sessions at a mall playing back up for six little girls dressed in fake grass skirts trying to hula dance?

Any guesses what the mall's theme was that day?????? And, do you realize how many mall people want to touch or pluck a few guitar strings? Or; “Do you know how to play ??????” Or, better still, little horrors crawling under the rope and cranking the knobs on the amp or pushing on the little red light?

All for $30.00 for two musicians. One ukulele and a steel and, you had no idea what you were getting in for until you were set up and in the midst first session.

Is this the way all you steelers started out????????????????

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Keith DeLong · Post by **Keith DeLong** » 1 Apr 2005 3:52 am

We have an active music scene here in the Halifax Nova Scotia area, unfortunately the bars will aonly pay enough for duos or trios so you get the small groups with the programmed stuff running behind them. If I want to play steel I will go out and sit in for a few hours with a band just for the fun of it and a chance to practice, but then I can stay as long as I want and play when I want.It's always been tough for steel players, last hired, first fired if you have to cut back. I do a lot of paying gigs playing electric guitar, but the money isn't what it was 10-15 years ago.

Jimmie Misenheimer · Post by **Jimmie Misenheimer** » 1 Apr 2005 6:01 am

Smiley - you got a handshake from the local? If you got a whole hand that ain't bad. All I ever got from ours was one finger... Jimmie

Jim Hartley · Post by **Jim Hartley** » 1 Apr 2005 6:21 am

Len's original post was about Florida and Jack, I hate to hear about the decline in the Florida music scene. I was born and raised in Florida and from the time I was 14 or 15, I was working just about all I could. At that time, late 60's and early 70's, Florida was somewhat of a hotbed for country music with conventions and clubs to play everywhere.

In "87 I moved back to Florida from Tennessee and had two years or so of some of the best music ever. I actually had to take a leave of abscence from my job, I didn't have time to work. I was playing 6 to 8 jobs a week, usually at $100 or more. What really made it great though, nearly every job had either Gary Morse or the late Gene O'Neal on steel. Sometimes Gene on steel and Gary on guitar. What a great time it was, I hate to hear it's not that way anymore.

Let's all hope it gets better everywhere. I think it will.