Lets induct the "Hippie" Steelers into the SGHOF

tom anderson · Post by **tom anderson** » 5 Oct 2004 9:13 pm

Since I started this thread, Bobby Black has been inducted into the SGHOF. Conratulations & much deserved! Although next year's inductee has probably already been chosen, I still want to encourage eveyone to print out the nominating form & submit Sneaky Pete, Rusty Young, Al Perkins, Buddy Cage, Jerry Garcia, John David Call & any of the other Hippie Steelers to be m=nominated together. No other steelers have had more influence in the last 40 years! I would love to see all of them inducted & playing the Saturday afternoon set (except for Jerry of course!). Country Rock lives.

tom anderson · Post by **tom anderson** » 5 Oct 2004 9:25 pm

Al Perkins was the steeler on Gram Parson's version of "Ohh Las Vegas". Hank DiVito was on Emmy Lou's version. Al was also the only steeler in Manassas. I heard Rusty Young tell a great story about Gram Parsons when Rusty plays with Poco, about he & Gram & Richie Furay going to Disneyland with Gram in a dress & being refused entrance into Disneyland. I miss more of Rusty's playing on the steel guitar. I hear reports that he is disillusioned with it a little bit. The last time I saw him with Poco he only played steel on "Heart of the Night" & chimed the entire song. It was fantastic.

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 6 Oct 2004 2:35 am

Ive said it before, Buddy Cage is the most famous steel player of my generation. His name was associated with steel guitar, by everybody back then, (not just musicians either). You couldnt get in car or van back then that didnt have a New Riders 8 track layin on the floor or on the dash. I dont see why there there would be any resistance by anyone to induct Mr. Cage in the hall of fame.Hey, maybe this hall of fame, oughta have a little more to do wth having been famous? my 2 cents. bob

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Oct 2004 6:38 am

This really is not about the future of steel guitar, which is not under the control of the SGHOF board, but is about the future and relevance of certain institutions such as the SGHOF and the conventions. Are they going to keep type-casting the instrument exclusively in the subgenre of country and western music, or are they going to recognize the emergence of steel guitar as an international and universal instrument that can play any type of music? It should be in their minds that the original generations of country-western steelers will not live forever, and that a very large group of younger country and rock steelers will replace them in numbers.

It is a great tribute to country-western music that it gave birth to and evolved the steel guitar, especially the pedal steel. But if these institutions cannot become more expansive and recognize the steel in all the genres where it is played, they are effectively cutting themselves out of the bigger picture, and they might as well change their name to the country and western steel guitar hall of fame, and the conventions should be called country and western steel guitar conventions. There's nothing wrong with having a dedicated specialty genre outlook like that, as long as you are honest about it. If that's what those who run these things want, then there is a huge need to start other institutions with a broader vision.

Okay, but let's draw the line at Jerry Garcia. A great musician, yeah; a great steeler...naah. Give him a commendation for promoting the instrument, then move on.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 06 October 2004 at 07:44 AM.]

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 6 Oct 2004 8:32 am

I didn't know Herb was a hippie...

Winnie Winston · Post by **Winnie Winston** » 6 Oct 2004 7:17 pm

Eric says:

"Seems a famous steel player is pictured somewhere wearing one, and durned if I can remember who it was. Can somebody help?"

Yeah. My book. Page 35. BE is wearing a nehru jacket AND beads.

JW

Louie Hallford · Post by **Louie Hallford** » 7 Oct 2004 3:01 pm

This has been a very interesting topic to me.I was in St Louis several years ago when Buddy Cage preformed. Was it different. Very much so. For me the music was from a completely different culture than I was familiar with. Did I like the music? I confess I did not neither have I become a big fan. I did stay for the entire show because I found such a different venue for the steel guitar than I had ever seen or heard.Did I recognize that the talent of the group and definitely Buddy Cage was exceptional? Yes I admit I did.

During the weekend I was fortunate to have met Buddy. I found him to be very friendly,very generous with his time,and very enjoyable to visit with.

Seeing response to this post and seeing an example of how many people he has influenced,I must agree that he is a definite candidate for the HOF. Wille Nelson made it into the Country Music HOF without looking and playing the same music as the rest of the crowd so whats new?

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 7 Oct 2004 3:23 pm

I've been talking to Bleetstien, who pretty much manages the NRPS stuff now, and we may try to write this up.

Here's the thing....One of the requirements, and it's a big one, is what you've done to further the understanding and use of the instrument. They mean teaching, writing courses, playing at conventions, etc. Buddy doesn't do any of that. (and when he does, it raises eyebrows, and tempers) his main contribution has been to influence a ton of folks (like me, and most here on this thread) to pick up the instrument and explore it's roots. So we'd need a ton of testimonials from everyone who was influenced by him to learn to play, or whose style was influenced by him. That's his contribution-young players. You really haven't seen anyone upfront like he was till recently with RR. Why? well, it takes a certain attitude I guess, and the right band. If you want to start emailing them to me, I'll get them assembled, and work on getting the rest put together. Got some pretty big names who will contribute letters.
JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

kbdrost · Post by **kbdrost** » 7 Oct 2004 4:49 pm

Got to post my vote here. When Sweetheart of the Rodeo came out in 1997, I , like most my age, panned it as a bunch of honky trash. How could a hip band like the Byrds play this sh@! without throwing up?

Three years later, I heard CSNY's Deja Vu and TYC. I couldn't believe how sweet and wonderful it sounded. I looked in the liner notes and saw that Jerry Garcia was playing this "pedal steel guitar" and remembered the sounds of the Byrds album earlier. I dug it out, gave the tunes another listen, and the rest was history. It led me to NRPS, the Burrito Bros., CC&LPA, PPL, Poco, etc., etc., and eventually back to the same "honky trash" that I was dissing only a few short years previously.

These "hippie steelers" were it for me. I would support any one of them for SGHOF. I was so glad to see Jay Dee come in last year and Bobby Black this year, and finally got my chance to meet and talk to both of them. Let's not lose the momentum now. IMHO, some of the recent nominees have been a stretch in terms of their current relevance. It's time for the Baby Boomers out there to assert ourselves and get some recognition for those who really influenced us.

------------------
Ken Drost
steelcrazy after all these years
[This message was edited by kbdrost on 07 October 2004 at 05:56 PM.]

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 9 Oct 2004 12:38 pm

Some topics never die, just like some old hippies...
Let me tell you another example why Buddy Cage is not just another "hippie" steeler but truly in a class of his own. I just listened to a NRPS live recording from 1973 and during one of those interminably long breaks between songs (maybe they had to make up their minds about what to play next) Cage apparently got bored and kicked off a rendition of "The Preacher", a C6 tune that Buddy Emmons played on the "Steel Guitar Jazz" album, with the drummer, Spencer Dryden, quickly joining in. And he did it well, not just copying BE´s licks but interpreting it his own way. Which means, he must have been very familiar with that kind of material. I´m pretty sure most of the so-called "hippie" steelers weren´t. As I said before, Cage was a steel player from the start.
JB, I´ll mail you something soon.

Regards, JH[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 09 October 2004 at 01:53 PM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 9 Oct 2004 6:21 pm

Which recording is that? I'd like to find a copy of that one.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 9 Oct 2004 8:00 pm

Hey Joe! Yeah, u do that!

Jim, that's probably one of the downloads from archive.com. Joe and I have 'em all pretty much done, and most of them are excellent.

Cage was a big student of Emmons, Day, Charleton and Mooney, among many others. Just because he has his own style doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate the masters.

JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 9 Oct 2004 10:32 pm

I hope there's something up with archive.com and not my computer. A search for NRPS in Audio brought up 10 tracks. The link for those tracks are all at condir.mp3.com. However when I click on one, I get redirected to clickit.go2net.com and get a page not found error.

I have run Adaware, Spybot, and did a Norton AntiVirus scan and they all say my machine is clean.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 10 Oct 2004 7:10 am

Jim
ooops!

Use this link. it's archive .org, go to the live music archive. These are VERY long downloads, and require a special program to turn the data into .wav files to burn to CD, but the quality is outstanding.

http://www.archive.org/audio/etreelisting-browse.php

JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 10 Oct 2004 8:17 am

Whew, thanks John.

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 10 Oct 2004 10:13 am

The recording in question is from the Academy of Music, New York City, November 24, 1973. It is not as great quality-wise as some of the others on archive.org, it is an audience recording and sometimes the clapping is louder than the music. Nevertheless, Cage did some spectacular playing that night.
For those who are interested in downloading those shows, I recommend to download the tracks seperately rather than the whole show in one piece. In that way you can do a couple at a time and won´t have to keep the computer running for many hours. It happened to me that the connection broke down when the show was almost done, maybe 100 MB missing, and that is a real nuisance.

Regards, JH

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Oct 2004 10:36 am

Winnie:

I wondered who was going to get the cookie on that Nehru jacket one..

EJL

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Oct 2004 11:20 am

Why? Because they were liked by hippies, or because they were hippies?

Listen, I'm all for inducting anyone who has done a lot for the instrument, and is also a great player. That said, IMHO, being a "great player"...

has nothing to do with style.

has nothing to do with selling records.

has nothing to do with playing in a famous band.

(And, most of all) has nothing to do with whoever impressed me when I was younger, or in some "altered" state of mind.

A few of the names mentioned may be deserving, and some are downright laughable, IMHO.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Oct 2004 11:29 am

So....

Just playing the "Devil's Advocate" here, what if they did things that erased their accomplishments in the eyes of their fellows, or the public in general?

What types of things would qualify in that case?

What if they _____?{fill in the blank}

EJL

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Oct 2004 4:58 pm

Well, if they did something really bad, like _____?{fill in the blank}, why shouldn't they still be in a HOF? It should be, IMHO, about their talent, ability, and imagination playing the steel guitar, and not about the "other things" that certain people may have on their own personal agenda.

Here's some similar examples, analogies if you will...

Would we exclude a tennis player like John McEnroe from the "tennis hall of fame" (if there is such a thing) because he's rude, tempermental, and unpersonable?

How about Richard Pryor? Would we exclude him from the "comedians' hall of fame" because he did drugs and had a foul mouth?

And what about Henry Ford? Would we exclude him from the "automotive hall of fame" because he was a racist and a control freak?

Granted, these men may not deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, and they may never be considered for sainthood, but they were, in their fields, all GREAT.

Face it, if Hollywood's actors and actresses were judged, not on just their acting ability, but on their character too, how many of them would qualify for an award?

Pretty darn few, I'd say.

Maybe you're contending we should take all the rock and rollers who ever did drugs out of the R&R HOF? Let's see, who would that leave???

Hmmm...Pat Boone, Frankie Avalon, and Annette Funicello. Yup. That's about it!

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 10 Oct 2004 5:05 pm

Pete Rose? JP

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Oct 2004 5:44 pm

Helluva player, wasn't he?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Oct 2004 6:20 pm

Common sense, that tells us that the sky is blue and the world is flat, would suggest a couple.

Probably betting against the team you're on in sports, ratting out fellow musicians in a drug bust in rock and roll, suing fellow steel players, maybe getting caught in bed with the wrong girl or guy, or in the case of Fatty Arbuckle, making poor decisions on dates.

Johnnie Bond had a little problem with his temper I understand.

I'm also to understand that getting busted with a couple pounds of pot has kept one of our favorite country artists out of the CMHOF.

Wrong, and unfair as I personally thing some of them are, I think there have to be some limits.

Otherwise you'd have a breakdown of society.

We wouldn't want that, now would we?

EJL

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 11 Oct 2004 3:59 am

I got to talk to Buddy Cage in depth at a club called the Shaboo in Willimantic CT back in 76, when I first started playing steel, he gave me great advice....."just get an Emmons", been playing a PP since then

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 11 Oct 2004 6:00 am

I've got to credit all of those "hippy steelers" with influencing me into this love affair with the steel guitar. I had shunned Nashville stuff at the time as all I had heard was the syrupy pop stuff, plus the hippy stuff was being played around all my friends houses and in the bands we were in. After I had my fill of that is when I started to listen to the GOOD Nashville stuff from the 60's, like Emmons with Price, etc.