what the heck is a volume pedal for?

John Pelz · Post by **John Pelz** » 13 Apr 2004 6:59 pm

Gee, now that my incredibly wet-behind-the-ears subject-line has got your attention, let me remind everybody that I'm a beginner. (I feel kind of dumb asking, but that's never stopped me before...)

Would somebody explain to me the various purposes a volume pedal serves? (I recently read somewhere that an often-overlooked factor in Jerry Byrd's superb "touch and tone" is his absolute mastery of the volume pedal, and that's what got me wondering about this.) I've been practicing my recently-bought Dual Pro for a couple weeks now w/o a pedal, and I'm just now beginning to wonder about the volume pedal's purpose. I understand that it is often used to give the appearance of increased sustain as a struck chord diminishes??? Is this the basic gist for using a volume pedal, or is there more to it than simply the latter?
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P.S.- I don't know if this will make any difference in peoples' responses, but I suppose I should have mentioned that my Dual Pro is non-pedal.
(edited to add the P.S.)

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1952 Fender Dual 8 Professional
Peavey Delta Blues[This message was edited by John Pelz on 13 April 2004 at 10:07 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 13 Apr 2004 8:15 pm

Yes and yes. The volume pedal is used for sustain and expression. There is a world of skill in the volume pedal foot of steelers with good tone. To attack notes or chords you back off the volume pedal, then increase it to match the rate the string is dying out. If you do it just right you get an even sustained tone. The trick is always jerking your foot back to the right spot so that your attacks are at a steady playing level, and the sustain is steady, without excess swell. It's not easy at first. Practicing slow ballads or hymns helps. Other than this basic technique, which is a major characteristic of the pedal steel sound, the volume pedal combines with the hands for expression. It all comes together as that expressive liquid sound we all love.

Terry Wood · Post by **Terry Wood** » 13 Apr 2004 8:19 pm

In my opinion it is one of the most important pieces of equipment you will use with the steel guitar.

I believe it has a lot to do with the feeling and the sounds you create as a steel guitarist. And there is so much more that you can do with the volume pedal, via on the floor or the intrument itself.

I use a Hilton Volume pedal and before that I used a Curly Chalker Goodrich model and before that I owned two Emmons pedals and one Sho-Bud.

The Master players use the volume pedal to create various effects, feelings, tones, etc., etc.

You'll understand better as you go along on your steel journey.

GOD bless you!

Woody

Keith Murrow · Post by **Keith Murrow** » 13 Apr 2004 8:53 pm

..[This message was edited by Keith Murrow on 26 October 2004 at 03:21 PM.]

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 13 Apr 2004 9:10 pm

The volume pedal is one piece of gear that is a must have, even though I use it less and less. I almost never use it when recording.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 13 Apr 2004 9:18 pm

It's so when you see people in the audience trying to talk, you can turn it down so as not to offend or interrupt them.

EJL

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 14 Apr 2004 3:56 am

John, Here is a previous thread on the subject that you might find interesting.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/004378.html

In that post the great Reece Anderson refers to it more as an "expression" pedal rather than "volume". When you think about it that way, it kind of changes your perspective a little.

Respectfully,
Dave Burr

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 14 Apr 2004 4:25 am

kinda like an accelerator on an automobile

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 14 Apr 2004 5:37 am

John - I liken the volume pedal to the dynamics of singing. A singer can increase or decrease the volume of a note in order to express and emote feeling. Same for the steel, and you know if your pick happens to catch on a string, it's darned convenient to be able to kill that note quickly, too. The pedal also allows you to easily adjust your volume in the mix of your ensemble. I think it's important that you learn volume pedal basics early on in your learning curve. Later you can work on the subtleties and start making more artistic decisions about how to best use it in your music.

A lot of how you employ the pedal depends on the style of music you're playing. For sad country songs on the E9 pedal steel I use it quite a bit to get that classic crying sound. For western swing in C6/E13 I don't use it nearly as much. I don't hear it a lot in older recordings (pre-1950's) and somebody (Ray Montee?) correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't hear a volume pedal much, if at all, in Byrd's playing. I do hear him tweaking his tone knob frequently to get that distinctive wah sound, but I've always though the masterful expression you hear in his playing was achieved without any volume pedal. As others have suggested, it can be beneficial to your technique to practice without one. You'll often hear it said on this Forum that "it's in the hands", meaning that your sound is mostly dependent upon your bar and picking techniques. I don't use a volume pedal at all for lap steel. - Tim

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 14 Apr 2004 6:19 am

Buy an inexpensive or used pedal to begin with. Run a patch cord from your steel to the pedal and one from the pedal to the amp. Place the pedal under the right end of the steel. With the pedal predded fully forward, turn the amp volume up until it's a little louder than you want it for normal playing. Keep your right foot resting on the pedal (whether you are sitting or standing). Now just play and forget about the pedal. Your foot will learn what to do.

Good luck and say Hi to bro. Jim

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 14 Apr 2004 8:09 am

VOL. PED. TRY TO FIND SEVERAL OLD HANK THOMPSON AND OR LEON MC ALIF RECORDINGS, LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE STEEL WORK. THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE WHAT A VOL. PEDAL IS FOR. ALSO, HERB REMMINGTON RECORDINGS, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST BY A LONG SHOT,,BUDDY EMMONS RECORDINGS,,,TURN THE VOL. UP ABOUT 3 NOTCHES TO GET THE FULL EFFECT....A MUST IS TO LISTEN VERY ,VERY, CAREFULLY AND THAT WILL EXPLAIN, WHAT,WHERE, AND WHY TO USE A VOL,,TONE PEDAL. HOPE THIS IS OF SOME HELP..SINCERLY YOURS,,,,,JENNINGS WARD , EMMONS D10, 10+10,, PROFEX 2, NV1000. PLUS SOME OUTHER EFFECTS....GOOD LUCK.........

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 14 Apr 2004 8:10 am

It is interesting that all pedal steel players (as far as I've seen) use a volume pedal. That is not nearly the same rule with lap steel or console players... some do, some don't, matter of the kind of playing and sound you want to get.

Some folks say that you should control your dynamics with pick technique, and it is definitely true that working on that will make you better... however, I like the idea that I can get the contour and sound of an aggressive pick attack without the volume kick of it.

Being able to step forward a bit on a break is also nice, as opposed to softer pad or comp behind a singer...

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 14 Apr 2004 8:35 am

I went back and did a search for "Jerry Byrd volume pedal". I guess I need to listen to more Jerry Byrd. Most of what I've heard is the Hank Williams stuff. According to this thread, and others, he did use the volume pedal:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001651.html

I stand self-corrected.

[This message was edited by Tim Whitlock on 14 April 2004 at 09:38 AM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 14 Apr 2004 8:58 am

Those words about JB and BE are indeed correct, as they are about many other greats who have mastered the pedal.

There are two distinctly different ways (generally speaking) that use of the vol pedal falls:

1. Where the volume pedal is mainly used to maintain a consistent level while playing.

2. Where the volume pedal is used so as to NOT hear the note picked. Or as some call it, the "violin" affect.

JB and BE fall into the first group. You almost always hear them pick the note. Then they will gradually go down on the volume pedal as the string naturally decays to maintain a consistent level.

Others prefer that the notes NOT be heard when picked, so in this case the pedal is completely OFF as the notes are picked, then the volume is raised instantly after that to give that "strings" sound.

I agree with Jerry when he says,"I prefer to hear the strings picked".

In both cases though, over "swelling" is usually not done. This is thought of as a bad habit if done incessantly. Sadly, this habit is very difficult to break, once in-bred.

carl

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 14 Apr 2004 9:40 am

Get the Tommy White/Lloyd Green Video, "An Evening of E 9th." Watch their feet. Heck, watch everything they do! Lloyd does some cool "gutting" too. I cannot recommend this video highly enough.
JB

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 14 Apr 2004 1:53 pm

Most people are not aware that Jerry Byrd's volume pedal was set up to come on in reverse. I have built many pedals for people who admire Jerry Byrd and want their pedal to come on in reverse like Jerry Byrd's pedal. The vast majority of pedals come on like the gas pedal on your car.

John Pelz · Post by **John Pelz** » 14 Apr 2004 3:32 pm

Thanks for all the help & input, everybody-- tons of good information in this thread. Now I've got a better idea what the heck the volume-- er, expression-- pedal is for!

Bob Wood · Post by **Bob Wood** » 15 Apr 2004 8:44 am

Gee! I guess you can call it an "Expression" pedal or whatever. Bobby Black told me a long time ago that it was used for "swells" like you hear on "Western Swing", or "Hawaiian" music. I only heard that term used twice here on both threads. I guess it's just a matter of semantics.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Wood on 15 April 2004 at 09:44 AM.]

Mel Mandville · Post by **Mel Mandville** » 15 Apr 2004 9:48 am

Hey Eric,

I meant to thank you for doing that the other night .
I was trying to smooze that cute blond at the bar and I can't hear so well any more.

Just kidding.. It was good to meet you and you play great...

Mel

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 15 Apr 2004 10:37 am

JERRY BYRD – HSGA Quarterly, January 1994 – AMP & VOLUME PEDAL SECRETS
“I set the peak volume that I want on the amp – not the instrument. That’s usually about 4.5 or 5, depending on where I’m playing. I then turn the volume on the instrument fully open. I set the treble control on 2 or 3 and the bass to about 7. These setting may vary depending on which instrument I’m using. That other knob (the middle) I set on 6 or 7 also. Then I set the tone control on the instrument half-way between treble and bass, a nice soft tone with a little “edge”, so it won’t sound too bass-ey or too whine-y.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 15 Apr 2004 2:45 pm

The volume pedal is only there to confuse you and make you forget which strings you're playing...
Just kidding.

I have tried Rick Aiello's Jerry Byrd backwards pedal...
and the above was EXACTLY how I felt.

But one could get used to it eventualy.

Good idea to start with a reasonably priced but not cheapy pedal.
When you get things going on pickin' the guitar later, you'll love one of Keith Hilton's pedals.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 15 April 2004 at 03:46 PM.]

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 15 Apr 2004 6:16 pm

Get one, hook it up, and you'll know instantly what it's for. (Granted, there may be a learning curve before you can use it properly, but you'll get the idea right off).

You might asked the same question about knee levers, or pedals. All important to the complete steel experience.

Once you start using one, it won't be long and you'll understand the importance of any to the steel sound.

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

[This message was edited by Les Pierce on 15 April 2004 at 07:19 PM.]

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 17 Apr 2004 7:03 pm

Some of these pedals are not for volume. Some are player guitars as player pianos. There are rolls of paper with perforations in them that are rolled up inside. On mine, if I want to write a new instrumental, I just put on golf shoes and run up and down some brown wrapping paper, and Voila: a New never before heard Jazz instrumental.