Robert Randolph-ONCE AND FOR ALL!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 9 Feb 2004 11:33 pm

OK, let's put this thing to rest. RR takes a lot of flak here, and is also praised highly.
So my question is, once and for all, WHO LIKES ROBERT RANDOLPH, WHO DOESN'T LIKE ROBERT RANDOLPH, AND WHY (OR WHY NOT)??
I'll start by saying I like him. I like that style of music, it's great to see steel guitar played in different situations, and I think Robert's gonna bring people to the instrument.
Now, no "mixed feelings" here. Put your cards on the table. Either you like the guy, or you don't.
NEXT??

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Feb 2004 11:34 pm

God help us all.... 

[This message was edited by Eric West on 09 February 2004 at 11:39 PM, When he realised the End of the World was beginning to unfold...][This message was edited by Eric West on 09 February 2004 at 11:45 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 9 Feb 2004 11:55 pm

My goodness, Eric! You, AFRAID to voice an opinion??? Is it because I'm Southern???

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Feb 2004 2:15 am

I do like RR, I think the only reason he didn't get a Grammy was that the song writing
was not quite up there yet. But that will come with time.
The instrumental arranging is good enough.

The fact he was on the show proves that he has opened new territory for the instrument.
Some don't like that.. to each his own.

And he is a good "entertainer".

I doubt there will ever be a "once and for all" here.

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 10 Feb 2004 3:34 am

RR's music sounds like it would make for a good party with dancing. I understand this is the original use for this music in church. I read that the steel plays so much in this kind of Gospel music so the congregation has a chance to MOVE which is encouraged in these churches that have the Sacred Steel. When this came out of the church and into the mainstream I wanted to like it. I bought a couple of Sacred Steel CD's and found them enjoyable but ultimately unsatisfying, I think, because when you take the music out of it's element it loses something. For me it just doesn't work in a concert type setting. I play alot of Zydeco music and it's kind of the same story there. I love playing that music for dancers but a listening audience would probably find it pretty dull. Guy can pick though! BW

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 10 Feb 2004 4:09 am

I like Robert's playing. Why?...because he is different to the mainstream. He has good chops and has taken the instrument into areas previously not considered. He sounds like no-one else.

KB

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 10 Feb 2004 4:24 am

I don't feel this is resolved either but I don't know why it's a yes or no issue. There is room for all in this world. Everyone has something different to offer. If I happen to chose Buddy Emmons to listen to I don't therefore have to dislike RR.

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 10 Feb 2004 4:26 am

To call RR a pedal steel player in the traditional sense is not correct. He has a style and freedom that I see as a slide player for lack of a better term. I love it
don't get me wrong. That I'm gonna play the
way I want to attitude is what creates great
players like him. It's been said many times before he will draw attention to the instrument which we will all benifit from.
ON the other hand to a tried and true PEDAL
STEEL GUY maybe he's hiding this urge to play
honky tonk songs the way Buddy, Jimmy and Lloyd have. Who knows.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 10 Feb 2004 4:42 am

To label him King of the pedal steel guitar is grossly incorrect, It always has been Buddy Emmons, for his playing and his development of the instrument. I would consider Tommy White , Heir Apparent to this title? He surely is more technically competent than RR.

Do I like him ?
I dunno, There of plenty of Traditional players that I do like to listen to now and keeping me busy doing it. When RR's turn comes around , I'll give him a serious listen. Until then , I'm quite happy listening to Emmons, Hughey, Helms, Jernigan, Hicks, Green, Franklin, Garrish, Crawford,Wallace, Stafford, even ole Tommy Dodd

.[This message was edited by John Floyd on 10 February 2004 at 07:07 PM.]

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 10 Feb 2004 4:50 am

He has lousy tone on everything I've heard him do. He does have a LOT of talent,is a great entertainer and is unique. His "steel"sounds like a $99 chinese made Fender through a Peavey Bandit with the solid state ditortion at FULL bore.He does lead the known pedal steel universe in NPS [notes per second].. In a way he reminds me of Eddie Van Halen.. Eddie is a SPECTACULAR player capable of making beatiful guitar music, but on many songs just crammed a million notes into whatever space was available at light speed with dinosaur whammy dives mixed in liberally. The 15 year olds LOVED it.RR is the same.. He is probably capable of some beautiful playing,but is playing to his "base" audience.. not the general public. Do I "like" him ???? yes... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 10 February 2004 at 04:52 AM.]

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » 10 Feb 2004 5:10 am

Robert has his own style. I heard someone
say this once.
"Different is not wrong, its just different."

That applies to every musician.

------------------
Rick Johnson

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Feb 2004 5:46 am

I saw him on the Grammys the other night.
I was trying to visualize Buddy Emmons kicking his Pak-a-seat like RR kicked the chair he was sitting on away mmmm..maybe he saw that Jerry Lee Lewis movie. When you follow George Clinton you got to do something!!

I am trying to remember the last time I saw a PSG player given a feature spot on the Grammy awards......something to be said for that.

I give him a thumbs up.

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 10 Feb 2004 5:50 am

I got into steel guitar because I fell in love with old country music styles, primarily honky tonk, western swing, etc. Whether RR inspires a new generation of heavy metal pedal steel players is something I couldn't care less about. I must say his energy is infectious, but I lost interest in distorted slide guitar back in the days of Foghat. By the way, I've always wanted to kick my chair back and play (ala Jerry Lee), but was afraid it would hit my amp and tear the speaker. Does anyone share my feeling that this won't be the last RR thread? Edited to say: I think he would laugh his head off if he knew what a stir he was causing amongst a pack of boring old pickers like me.
[This message was edited by Tim Whitlock on 10 February 2004 at 06:04 AM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 10 Feb 2004 5:54 am

i like Robert for what he's doin' by gettin' the Steel up front and gettin' young people to boogie to the Musik.
when i was young it was Jimi doin'just that.
now that i'm older i must admit that i'm not too crazy'bout the loud and distorted sound RR has.
i've had my guitbox heroes for a while now and Robert has'nt blown me away like they did.
this has been mentioned quite a few times on the many RR threads:
this young man is in his 20s. (what were we doin' and playin' when we were in our 20s ?)
give him a break and let him grow.
shucks he's the one that's up there in the spotlight and it's easy for us down here w: the crowd to criticize...
i wish Robert the best of luck on his venture and hope that he won't get bent out of shape by the biz, the road and the jive.
All in all tho',i really do prefer the sacred steel thang.
i've always been moved by goin'to church in the black neighborhoods when i was livin'in the good Ol'.
since those days i've always believed in the Power of Soul
(why even Jimi had a tune about that)
Robert, you keep on goin' if your sure you're right

------------------
Steel what?

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 10 February 2004 at 05:54 AM.]

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 10 Feb 2004 6:09 am

No opinion,honestly, haven;t heard enough yet !!

------------------
JUST 'CAUSE I STEEL, DON'T MAKE ME A THIEF

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 10 Feb 2004 6:29 am

I like RR as a performer/musician.

I'm disappointed to hear of the "Logo Issue". It reminds me of Bobbe's story about Alan Jackson's early hiring of a steel player. I like Alan too.

I suspect both were acting without regards to other's feelings.

Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 10 Feb 2004 6:37 am

Whish I was making $10,000 dollars a show.You go R/R,do your thing and promote our beloved insrument.

Ray

------------------
Steeling is still legal in Arizona

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 10 Feb 2004 7:04 am

I took me a couple of years to get there but now I think Robert Randolph is really cool. Don't get me wrong, I could listen to Lloyd Green, BE, Tom Brumley, Kayton Roberts and other great steel players for hours and I have been for 30+ years.

I really got into the energy that Robert had on the Grammys telecast. I don't know why but I was behind him all the way. Sure, Robert is a not at a high technical level in the traditional sense, but I bet if you put some of the well known technically proficient traditional players in his band, they would struggle to keep up. I know there are some that could definately hold there own (Paul Franklin comes to mind). My point is that RR is doing something different on a grand scale and I think that's a good thing.

He is also exposing steel guitar as a front and center instrument the likes of which has not been seen since Hawaiian music. It will be interesting to see if/how RR develops as a complete player. It's also interesting to note the intrigue and controversey surrounding his style. Not things you often find associated with pedal steel guitar. I'd love to talk to him and find out what he thinks about when he plays. Does he get lost in the music or is he more of a calculating entertainer?

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 10 Feb 2004 7:13 am

I Don't know Robert Randolph. He may be a very nice guy. I can live without his playing. Why? because I like the sound of the steel guitar. He may be seated behind a steel but that's not what he's playing. I'm tired of hearing how he's the new steel guitar god, or how he's going to take the steel to brave, new places. The only place he's taking it is straight into the gutter!

As far as being the new steel guitar god...... Has anyone run that idea past the current gods? i.e. Emmons, Hughey, Black, Anderson, Jerrnigan, Davis, Goldmark, Murphy, Elliot, etc.....? I think that they might have something to say about that BS!

Robbie

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 10 Feb 2004 7:21 am

I didn't see all the Grammy show, so missed RR.

I like the energy he puts out and the audience feels that.

But if he was on there for the general public to see, good for him and good for pedal steel guitar.

Any exposure like that is good news for Steel Guitar.....al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 10 Feb 2004 7:25 am

He seems to be a talented musician, but his steel-playing lacks all the ingredients - tone, precision and musicality (ok, that last one might be subjective) - that first drew me to it all those years ago.

Mind you, I felt the same about Jimi Hendrix - I preferred Chet Atkins and Johnny Smith. I think this is a comparable situation, and I'm in no doubt about where I stand on the issue.

RR (Roger Rettig, that is)[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 10 February 2004 at 07:28 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 10 Feb 2004 7:27 am

Like: That the steel is featured, exposure, different idiom, soulful phrasing (sometimes) all good.

Dislike: Generic grooves, generic rock guitar/Tube Screamer sound, generic rock vocabulary- still all good, just not my taste.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 10 Feb 2004 7:38 am

I doubt RR has ever claimed to be "the new steel guitar God" so it's not fair to use that against him. Remember that we live in the media age where stuff gets hyped out of proportions without the person in question having much control over that.

Personally I think RR has a long way to go as a songwriter, but I love that he's bringing something new and fresh to an instrument that's almost drowning in it's own clichés.

Steinar

------------------
www.gregertsen.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Feb 2004 8:16 am

Okay, so he's not THE steel guitar god, but I love him. That was obviously some Grammy hype to go along with their High Church of Funk theme. But in fact, to tons of young listeners, he is a steel guitar god, in fact the only steel player they have ever heard off of country music radio - which they probably only hear by accident when they are scanning the dial for rock, hip hop and blues.

Importantly, pix 1 and other country pickers on the Forum are not THE steel guitar god either. They can't tell the rest of us what is steel guitar and what isn't. RR does definitely play steel guitar, and it comes from a black tradition of steel guitar playing that goes back to the '30s. That tradition long predates the rock slide guitar many Forum members keep accusing him of copying. The copying goes both ways. All white jazz (in particular Western Swing), rock, and blues players copy from the black tradition. In fact white country music and bluegrass also part from previous European musical traditions in ways borrowed from African-American music.

What really bothers me here is that I cannot remember any ad hominem criticism on the Forum of any other steel guitar player. In fact it is almost embarrassing how much slavish praise is heaped on top players. Very rarely someone will vaguely imply that Doug Jernigan may not have had the right tone for the jazz he played, or some minor criticism like that. And it is invariably accompanied by high praise for the player otherwise.

RR has been repeatedly singled out for criticisms for copying blues/rock licks, copying 6-string licks, playing a pedal steel like a lap steel, playing the Sacred Steel tuning instead of the "real" pedal steel tunings, bad intonation, bad tone (okay, I thought it could have been better on the Grammies, too - might not have been all his fault), etc. Frankly, we should be able to offer opinions on each others playing, including the top players. But it strikes me that this type of pointed criticism has only been used against one player, RR.

I would like to think it is not racism (I grew up in Mississippi, so nothing surprises me on that point), but is instead a reaction to his simply playing a different kind of music on steel guitar, and being very successful at it. Somehow that doesn't make me feel much better. He's black. He plays black music. He does it well. Nobody ever criticized BB King or Wes Montgomery or Jimi Hendrix for doing that on 6-string.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 10 Feb 2004 8:24 am

This is unreal. The mere fact you guys have debated RR's playing style, what steel he is playing, his songwriting, etc, to death is proof he is the most compelling steel guitarist of our time. This forum now has two hot threads about him going. Every time someone comes on here to ask, "who is this Robert Randolf feller?" the forum lights up!
A steel guitar god might be a stretch, but time will tell on that. If ten years from now we have young kids everywhere playing rock steel, then I would have to say he transcended the instrument, somewhat like Hendrix, or Van Halen with the guitar. In other words, he changed the way it was approached totally.
Personally, I would like RR if he was playing a Les Paul. I love his energy and his uplifting message.
Once and for all? Yeah right. This subject draws more fire than a Janet Jackson boob....or a Bill Hankey post