Cheryl Crows new tune

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 3:25 am

This tune, First Cut is the Deepest, was the largest position gainer on Billboard list last week.

My fellow Steel playing friends, this "IS" the Golden opportunity for our Instrument.Cheryl Crows tune is one of the top tunes now and although she uses Steel on one version, it appears the primary version is non-Steel.Cheryl has the power and influence to step up to the plate and tell her label that this is the way it needs to be..More people will hear the Steel under her umbrella than RR could ever dream of..and guess what..it's in the traditional style..you know..the style thats dead..

Cheryl, show us where your heart is..not how big your bank account is..Show us that Crossover is not just one sided..

Ever hear of Urban Cowboy ?

Now I am a little confused as well..why would her label issue 2 versions of a top tune, with 1 version having the Pedal Steel..
Who would that version be for ? And why would it be in a tradtional style that is dead ? Maybe they know more than we do....

t
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 January 2004 at 03:31 AM.]

Uwe Haegg · Post by **Uwe Haegg** » 14 Jan 2004 4:04 am

Who did the steel playing on the good version?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jan 2004 4:53 am

why would her label issue 2 versions of a top tune, with (ony) 1 version having the Pedal Steel..

This is not the first time this has happened. The powers that be at the record companys are afraid that if the pop audience hears a steel, they might not buy the record.

Remember, to the bean counters, the musical content is unimportant. All they care about is unit sales. Their graphs and charts tell them that the sound of the steel will cause people to think the record is "too country" so it's out of the mix.

Sheryl Crow might not be able to do anything about it either. Depending on how her contract is written, it might be out of her hands.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 5:02 am

Mike..it is a question of sarcasm..

Actually I think that Cheryl Crow probably has plenty of clout..

I pretty much think Labels would fight over her right now..

The point to me is still obvious..

Why would they publish a version with a traditional Steel Guitar ? ..when many think it is dead..I guess because it's not dead ..

If they couldn't sell it..as you are so correct in stating..they wouldn't have done it...

Cheryl Crow's presence is monumental in this music Industry, and rightfully so..and having a traditional Steel on her top selling record is not by accident..

t

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 14 Jan 2004 5:32 am

Tony, this is a prime example of another song tht you may have forgotten about. Let me refresh your memory. The tune: "Amazed" by Lonestar. There was two versions to this as well. That's why it crossed over. BUT! The version that crossed over was not the version that you heard on your local "country" station. No I'm afraid that Mike is right. Cheryl Crow may be hotter than a $2.00 pistol, but she may not have much if any sayso on how this tune is going to sound. Steel or no steel. What the labels look at these days is how much money they are going to make off this CD or single. Use to, the label would release a whole album. Now days they only release a single. Less cost for them. If the single should hit then they rush the artist back into the studio to finish the project. They will then have something to move. But it comes in singles these days. I'm not talking about someone who is already made their mark of course. Please don't misunderstand that. I wish her CD well. Keep one thing in mind. The record label knows there is much more money to be made in the pop than in the country. Sad but true.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 5:55 am

Robert..I hear ya but there is a major difference..Lonestar attempted a cross from Country to Pop with mild success..Cheryl is already a proven winner in her arena and has crossed over in the reverse direction..totally different deal. She is already a Super Star..

Her records get played..daily..everywhere..every station it seems..all the time..she is at the top of the Billboard total sales chart, all music styles..Lonestar is not even close..

I don't think there is any comparison between Lonestar and Cheryl Crow when it comes to visibility.Make that..there is no comparison..

Lonestar brought a few along for the ride..Cheryl Crow brings an entire generation. Cheryl Crows records are on everyone's rotation..Lonestars..? Well..

You're gonna have ta open your mind on this one..She has a big stick. They may listen to her at the table..she is not a start-up act..

Do ya think Eric Clapton has clout ? Well she ain't all that far behind...

She just has to choose when to use it..

But this all still comes back to this..

Some Exec decided to use a Pedal Steel on a version..Why did he do that ? Why would they do that ? , invest in distribution with a traditional Steel Guitar on a pop record ?

The simple short answer is that it ain't dead..and it must sell somewhere I imagine, afterall they are only interested in total sales , right ?

Her 1 record with the traditional Steel has already exceeded any new style of Blues/Rock playing that has come to the forefront..

Imagine how much more can be accomplished with this 1 song..

t
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 January 2004 at 06:04 AM.]

David Mullis · Post by **David Mullis** » 14 Jan 2004 6:28 am

Sheryl Crowe has a big stick?!?!?!?! Well that just ruins it for me

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 14 Jan 2004 6:44 am

Accually Tony the producers are the ones who did the remake and tried the crossover deal with Lonestar. I guess it worked because they all bought new homes and cars with the money generated from the sales. I agree that Chyrel is at the top of her career, but then you have to see what kind of music that she is singing. Not country for sure. At least not all country. Lonestar has lost their record deal so it's a given that they won't be on the radio like they would have been had the contract still been in exsitance. I didn't mean to sound like I was comparring Chyerl to Lonestar. There isn't any I admit. I can only speculate as to why the exec chose a steel. Maybe he wanted to try something different. That's the way things work. Someone comes up with an idea and they try it and it works. Thus creating something that people want. Personally I'm glad that happened considering I play steel. It would do my heart good to be able to hear steel on pop songs. I wish her well.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8

Gere Mullican · Post by **Gere Mullican** » 14 Jan 2004 7:08 am

This might not be the proper place for this response, but I have to say it anyway. It is along the same thoughts as the Cheryl Crowe thing but it is about Vince Gill. Several years ago I heard the song "Never Knew Lonely" on the radio. I immediately went and bought the CD based entirely ont eh Paul Franklin steel playing. When I brought it home and played it, there was almost NO steel on it. I went and bought another CD with the same song. Same thing. Hardly any steel and the guitar took the full break. On the one I heard on the radio, the guitar took the first half and the steel took the second half. I would up buying 4 totally different CDs with the song on it and not a single one had the cut I heard on the radio. I was so mad that I called Tony Brown's office and the guy that I talked to told me they had remixed it and released the NO STEEL version and they only released the good version to radio stations as a single CD. I have not to this day been able to find the right version. Paul Franklin will probably read this post and maybe he can give his feelings on it. It was such a beautiful piece of playing. Some of the versions even had different names: some were called "Never Knew Lonely" and some were called "I Never Knew Lonely". Why would they do that? Any responses will be appreciated.
Gere

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 7:11 am

Robert, we are saying the same thing..

I guess with all the comments about the Steel bing dead and traditional Steel guitar not being a considered force..I guess we could say..

"How awesome is this to have a top POP gal like Cheryl singing her crossover tune with a Steel..Look at the visibility..and what could follow"

Kinda proves the theory that the Steel is dead as bogus..

and..she does sing a good Country tune..no doubt..and she has the right look and image..

Lonestar is a great band ..I'm glad they all bought new houses..

me I would rather buy the Bank !

t

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 14 Jan 2004 7:17 am

Great post Gere. I had forgotten about that song. Yes you're right about to different cuts on the song. I as well bought the CD and wound up with the same thing as you. It falls right back into the part where I said that the producers are the ones doing this. Who knows why. Like I said earlier, maybe it's just an idea and they try to do something different. I don't know. Far be it for me to say I know the answer to that question. We just have to keep going on.

Tony I can only hope that maybe Chyrel is the one that may bring the steel back to life. She is certainly in the right spot to be able to at least shed a little more light on the instrument if nothing else. I wanted to add this to my last post. You had posted yours before I was finished with my last. I have faith in the steel. We'll prevail somehow.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone".

[This message was edited by Robert Jones on 14 January 2004 at 07:23 AM.]

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 14 Jan 2004 7:19 am

Well, I'm glad Cheryl is using cteel on at least something.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 14 Jan 2004 7:27 am

Everybody seemed to forget that Shania Twain went farther than anyone else with the idea of crossover. Her last album "Up" came with 2 CDs, one that was mixed totally pop and one country with PF on pedal steel.

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 14 Jan 2004 7:58 am

Thanks for the update Michael. You're right of course. I'm sure that if we sat down and thought about it long enough there would be others as well that have done the same thing.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
"Life is too short for bad tone".

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 14 Jan 2004 8:22 am

I read an article on Cheryl Crow several months ago and in that article she said that she wanted to do a "country" project and that she was becoming more interested in traditional country. Can't remember what magazine it was.

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 14 Jan 2004 9:02 am

For Cheryl to have a steel guitar on her records is nothing new. Remember, her first hit single "All I Wanna Do Is Have Some Fun" featured steel prominently. It was even highly visible in the video. If I remember correctly, her lead guitarist had just taken up steel.

Also, check out her duet with EmmyLou Harris, "Juanita", a beautiful country waltz with plenty of steel.

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 14 Jan 2004 9:12 am

Michael, and Robert:

There were two versions that were released in the states, but there was at least one more version... for the East Asian market. I heard a cut off of it, and it had a complete different backing band track. Vocals were the same, maybe slightly different mix on them, with all this ghastly Chinese-pop sounding brittle synth stuff. What can I say, though, clearly her people know what side of the pancake the moo shu sauce is on.

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 14 Jan 2004 9:20 am

Remember Shania's tune "Still The One," it had a great steel solo in the middle that was totally rubbed out for pop radio.

I think a few Faith Hill tunes did the same thing.

My take on Cheryl Crow; the only reason they (the producers) put PSG on the song at all, was to lend credibility with the country audience. She doesn't want to alienate her fans who know her as a pop artist, and all they are doing is trying to add country fans, i.e. more record sales.

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Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 14 Jan 2004 9:50 am

Gere,
Radio is the culprit. Producers, artists, and labels would never make different versions if radio didn't request a "more this or that version" to fit their listening demographic. They have ALL the power by refusing to play things as they were originally recorded.

Tony,
I was surprised when I got the call to put steel on Cheryl's single. They replaced the bass and drums from the pop version.
Paul

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 14 Jan 2004 10:16 am

Paul has great insight (as usual). Artists rarely have much say about the final production of a recording. Regardless of their popularity, artists are only one part of the "formula" for creating profit which includes radio play. Radio stations dictate the number of "spins" a song gets. More "spins" directly translates to more sales and higher "charting" as in Billboard.

The paradox of this condition is it fairly accurately predicts the success of sales for a song but not the popularity or longevity of the artist performing the song. Tommy Shane Steiner is a case in point with his recent hit song about an "angel".

Keep on pickin'
Glenn
www.kevinfowler.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 12:25 pm

Paul..Thanks for the heads-up on this tune..which by the way, I really like !

May I ask where did you record your Steel tracks ? Where were the main tracks recorded ?

Rainer..I'm afraid I don't see the comparison between Cheryls tune" FUN" with a sliding lick here and there which was not on any Country Cross Over station or channel what-so-ever with her new tune that has Paul playing very traditional E9th Pedal Steel phrases..and very nicely I might add..

This IS new for Cheryl Crowe..and it may be good for our Instrument, I sure hope so..

Rich Weiss · Post by **Rich Weiss** » 14 Jan 2004 1:48 pm

Not to be nit-picky or anything, but... it's Sheryl, not Cheryl.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 14 Jan 2004 1:50 pm

Crow has been edging more and more into the country format for a while. She's been at the awards shows, doing duets, and I would not be surprised to see a full blown country record from her in the future.

By the way, she's the reason Kid Rock's been hangin' round, if you get my drift. They are an off and on item, currently on from what I've seen.

JB

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Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 14 Jan 2004 2:07 pm

Tony,

I just dug out Sheryl (with an "S") Crow's 1993 CD "Tuesday Night Music Club" that contains "All I Wanna Do". The steeler is her producer Bill Bottrell, whom she calls a "budding" pedal steel player in the liner notes. "...a sliding lick here and there..." is a slight understatement: the steel is in there from beginning to end without even taking a breath in between. There are some more cuts on the CD with steel on them, though not as prominently. But you are right, of course - none of it is country music.

The point I was trying to make is that she had used steel guitar before and that it was even on her first hit single. And she had done country songs before ("Juanita" with EmmyLou).

If you've done something before - and it didn't hurt - you're likely to do it again.

I fail to see, however, how any of this will "help" steel guitar. Help what? Help sell instruments? Help sell records that feature steel guitar? Help convince other artists that a steel guitar will not hurt sales? Help steelers get more jobs? - Hardly any of it.

Let's just enjoy another great song with steel playing on it. It is neither the morning glow of a new era nor the forshadowing of impending doom - it's just music.

As an aside: the original 1967 recording of "First Cut" by Cat Stevens had a sitar or electric sitar guitar on it (another endangered species). I doubt that it helped sitar players much ...

Rainer

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Remington D-10 8+7, Sierra Crown D-10 gearless 8+8, Sierra Session S-14 gearless 8+5, '77 Emmons D-10 8+4, Sho~Bud Pro-I 3+5, Fender Artist D-10 8+4, Peavey Session 400 LTD, Peavey Vegas 400

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Jan 2004 2:48 pm

Rainer, yes..ok , correct.Cheryl with an S..
and yes a budding Pedal Steeler playing slide phrases in "FUN"..

If I had her number I would call Cheryl with an S...and tell her I like what she is doing... and to keep it up..

Evidently some record company Exec felt it would not hurt sales to do a second version with a Steel..he must know something that we don't know..

Records effect the sale of many things and influence many people in many ways..The visibility of the Instument is there. Maybe someone will seek out that sound and become the next Paul or Buddy..who knows..It's certainly better than not hearing it...

afterall..we heard it and it effected us..

cheers..

t

Guitar, wire and an amp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 January 2004 at 02:57 PM.]