We opened for....

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 10 Dec 2003 6:04 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>14. Never name your band after a song.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Merle Haggard and the Strangers

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Dec 2003 6:09 pm

Yeah Eric, gotta admit, I no longer have those "stars in my eyes".

At one time I did, but you soon realize that being a "star" (unless you're a really big one) ain't always what we imagine it might be. And backing a big star isn't nearly as fun as it used to be, even though those guys had to schlep around their own stuff in Tubb's heyday. I freely admit that 30 or 40 years ago, country stars were alot more accessible, and were a lot more like common folk. Today, as Ron and Tom say, some of the players might occasionally come 'round for a look, but the stars they back are mostly paranoid egomaniacs, even though we all did start in the same places, doing the same things. Back in the '60s, I was a true "road musician" (living mostly out of a road-weary 1949 Brill) for about 9 months. That was enough for me!

(So Doug thinks we might be "kindred spirits"? We're not really as gruff as we sound, are we?

Maybe someday, we'll get to share a couple of cold ones, and decide!)

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Dec 2003 7:45 pm

Actually Donny, those are the exact words he used. Diego Del Fuego (Doug of Fire) and I talk all the time and have shared and traded gigs for a while. He's a good guy for sure. I still can't get him to open up totally about his years as a hit man for "The Company" as he calls it..

Oh well..

Merr... hell... I still can't say it..

EJL

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 10 Dec 2003 8:45 pm

It sounds like some people here had some bad experiences. Donny, you are dead wrong on this one from my experiece. I have sat for a
half hour at a time with some of the biggest stars in country music that we have opened for. Male and female. Most of them were gracious, drank with us, signed autographs and genuinely were nice people. Some I can remember off the bat for being great were Gary Allen, Patty Loveless, and David Lee Murphy, amongst others. My band is regularly asked to open for majors in our area because of our past resume and experience. We are opening for two more in the next two months at a concert and dance hall here concert sound and lights. If you think no one cares you are wrong. Our openings have got us high paying gigs. We have NEVER played for free. We usually get a minimum of $500.00. We play large stages in outdoor venues as well as inside to thousands of people. Full concert sound and lights. We usually know the sound crews. We just opened for Trick Pony at a state university Center for The Arts in front of three thousand people and got very well paid for a fourty five minute show. Trick Pony with Ira and Heidi are some of the nicest fun loving genuine people you would ever want to meet.
Experience and resume count amongst PROFESSIONALS. If you are NOT professional in you appearance, manner, and playing ability, of course it doesn't matter.
Eric, I know where you are coming from.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 December 2003 at 08:47 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Dec 2003 8:52 pm

Let's save the joke lists for the "Humor" section of the Forum, okay guys?

In the early '80s I played in a techno-billy duo. We got a lot of "opening act" gigs simply because we were an original band with a very small stage footprint.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 10 December 2003 at 08:55 PM.]

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Dec 2003 9:16 pm

Mr Hatton..

You know where I'm coming from..

That makes one of us.

It's been a long strange and sometimes terrible trip out of a Hunter Thompson novel..

Hopefully it ain't over yet.

It's just getting

FUN.

EJL

XMAS ( there I've said it..)

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 10 Dec 2003 9:58 pm

I've heard hundreds of local opening acts all over the country. Once in a while we got to hear some fine musicians, some of whom eventually showed up in Nashville and landed artists gigs, but for the most part these bands sounded like an Apache raid on a Chinese laundromat. A local band was backing up Charlie Walker somewhere and they played a real strong push EVERY TIME the song went from a 1 to a 4 or a 4 to a 5 or a 5 to a 1. On EVERY SONG. Poor ol' Charlie just hung in there. We were ROTFLOAO backstage. Another band had a steel player who had the nerve to come out wearing a derby. Yeah, he sounded like Buddy - if Buddy were wearing boxing gloves instead of picks. But... I was a local picker once, and ya gotta jump in there and get experience however you can.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 11 Dec 2003 3:24 am

So----jury? What's the verdict?? Can we mention we opened for someone, or are we supposed to be "hush--hush", keep it in the closet, like it's a bad thing? Do we risk sounding like a wannabe fan, or is it better to gripe about those higher up on the musical "food chain" who have made it? Or if you are already up the food chain of importance, gripe about those trying to get there, because the little guy is curious and wants to "bother the pro" and ask a few questions?

I don't mind someone "dropping a name" because they are impressed and had a good experience and are proud of it. I do mind someone getting stuck up about it, though. I also don't care for those who have made it to be stuck up, either. We all put our pants on one leg at a time---even the stars. You only get 24 hours a day for the rest of your life--- You are either trying to "do it" or "doing it". Play the game the way you see it--enjoy. yours truly, Crash Dummie (Did I just commit suicide?? Hum.)

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 11 Dec 2003 5:08 am

As a teenager, I had big rock and roll dreams, which got sidetracked by a call to ministry, college and seminary, marriage and 3 little girls. I quit playing completely for about 15 years (except for an occasional worship service "gig"). I honestly figured my playing days were over, and I was grieved about it, to tell the truth. To be able, in my late 40's, to get my chops back to the level they are and to be able to play (and fraternize with) the likes of THE KENTUCKY HEADHUNTERS and THE CHARLIE DANIELS BAND is something I've enjoyed to the maximum. I'm not going to let anybody rain on my parade.

I also agree with Tom Mortenson. For years, I watched other people do the self-promotion thing and thought "how un-cool" that was. Then I noticed how they were getting ahead and I wasn't. Duh.

I used to think that if you were a great player, the world would beat a path to your door. Yeah, right. It's Marketing 101. If you don't toot your horn, nobody's going to toot it for you. It doesn't matter if you're the hottest steel player in the country IF you only play in your den or bedroom.

The address to my self-promotion page is below

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Rick McDuffie
Marlen SD-10, Sho-Bud Professional S-10, Paul Reed Smith McCarty, Hofner New President, Fernandes LE2G
Rick's Music Photo Gallery
www.tarheelmusic.com

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 11 December 2003 at 06:44 AM.]

Ben Lawson · Post by **Ben Lawson** » 11 Dec 2003 5:48 am

I have been on both sides of this topic. I "opened for some "names" and I was with some "names" who had local bands opening for them.
They way I see it is what kind of person the BIG ACT is. If they are as normal as one can be in that position I might say that I was in some way associated with a particular show. If they are unpleasant, and most big names have reputations that precede them, I'll play the job, collect my money and go home.

Robert Jones · Post by **Robert Jones** » 11 Dec 2003 6:07 am

Wow. I can see that some of you guys have had some bad experiences as an opening act. I would at this time like to put in my money's worth. If I name drop well sorry, here goes. My best act to open for was Ricky Skaggs in St. Louis back when he was still playing country before his bluegrass kick. Not knocking the bluegrass. 1994 Dean Holman was playing steel for him at that time and doing a swell job I might add. Dean had been with Barbra Fairchild but was able to spread his wings on that gig. We got paid very well for this gig and Ricky Skaggs himself came out to pay a compliment to us. Thanks again sir for those kind words! Not to stop there of course, I had the great pleasure of not only opening for these people, but we was their band for the whole night. John Daly (Professional golfer for those who don't know him) whom is an Arkansas resident lives not 50 miles from me does an annual charity at Bay Ridge country club which is his back yard. He puts on a concert to help raise money for the "Boys and Girls Club". For the last two years he's brought down Johnny Lee, Moe Bandy, Jim Ed Brown, Joe Stampley, and Mickey Gilley. It's a great show and we not only are the band I own all the sound that is used. Now here in Arkansas, when a club has a major act come in the owner of the club will use one of their best bands to do the opening. If it's a venue there are promoters that pick and choose the bands to do the opening. Once in a while we have a battle of the bands that decides on who does the opening. I might add that I don't take any part in the latter. I doubt that any of this is ever going to get me anywhere, but it's fun. I enjoy meeting all the different musicians out there regardless if they play steel or not. Now Eric I agree with you on about 99% of what you are talking about. Since I have class A CDL's and own my own truck I make more in a day than what just about ANY musician out there working for a major act. Also it goes without saying the most musicians aren't making upwards of 65,000 to 70,000 a year playing music. I'll give you a prim example. Chris Troop is one of the finest keyboard players I have ever shared the stage with. Chris USE to play keyboard for Tobey Keith. BUT!! He can make $800.00 a week driving his bus! He only gets $500.00 playing keyboard. NOW! what's wrong with that picture? If I got into the music business full time playing for a major act it would have to be because I simply love to play. It wouldn't be because I am trying to make money at it. If I'm wrong someone show me a checkstub that they made playing for a major act. By the same token I agree with Rick also. If you don't toot your own horn once in a while by droping names you will no doubt get cobwebs in it. Merry Christmas to all.

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Mullen Royal Percision D-10 Red Laquar Pearl inlay 8&8
www.dbcooperonline.com

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 11 Dec 2003 7:50 am

Most musicians working for stars will accept locals based not so much on their position in the musicians' food chain, but on how they present themselves - just as in any other aspect of life. As for getting your car blocked in by a bus - stars get their buses blocked in, too. And sometimes they don't get paid, either. And security - I left the backstage area at a gig to get a hot dog or something and the guard wouldn't let me back until I thought to show him my drivers license, proving I was from Nashville. Some acts feel slighted if they don't get to close the big show, but I've worked with at least one who would rather open the show so he could get the heck out and back to the hotel bar. Bottom line is: saying you opened for some famous hat act doesn't mean much, but it's better than not ever opening for anyone. It's just _how_ you say it.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 11 Dec 2003 8:59 am

Cal, you and Kevin hit it pretty close, I think. I've opened for some names, got paid, maybe got to hang out with some hot rods, it's all part of the job, as far as I'm concerned. And at a bluegrass festival, the Flat Mountain Boys, or the Shallow Valley Drifters, may well be sandwiched between Ralph Stanley and Rhonda Vincent. I don't know if you'd call this "opening," since the audience expects as much of you as they do the stars.
I don't really understand this thread. Is somebody bitter because they did, or DIDN'T, get to open for somebody?
BTW, my band turned down the chance to open for Asleep at the Wheel recently. Not enough money

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 11 Dec 2003 9:43 am

Robt J. What I notice early on is that guys that played "soley" for a living besides having NO SS being put in ( I have a seven year row of goose eggs in my report from 79-86) they usually don't have time to themselves to practice, money to buy strings, let alone buy insurance for their four wheel houses.

In my case , when my day job went to hell recently, I was able through haveing a real low house pmt, and ALL my stuff paid for, to take some REAL quality time getting my chops back, and taking a lower paying "musical fare" rather than having to seel stuff and take a job in a carwash. I can think of a couple months where alL I did was gig and practice. That's usually not possible for "peole in the business". When I played for that 7 year stretch I was in such a scramble to eat that I didn't have time or the place. Add to that "MY LIFE" depended on EVERY job, and every time a drummer dropped a beat or the bass player didn't show up, or the Boy/girl thing screwed up the band I freaked out because it was my "Living".

What's even wierder is that I played more music gigs AFTER I started working full time than I did before, and locally anyhow more than the people that "did it for a living".

At this writing I could still go another year playing weekends if I HAD to. This year I haven't been "totally" out of day work, just about half what I am used to. It's letting up.

Of course it's not "all about the money", but "Life" here on earth certainly is. Without it you can do very little good for your friends and family.

I learned most of what I know about "top name band life" from people in top name bands.

My Favorite Steel Player and idol ditched his "top name" band career about 30 years ago to live on a farm in a rural area and work by the hour. First laying bricks and then becoming a wet nurse to hundreds of people like me. Few doubt that he's one of, if not the BEST. He made the HOF. Probably living a better life money wise than 90% of his confederates. I know he's produced a lot of quality pedal steel players.

Pete, Danny, Bruce, More?

Gotta go set up my equipment.

EJL

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 11 Dec 2003 9:50 am

Eric, you can call me RAY, or you can call me JAY, but you doesn't have to call me Mr. Johnson!!!

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 11 Dec 2003 10:15 am

I agree with the folks who point out that if you don't "toot your own horn" nobody's gonna do it for you! Clearly opening for a name act does not make you a name act yourself. But it might, at least some of the time, be a fun and memorable experience that you might want to talk about (and other times it might be memorable for the fact that it was no fun at all). One should hope that at least some of the time its fun and memorable, because there ain't a lot of people getting rich playing music. There's nothing wrong with a little self-promotion, as long as it doesn't get too obnoxious (and as long as you don't make the mistake of believing your own bull****) and there's nothing wrong with a good "war story" now and then.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Dec 2003 10:54 am

Well Kevin, maybe you're right! Maybe most of today's stars are pretty okay people, at that. Perhaps if I just act real nice, maybe one of those "big stars" will invite me on their tour bus for a drink, or maybe over the house for a barbeque. I won't hold my breath, though.

You see, back in the '60s, the family and I were in Nashville (looking for Stu Basore), and the waitress at Tootsies said "Here's Kitty's (Wells') address...just stop by and see her, she'll help 'ya." So we went over, and were invited in for some coffee and doughnuts.

Yeah, Kitty Wells and Johnny Wright were good people...real "stars" in my book!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Dec 2003 11:28 am

Listing acts that you "opened for" in your promo package could help you get similar "opening act" gigs. If you like that kind of gig, letting clients know that you have the experience is logical.

I don't think it's something to crow about in the entertainment section of the newspaper. It seems silly and the audience doesn't really care. The people who care who you opened for are the people who book opening acts.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 11 Dec 2003 11:43 am

Great thread, and a few sometimes conflicting issues. Maybe in a small town a promoter will fill an "opening" slot with just any available band, but most clubs and promoters have the satisfaction of the audience (future shows) and to some degree the reputation of the venue with the Headliner's management, etc. to contend with, and consequently try to get the "hotter" locals on the bill. The reason some folks ask us to play for "exposure", low $ and lousy treatment is because we'll do it! Let's face it- if no one agreed to play for slave wages, we'd all get better offers. Although I've lived some of those horror stories, in my experience the opening act scenario is often a winning deal. Many of the acts I've opened with have sold literally hundreds of CDs, gotten numerous further bookings, and made great contacts with the management, players, labels etc. connected with the headliners. On most of the shows I've played, if the Headlining artist wasn't present for our set, many of their bandmembers were, usually more than interested in talking shop- equipment, who's hiring, and so on. Playing with the "openers" has gotten me tours, shows, and recording dates with quite a few major artists I never would have met otherwise. Several of the "local" acts I've played with (like John Berry, Mark Wills, Shawn Mullins, and Sugarland) have gone on to Major Label deals and headlining, and I honestly believe their "opening" days have a great deal to do with their success and fan base. As far as "name dropping" goes, I think it's viewed even in professional cirlces as a creative means of self-promotion, and a resume of sorts. It's funny, but backstage at a show talking to the "Headliner"'s band members, an awful lot of the chat always revolves around who their next/last tour was/will be with, who's recording with who, and insider gossip about the "names". It's just the way people are!

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 11 Dec 2003 2:08 pm

Mark, that is exactly my point. I'd like to meet you some day and see you play.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 11 Dec 2003 3:11 pm

Right back atcha, Kevin!

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 11 Dec 2003 3:54 pm

I agree with both of ya'll. Seems to be the nature of folks to talk shop. I like to.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 11 Dec 2003 4:30 pm

If there are no other benefits to "opening" for someone....at least it's another job!
www.genejones.com

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 11 Dec 2003 8:37 pm

Not only don't the "name" bands have nothing to do with hiring the local "warm-up" group, most of the time, they never even see or hear them! These "stars" spend most of their time in the tour bus, or in a fancy suite somewhere deciding whether to do show #1, or #2 or #3, and getting their hair styled and their makeup right.

Donny you are right about that on most all artists, especially the less established artists. I always found the more established artists to be the ones that recognize and mingle with the opening act. Here are my favorites (the stark exceptions to the ones you mentioned) and why. I'll not mention the worst.

Steve Wariner - Nicest guy in the world. He remembered me from a gig with him 5 years earlier. He checked out my guitar setup, and complimented me on my playing. He also offered to let me play through his rig on the last gig!! He was the last one on the bus while we were still talking about guitars and music.
Haggard - Although Merle didn't spend very much time with us, the Strangers did. The most nervous moment in my life was when Roy Nichols came out front and listened to me sound check!!! Their sound crew spent more than adequate time with us on the monitor mix.
Asleep at the Wheel - Several of their band watched us play our whole set. And what more can you say about Cindy Cashdollar, what a sweetie.
Tammy Wynette - What a lady, and her group was extremely nice and helpful.
Garth Brooks - Nice guy, and his band is cool too.
Gene Watson - Great guy and always has down to earth band members. All or you steelers should get to know Corky Owens.

I'll not go into the worst, but the one on top of my worst list last name begins with a "Y". Most all the newer flash in the pan artists are like Donny describes. I'll never make it big or be famous, but if I did, I would demand respect for the opening band because it is a direct reflection on your perception by the masses.

Regards,
Terry Downs
http://terrydownsmusic.com

Jim Walker · Post by **Jim Walker** » 11 Dec 2003 8:58 pm

Name Dropping on the forum? I'm guilty as charged but it was totaly out of respect to those I mentioned. As far as the opening act? Been there done that. Now I'd be happy to be the opening act for the opening act! Ha! I'm not a wanabe I'm a usetawas...

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97' American-Fender-Tele-Bender-Blaster-Caster
Line 6 Amps