New Gibson Lap Steels, Coming soon,

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 8 Oct 2003 7:07 pm

I guess I don't understand why all the fuss about pedal steels on the no peddlers part of this site. My personal opinion of pedal steels would not set too good with some of you folks, so I'll just say that when I hear "modern" country music, all the steel players sound alike and seem to use the same runs (pedals??) Someone told me,that the pedals are playing the musician, and I suppose that's possible too. I would have to say though, that some of the pedal guitars I have heard in person have terrific tone.
How many pedal guitar mfg's are building them today??
I remember when you could always tell who was on the steel in earlier country music, because every player had a style that was his only, even if he tried to copy Jerry, Billy, or Kayton.
Just some thoughts, not trying to stir anything up.
Gerald is kind of correct,MacIntire only had six strings, and today everyone seems to want to listen to his playing,and Andy Iona also.
Bill

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 8 Oct 2003 10:33 pm

This is just MHO, however; I've been playing, as I've said many times before; for 55years now, and started on a 6 string Supro. I would never recommend anyone to consider any less than 7 strings on any steel guitar. Anything less than (7) to me would be a considerable waste! However, I do realize that the style you want to play would also be a deciding factor! A 6 str. with a C6 tuning would work for me, if it had to, but; I would feel severely handicapped for what I want to do!

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“Big John” {(<< Uh~
http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 8 Oct 2003 11:24 pm

I really wonder if Bill is correct when he says

MacIntire only had six strings, and today everyone seems to want to listen to his playing,and Andy Iona also.

I think 7 and 8 string lap steels were around since 1934-35 .... so just to question the 6 string statement is what I'm doing.
Further to that... who can say for sure what the players of yesteryear played "IN the Studios" other than those who were there at the time...... for instance , can anyone say for sure that Sol Hoopii didn't use a 7 string guitar on his classic 1937 recordings ?
I'm pretty sure that the top players of the time would have had the very latest of developments at their disposal !!
AND being slightly secretive about tunings etc. seemed to be a popular pastime then.

I agree with John Bechtel that any less than 7 strings would not be desirable now, so why in a re-introduced Gibson?.
Baz
www.waikiki-islanders.com

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Steel players do it without fretting

http://www.waikiki-islanders.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 9 Oct 2003 6:20 am

Hi again I agree about the seven string guitars being much better,as I have a 1931 seven string Rick frypan and a seven string bakelite, but the people in our Hawaiian steel guitar groups have a few of MacIntires original frypans, but none are seven string models. Of course that's not to say they didn't use them back in those days. I agree with Ray Montee about getting the most out of a six string if you have one. Maybe it depends on what type of music you are into(??) Many in our steel guitar groups have old six string frypans and bakelites, but also many have stringmasters and a few use pedal guitars and there are some double 8 Nationals etc. When you listen to them all play on stage, the frypans and bakelites stand out because of tone and the style of the players.

Cheers Bill

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 9 Oct 2003 6:24 am

Correction;; My frypan is a 1933 , not a 1931. BILL

Donald Ruetenik · Post by **Donald Ruetenik** » 9 Oct 2003 6:48 am

I would suspect these companies are offering only 6 strings for now because of the availability of 'off the shelf' parts, i.e. bridges and pickups.

I'm sure if enough customer interest is generated then more models might appear on the scene. I see that Rickenbacher has one on their web site. Gretch's model was discussed in another thread. Musician's Friend has been offering a cheapo for a while along with a Chandler. If Gibson is sticking their toe in the water then that might be an indication of something. And don't ignore other companies that might jump in.

With Sierra being out of business the higher priced niche will need to be filled.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 9 Oct 2003 11:18 am

Even though I am a country C6 player, I also understand that most people who would buy these brand new lap steels are probably going to just tune it to open G or E and play modern rock or blues with distortion.

People that play older forms of music, like country or hawaiian, are the players who usually seek out 1930's Rickenbackers and 1950's Fenders.

Don't forget, most rock n roll guys think Rickenbacker is from England, and didn't make musical instrumants until 1964.

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 9 Oct 2003 8:05 pm

I just can't help it...

I mostly play 8-string (and 7-string) laps, but rarely use the 8th, and sometimes use the 7th, but if I had to, I could forego the 7th and use the 6th instead by slanting. I'd bet the better lap players could use a six string any day and sound just as good as anyone playing an 8-stringer. When I calculate it, the 7th and 8th strings add but just a couple of voicings you can't get with six strings, and that's in the lowest couple of keys you're playing on your guitar. Anything higher, and they really are just a convenience of staying at the same level of frets instead of moving down a couple using the first six.

It's all in style, too. I prefer the sound of the lighter strings, so I use the first six -- and actually the first four, more than anything on my 8-string laps. This also keeps out of the way of the bass when you're playing live or recording.

Agreements, disagreements?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 10 Oct 2003 4:21 am

I prefer 6 string Hawaiian steels ...

I use C6/A7 ...

(lo to hi) C# E G A C E

and E9 ...

(lo to hi) D E F# G# B E

There are more than enough combinations for me ...

I like the string spacing ...

And there is just somethin' about the "feel" of 6 strings under my hand. Kinda like a country road vs. an Interstate highway

I don't even use the 6th strings that much ... just an occasional "trip" to the lower register for a bassy run or a strum across that 7th (9th) chord ....

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www.horseshoemagnets.com [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 10 October 2003 at 08:33 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Oct 2003 6:28 am

I feet that anytime you start to use the "6th" tunings you need more than 6 strings. On a straight major tuning, 6 strings are adequate but with the added 6th note, your range is severly limited.

Erv

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 10 Oct 2003 9:53 am

Well, I'm still learning and the 6 stringers are a great place to start I think. The guys I like the most play on 6 strings. My role modals are Don Helms E6, Jerry Byrd and Dewitt Scott C6 and Dick McIntire F#9/C#m7. I do however feel that 8 string A6 is a very important tuning to get into and C13 when you get satisfied with your 6 string education. I would like to also check out JB's E9 tuning on a 6 string when I am ready oneday. I mean Don Helms was said to ignore the 7th & 8th strings on his E6 neck and look what great stuff he did with his approach?

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 11 Oct 2003 3:43 am

Gibson sells guitars to guitar players that go to those huge guitar outlets. If they are really coming out with a new or re-edition lap steel, this is whom they are pitching it to, not us. If it's priced right and looks "cool" they might just grab one and take it home and slide guitar on it with them long 3 3/4 fret slid inns on every note Jerry Byrd loves so much

.
7, 8, 10 or what ever strings look scary to most normal homosapiens' so...

Anyway, I think it's good for la cosa nostra, then some may pick up on it and it may over time bring some younger fresh blood into our little world.

... J-D.

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 11 Oct 2003 9:36 am

A lot of great music can be made on only 6 strings. Most of the playing is done there anyway. In fact, I have a couple of my 8 string necks strung with just 6 strings on one and 7 on the other.

But from a business perspective, if someone were to put the time and effort into re-introducing a product that they haven't sold for xxx amount of years, I would think that someone in market research would say, "hmmm...there doesn't seem to be a "standard" in the steel guitar world when it comes to many variables...tunings, scale length, string spacing, # of strings, etc.....A segment of the market will want 6 strings, another will want 7 or 8. So to have a better chance of making this a profitable venture, we'd better have options available to satisfy more of this very small group of guitar players."

Didn't Gibson stop making steels in the late 60's? I wonder how many employees are still there from over 30 years ago that would be knowledgeable enough of the steel guitar world to begin a production line again? And, why offer only one model, when by looking at the company's history, a rich variety of steels were previously produced, based on market demand at the time?

In my little corporate corner of the world, I've seen too many great projects go down the tubes due to mismanagement and poor planning. Peoples heart was in the right place, but someone a little more competent in the subject matter should have been running things.

To have the excitement of one of the major steel manufacturers begin producing again, it would sadden me to see it fail because a little more R&D wasn't done.

Can you imagine Fender announcing to produce steels again? How many of us would begin drooling instantly? All snug in our beds, with visions of beautiful blonde Quads and Customs dancing in our heads? (Or my favorite: the "Custom-Quad" - the great tone of the Custom, with an extra neck)!

But, think of the disappointment, when all of our dream bubbles simultaneously burst at the announcement that only a 6 string Champ will be offered!

Kudos to Gibson if the rumor is true. But let's do it right,

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 11 Oct 2003 10:06 am

I bought a new GoldTone lap steel at Elderly Instruments last Saturday and the cashier mentioned they keep them in stock because they sold twenty last year

Roger Shackelton · Post by **Roger Shackelton** » 11 Oct 2003 12:52 pm

Hi Kevin. How do you rate your new GoldTone Lap steel?

Kevin Ruddell · Post by **Kevin Ruddell** » 11 Oct 2003 5:48 pm

Roger , I'll post it under that topic

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 12 Oct 2003 2:59 pm

Boy, I didn't know I'd start such a thread by making this undercover announcment. I also didn't know that there was a market for six stringers.
My store is in the middle of a little musical industrial section in a suburb of Nashville and it seems as though a lot of the bigger manufacturers do their prototyping and expermenting with new product at shops that are walking distence from our front door. I'm sure I shouldn't be telling everything I see here but this was a very interesting development in our small world of steel guitar, I just thought I'd pass it along.

(anyone want to buy my double six Fender Custom???)

bobbeseymour

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 28 Jun 2005 9:37 am

I'm still holding my breath. Any word on new Gibbys? I just won a '59 Korina Skylark on ebay just so I could say I have a '59 something that is still affordable.

Gerald Pierce · Post by **Gerald Pierce** » 28 Jun 2005 12:07 pm

Maybe it'll be a hybrid of some older models.

For instance, the new Gibson BR-549.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 28 Jun 2005 6:29 pm

I would think if we haven't heard anything in two years, the chances of such a guitar being released soon are slight.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Harry Williams · Post by **Harry Williams** » 28 Jun 2005 10:24 pm

I agree with Ray that you can do an awful lot on a 6-string lap steel - my personal learning curve is still pretty steep - what with learning harmony scales, and slanted altered chords!
And Bill, is it the pedal steel players today who all sound the same, or are the producers just selecting from their 10-15 studio takes the ones that sound the most "commercial"? Listen to what those players are doing when they are having fun - it's mostly jazz and far out stuff and they all sound VERY different from one another.

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Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 28 Jun 2005 11:25 pm

Maybe we should ask b0b to edit this topic title from, "New Gibson Lap Steels, Coming soon"

to

"New Gibson Lap Steels, Coming soon - in your dreams"

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 29 June 2005 at 02:00 PM.]