converting accoustic guitar to lap

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 16 Jun 2005 9:51 am

I like the sound of regular steel string accoustic guitar played lap style. Are any guitars better suited than others for conversion (particulary in terms of tone)? What's the deal with square neck accoustics?

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 16 Jun 2005 10:11 am

Good question. Actually the older guitars are better suited for lap work. The were made a little heavier and had better sound sustain. I have an old Gibson jumbo box that I had given to me in 1961 that weighs about 50% more than my Yamaha 160 jumbo box. The old Gibson, one of the very few large, older jumbos that Gibson made, has a sustain about 30% longer than my Yamaha. And my 1971 Yamaha has about a 30% longer sustain than my brother's late 70s, 185 Gibson.

On the other hand, it will more than likely end up being a personal choice of what sound you want out of the guitar.

Then again, if you want to convert to a metal bridge at both ends, you may have sample several accoustic guitars to get the sound you want or, expect.[This message was edited by Les Anderson on 16 June 2005 at 11:16 AM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Jun 2005 10:16 am

If you are going to use a nut extender on a roundneck, be careful. I did that and now the guitar looks like an archtop from the stress.

Sounds good though.

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 16 Jun 2005 11:20 am

Howard, when you say be careful do you mean about string tension? Was it the neck that warped? What are the guidelines re tension on a standard accoustic guitar? Can I tune to A6 w/o bending such a guitar?

Tom Baylis · Post by **Tom Baylis** » 16 Jun 2005 11:20 am

I did just that (nut extender) with a cheapie circa 1980 Takamine 12-string that I had & cared little for, removed 6 of the tuners, tuned it to G. It looks odd, but does all right and is good for home practice...projects well, but the tone is thin.

I much prefer the old non-resonator Oahu square-neck I found recently. The older square-necks are amazing in their warm, rich tone and their ability to project. I'm always on the lookout for 'em.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Jun 2005 12:11 pm

Spanish guitars are not braced for the string tension. I originally had A6, then went to C6/A7.

The top bowed around the top of the soundhole & upper bouts. It did crack in two places and settled in. You can't see the cracks but the top looks like an archtop. I'll try to post some photos.

The guitar sounds darned good as I say, but you don't want to do this to a good gitan.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 16 Jun 2005 1:05 pm

My '30s MayBell has a totally unique sound, unlike anything I've heard in a Weissenborn or a new flattop.
Can't remember how much I paid for it, but they go quite cheap on eBay and this one was worth every cent....

I keep it in open-D with Newtone Aloha strings (.015 - .056) without any problems.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 Jun 2005 2:03 pm

You should check out the instructional video by Kelly Joe Phelps, he spends some time talking about how he did this with his old Gibson J-45. He tunes it to open D to avoid all the stress on the guitar, and it is still, in his words, "quite fragile". He also demonstrates a novel way to capo the guitar. His tone is to die for, and he also shows sone great techniques that I use for regular lap steel playing.

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MSA Classic 12, Peavey Delta Blues, Proco Rat, Robert Randolph - Shubb bars

George Rout · Post by **George Rout** » 16 Jun 2005 5:37 pm

They used rugged Stella (by Harmony) guitars back in the 40's and 50's for Hawaiian guitar schools, and some of those old Stellas are still around unwarped!!!! I have 3 tuned to A Major.
Geo

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 Jun 2005 6:56 pm

Stephan Miller · Post by **Stephan Miller** » 16 Jun 2005 7:45 pm

Steinar, I want to say thanks for posting the heads-up on the MayBell acoustic steels last year. I got one a few months back on eBay, around $125, and love it (roundneck w/ raised nut, open G, low bass tuning). After that, picked up a 40's Oahu acoustic same way ($99, squareneck, open D). Peter, there are a bunch of these out there in decent or better shape-- you won't go wrong with either one IMO. --Steve

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 16 Jun 2005 9:20 pm

Jeepers, Howard, Look what it did to the sound hole!

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 16 Jun 2005 10:22 pm

I have an old Oahu student model Hawaiian guitar, round neck and extremely high action. I have it tuned with regular reso-gage strings (0.016" and up) This guitar is not very loud, but sounds very good tuned to open D or lo-bass G, and seems very structurally stable. I stumbled into a Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker a few weeks ago, and put the two together. It's a combination that was meant to be. And I think that the low inherent volume of the guitar is actually a plus in resisting feedback when plugged in.

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 6:36 am

So this is the list I have so far; any other suggestions?

Weissenbon (square)
Stella by Harmony (rounded?)
MayBell acoustics (rounded)
Oahu (square)
Regal (square)[This message was edited by Peter Goeden on 17 June 2005 at 08:23 AM.][This message was edited by Peter Goeden on 17 June 2005 at 09:50 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Jun 2005 7:08 am

My MayBell is a roundnecks, but I suspect it may have been meant for bottleneck slide or lap steel playing, because the bridge on mine (it's original) is so tall that the guitar is virtually unplayable past the third fret. The neck is perfectly straight and well set, so I don't think the high action is caused by any damage to it.

And of course,- a hollowneck weissenborn style guitar is definitely an option, I just got the impression you were looking for a less expensive solution in a regular guitar you could convert for lap steel playing.

I once brought both my weissenborn and the MayBell to a studio session, and we ended up using them 50/50. It doesn't sound 'better', just 'different',- a very rough, dry, 'in-your-face' kind of sound that contrasts the more 'elegant' sound of a weissenborn nicely.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 7:21 am

Thanks Steinar. Any other square necks you're familiar with?[This message was edited by Peter Goeden on 17 June 2005 at 08:21 AM.]

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 7:37 am

You're right Steinar... I'm looking for input on both less expensive convertables and purpose-built squarenecks.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Jun 2005 7:56 am

My experience is limited to three weissenborn style guitars,- a Superior, a Celtic Cross, and my current Lazy River. I also owned a cheap Harmony squareneck guitar for a while, but got rid of it pretty soon,- it sounded like a cardboard box.

Bought a Seagull 'Folk' acoustic a while back and tested it with an extension nut,- it sounded beautiful, very sweet and warm sound with great sustain. Only $369 on Elderly, I may buy one more of these to have as an acoustic lap steel that I don't need to worry about....

My Lazy River weiss is definitely my favorite though, incredibly loud with a clear harp/piano like sound.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Tom Baylis · Post by **Tom Baylis** » 17 Jun 2005 7:59 am

Regal used to make non-resonator square necks, but they seem rare..at least from my searches so far. I know of one, and it's a gem.

Side query: does anyone know who actually made those old Oahu square necks? I'm assuming it was several different makers, since the quality and wood seems to vary a lot. I'm presuming that Regal must've been one of 'em.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 17 Jun 2005 8:05 am

Oahu squarenecks were mostly made by Regal and Kay, with Kay models being considered of better quality (as far as I can tell).

I used to own an Oahu squareneck acoustic similar to this one, and while it had a beautiful tone, it was too quiet for my tastes. I sold it for a little bit more than I bought it for and bought a tricone instead.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 8:48 am

So Weissenborn and Oahu are STYLES, not models?

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 8:51 am

BTW, I think I'm in the market for a Weissinborn or Oahu! Anybody selling?[This message was edited by Peter Goeden on 17 June 2005 at 09:52 AM.]

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 17 Jun 2005 8:56 am

Weissenborn and Oahu are both brand names, much like Fender, Gibson, Supro or National. Many of the big Chicago manufacturers (Regal, Valco, Harmony) made guitars for others to put their brand names on.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Jun 2005 9:26 am

Peter,- Weissenborn is a brand name, after Herman Weissenborn who was the first to successfully market these instruments to the public (others, like Chris Knutsen, were making similar guitars before Weissenborn).

But the name 'Weissenborn' has also become the standard name for descriding acoustic hollownecked lap steel guitars, much like 'dobro' has become a name for single-coned resonator guitars (Gibson ownes the name 'dobro' these days..).

I hope I'm not adding to your confusion....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Peter Goeden · Post by **Peter Goeden** » 17 Jun 2005 9:33 am

Steinar, I don't feel confused, just educated. When you mentioned "a Superior, a Celtic Cross, and my current Lazy River" are these manufactorers, brands, or models?