Steel guitar collections STINK!

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 3 Feb 2003 8:13 pm

Kenny
You are right. Thats where my Bigsby went over to Japan and according to Paul Warnik was bought by a Japanese collector for $9000.00..Oh boy..

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 4 Feb 2003 1:57 am

After reading this thread I found the 'debate' rather amusing, and I've found that there are pros and cons to collecting guitars (or anything else for that matter).

The pros are: a) if the guitars are different, you have several 'sounds' to choose from. If you can afford it, why not? Who wouldn't want a variety of different woods, pickups, bright or mellow sounds, etc., etc.? Therefore, a collection is indispensable to any guitarist who's serious about playing. b) If the collection contains older guitars, these instruments are preserved and can be passed on to future generations of players who are curious about what earlier instruments felt or sounded like. These same collectors can provide parts or buy/sell/trade with other collectors just to keep the older instruments in circulation. In other words, collecting can be a hobby and a business.

The cons are: a) in the case of pedal steels, space is required if one wants to keep them on display and ready to play. The more steels you have, the more space you will need (unless you're content to leave most of them in their cases). I have only one steel and it gets in my way at times, so I wouldn't think of buying a second one even if I could afford it. b) the problem with collections of any kind is that you can't take them with you when you die. You will never know what will happen to some of your most prized possessions after you're gone. All the fuss over that rare gem in the collection could go to waste if it ends up in the hands of someone who doesn't appreciate it.

That being said, collectors are not 'pigs'. There is a difference between collectors and hoarders. A hoarder is worse than a pig. Buying up a bunch of goodies and stashing them away so they never see the light of day is just downright insane. I'm a model railroader, and while I have what could be a small 'collection' of locomotives, they all take turns running on my layout. Years ago I met a fellow modeler who hoards locomotives - he has a huge stash and leaves most of them to sit in their boxes. He has no layout, so they will never see any action. To me, that is just plain greed, and I hope he loses sleep wondering what's going to happen to his hoard after he dies. I've never heard of anyone hoarding guitars, but in this world I guess almost anything is possible.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, what we have here is a classic case of envy. What really makes me angry is that people, men especially, tend to measure each other's worth on the basis of what they own. In other words, he who dies with the most toys, wins. But when push comes to shove, it's not what you've got that matters, but who you are.

And speaking of that, instead of just posting pictures of flashy looking steels on the forum, why not create a special section with the names and photos of members playing their guitars? Or if they own more than one guitar, their favourite guitar. The guitars are fine to look at, but they're nothing without the people who sit behind them.

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 4 Feb 2003 5:27 am

Don,
I guess you'll just have to HOLD YOUR NOSE! Or put a clothespin on it!
Love them BUDS, as many as my wife allows!!!

Neil

Eric Myers · Post by **Eric Myers** » 4 Feb 2003 7:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>quote:
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What if Stevie Wonder's folks had not been able to provide him with a piano, a chromatic harmonica and music lessons when he was a kid?
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Ray Charles would have had more gigs? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man have you ever seen Ray Charles's wife?
Neither has he!
Ok back to the regularly scheduled program.......

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 4 Feb 2003 8:16 am

It's only February, but already I'm tempted to give Don the "Flame Bait of the Year" award. Hard to top this one!

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 4 Feb 2003 8:34 am

Years ago I met a fellow modeler who hoards locomotives - he has a huge stash and leaves most of them to sit in their boxes. He has no layout, so they will never see any action. To me, that is just plain greed, and I hope he loses sleep wondering what's going to happen to his hoard after he dies.

I don't collect steel guitars. I DO collect postwar Lionel Trains. I consider this post a mean-spirited and offensive assault on ALL collectors. What right do you or ANYONE have to criticize what I choose to do with my money and where I spend it. I owe you no explanation as to why I choose to collect or use anything. I am not accountable to you if I own steel guitars that I don't play, trains that I don't run, rare wine that I don't drink, or whatever. There are always bitter people who have a problem with collectors. Collecting is an outgrowth of our supply and demand, capitalist economy. Anyone can sell something for what someone is willing to pay and rare, desirable items bring more money because of that, and that makes perfect sense. And you know what, those of you who are annoyed about this, instead of getting mad at steel guitar collectors, get mad at all your fellow steel players that have driven up the prices of push-pulls, so that instead of costing $900 like an MSA, or $1250 like a Sho-Bud, they cost $2500 and more. They should have never paid extra just to get a push-pull, and then the prices wouldn't have gone up. But of course, it isn't politically correct to blame the push-pull onwers who paid extra. So instead, blame collectors since they are a minority, have some discretionary cash, and are an easy target. Collectors don't tend to cause prices initially to go up. Average consumers drive up the prices initially because of their greater interest in certain items. The collectors jump on board after that.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Feb 2003 8:59 am

why not create a special section with the names and photos of members playing their guitars?

Both my steel guitars are a lot prettier than I am. Why ruin a perfectly good picture of a beazutiful instrument by sticking somebody like me in there?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 4 Feb 2003 10:06 am

Good 'post', Jeff!

Someone on this thread has justified his accumulation of model locomotives by saying that he actually runs them, while another correspondant speaks of playing all the guitars that he has. No justification, however, is required - we can do whatever we want with our 'stuff'!

We're in the process of moving 'house', and I've just re-discovered a Telecaster I forgot that I owned! Curious as it may seem to some contributors to this topic, I feel no compunction to make a gift of this to anybody - however 'deserving' they may be; if there's someone out there consumed with a real passion to play an instrument, then that passion will drive them to acquire what they need.

My engines ('3rd Rail Brass' or MTH 'Premier' in my case, Jeff) simply sit on shelves - there's real joy in their aesthetics alone, and I have guitars that haven't seen the light of day for months ('though they will when their turn comes). I don't sit and calculate the value of these items, but the pleasure I've derived from them is inestimable.

I think that this 'thread' was started in fairly light-hearted vein, but its tone has become a little 'dark' (you'll have to pry my 'Union Pacific Big-Boy' from my cold, dead fingers!!!)

I wish I had Herb's steel collection - AND that Martin 000-21!!!!!

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Roger Rettig

Billy Woo · Post by **Billy Woo** » 4 Feb 2003 11:07 am

What did Hannibal lector say to Clarice when she was tryin to find out who "Buffalo Bill's secret Identity"...

He Covets..

Just joking around with my steel brethren, as the first post is a joke as well..

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 4 Feb 2003 11:37 am

In the world Mike's seeking to find, there would be ONLY vintage guitars, because there would be damn little motivation for anyone to build new ones.

What a completely asinine train of thought, Mike.

Just because someone is a real party animal doesn't entitle them to a bargain price on the Playboy Mansion.

Gosh!

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HagFan

Don McClellan · Post by **Don McClellan** » 4 Feb 2003 11:38 am

I figure all the forumites here who have not contributed to this thread are in agreement with me but don't want to make anyone mad at them so they choose to remain silent and root for me from the sidelines. That's over 3000 people. An overwelming victory for me and I appreciate the support. Yes, this landslide victory is one we can all share in and as holder of the 2003 "F"BOY (Flame Bait Of the Year award) I promise to do everything in my power to bravely and boldly guide us into this new millenium, so full of wonderment and uncertainty.

Thank you very, very much everybody! Don

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 4 Feb 2003 11:39 am

Yeah, right Don.

Hope you get your perscription refilled soon.

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HagFan

PS: 86-posts, 3-pages nd counting... That will be tough to beat. [This message was edited by Ron Page on 04 February 2003 at 11:41 AM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 4 Feb 2003 12:00 pm

Thanks to Herb S for the kind words

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 4 Feb 2003 1:19 pm

_____________________________________________
I figure all the forumites here who have not contributed to this thread are in agreement with me but don't want to make anyone mad at them so they choose to remain silent and root for me from the sidelines.
_____________________________________________
Don, do you think you could be MORE presumptious?? Consider this---maybe some guys just don't CARE! The Herbster was dead on on this one, we should have ALL left it alone. And bOb, SHAME ON YOU! You painted a big "S" on this guy's shirt, now he thinks he's Superman!
The only thing I regret about the "collector" thing, was I didn't see it coming! I'd have bought Teles and Strats when they were being sold by the pound.
Hey, I'm an idiotic musician, what do I know about investments?
Perlowin, you've about argued yourself into a circle, haven't you. I guess nobody should own a bunch of guitars, EXCEPT YOU?!?!?!
I'm gonna buy some more stuff, sell some stuff(at a profit!), then buy some more stuff. It's called "capitalism." Look into it!

Gary Morrison · Post by **Gary Morrison** » 4 Feb 2003 1:40 pm

Well, I probably shouldn't do this, but...I own five pedal steels, seven Fender quad necks, seven fender triple necks, one fender double neck, and several lap steels. My dad began teaching me the steel when I was ten. My dad is now 82, and he has about 200 vintage instruments (violins, steel guitars, banjos, guitars). I have been in love with the steel guitar for 42 years, since I was 10 years old. I intend to own many more. And yes, I'm a player. I work hard to earn money, and rather than put it into something that I don't know about, I put it into something that I know about (at least a little). The steel guitar is MY PASSION, and that's what I invest my money in, and as much of my time as is possible. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 4 Feb 2003 1:56 pm

WOW
A man after my own heart

That "F" word makes me smile.

I sure would like to see a few of those
FENDERS.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 04 February 2003 at 01:59 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Feb 2003 3:35 pm

Well...I see it this way.

Guitars are a lot like women.

You see, when you're young, you want to "own" just about every new and different one you come across. Then, as you get older, you realize that you'd probably have been happier if you could have just found that "right" one first!

Gary Morrison · Post by **Gary Morrison** » 4 Feb 2003 5:27 pm

Jody: If you're ever in the Denver area, you would be warmly welcomed into my home to see my guitars. I have been reading all of your posts for the last couple of years, and I have nothing but respect for you. When I'm playing any of my Fenders, you come to mind. I play several nights a month, and I always take a pedal steel and one of the Fenders. I like to have both on stage. By the way, I can't wait for that book to come out!

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 4 Feb 2003 5:37 pm

i don't see this as flame bait. i think don made a point and dan tyack answered it

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 4 Feb 2003 9:52 pm

Thank You very much Gary. That is a nice compliment you paid me. It would be my pleasure to come and see your collection and
get to "Mile High Stadium" to see the Rockies
play.

I have not been working as dilligently on my book as of late,I have been sidetracked by personal health issues with my wife.

I'm going to make an attempt to get the book
into high gear as soon as I possibly can.

I myself get enjoyment from the memories as
I re-live them as I write of a time long gone

Being a Fender enthusiast as you are,I think
you will enjoy my stories of a time no longer.

I'm impressed with your collection and I look
up to someone like yourself who has the courage to disclose what you are proud to own
I know I would.

Thanks again for your nice words,I appreciate
them. I will make everyone aware of the introduction of my book. I will post it when
its ready to hatch.

Jody.. edited to think of all those Fenders you have,you certainly are proud and a lucky
guy to have them.and that goes both ways,they
are lucky to have a home like you gave them.

Good Luck.[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 04 February 2003 at 09:55 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 5 Feb 2003 4:43 am

An overwelming victory for me and I appreciate the support

Congradulations. I propose we throw a victory party for Don, but first, we'll have to take up a collection

[This message was edited by HowardR on 05 February 2003 at 05:17 AM.]

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 5 Feb 2003 5:09 am

[Rimshot]

I can't think of a more appropriate way to end this thread, Howard!

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 5 Feb 2003 5:15 am

I agree with Donny Hinson!

Also, to Don McC - loved (and *recognized*!) the humor in your last post...
My mother says (on any possible occasion!) "moderation in everything"... There are points on both sides of this, for those who are willing to be objective

Sure, people are entitled to own whatever they want to. Equally, it is a shame if fine old instruments are put away and never played, or even appreciated (and I think we all realize this would *not* be the case with anyone on this forum), or even worse taken apart for analysis so they can be reproduced in a factory...
None of this is really worth getting mad about, though!
Nick

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Feb 2003 4:01 pm

There seems to have been a lot of confusion on this thread as to what people meant. I can't speak for anybody else, but my objection is to one specific situation.

In Japan, it has become fashionable among some very wealthy people to collect as many vintage instruments as possible. I don't mean people owning dozen of guitars, but rather hundreds, sometimes thousands of irreplaceable vintage treasures. I've heard on one banjo collection with over 5,000 pieces, including hundreds of Pre WW2 Gibson Mastertones, Vega Whyte Laydies (I think that's the way they were spelled when they were being manufactured) and Tubaphones.

These precious instruments are being lost to the world's musicians forever, and people like us, for whom these are tools with which we create our art are being denied the use of them.

A side effect of this hoarding is that the prices of the few remaining vintage instruments as been artificially jacked up to the point where they are absolutely beyond the reach of most musicians. I've seen pre-CBS strats selling for $12 to 15,000, and 50's vintage Les Pauls going for over $20 grand. One of our fellow forumites has a 1959 Gretsch White Falcon that he bought new in 1959, for which he was offered $80,000.

This is not my opinion, this is fact.

My opinion is that this sucks. My emotional reaction to this is that I resent the fact that if I find an old guitar I love, I will not have the opportunity to buy it at a price commensurate with it's value to me as a working tool. And I defy anybody who sees a beautiful guitar that they would like to own, only to find that it costs over $20,000 due to this unfortunate situation, to feel differently.

I have no problem whatsoever with guys like Herb and Paul Warnick and Mike Weirich and Gary Morrisson having collections of steels for their personal use, and I hope none of you guys think I was attacking you personally.

Oh and BTW, before this situation developed, there were plenty of guitar companies making instruments. The availability of vintage guitars at reasonable prices did not put anybody out of business. To suggest that if they were still available at these prices, this would somehow would prevent the manufacture of new guitars is totally absurd.

I can't even begin to guess at the logic behind such a ridiculous assertion.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 5 Feb 2003 5:16 pm

Mike
If it were up to me and I had the money,I would buy all the Fender steel guitars I could get my hands on,and to think all those
years I had my hands on thousands of them and
never realized how precious they would be.

Everyone of them would be another memory for me. I understand your point,but there are people who enjoy collecting,whether they play
them or not.Its a hobby I guess.

Thank you my friend
Jody