Sex Show

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 6 Jan 2003 8:57 am

BobG,

Yes, I truly believe that (at least) 70% of Shania's talent and appeal to the audience is in the movements and the dress. How do I know? I'm a healthy adult male.

She is not the only female performer to market themselves in this way. Britney and Christina are two more that come to mind and they are not even country. I don't say that this is totally a bad thing. It just makes a convenient camouflage for musical talent, or lack thereof.

You, on doubt, have heard Britney's CD's;___who would be buying these recordings if she presented herself at live audiences in the same manner as did Crystal Gayle?

But since this is the Steel Guitar Forum, think about this question: If the steel guitarist, at Super Bowl halftime, makes the best performance of his life, with Shania's style of delivery, who will notice except another steel guitar player? There is too much distraction in the forefront.

Rick

Billy Poteet · Post by **Billy Poteet** » 6 Jan 2003 9:04 am

I probably wont watch the Halftime show either. I just don't like Shania's music. It has nothing to do whether or not she's a great entertainer or is she's sexy or not it just has to do with the music. Different strokes for different folks. Her music does nothing for me but there are plenty of folks
that would disagree. I think they have the right to do so, and I think Rick has a right to his oponion without getting scorched for
his beliefs. She sure is easy on the eyes but so are a lot of others and I don't like most of their music either.

Billy P.

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Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 6 Jan 2003 10:13 am

Why dont you guys take a chill pill and give Shania,Bruce Bouton,and Paul Franklin a well deserved break.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 6 Jan 2003 11:31 am

Shania and many other contemporary country artists are promoted in a completely sexual way, i.e. as sex symbols. Fair enough, but then why all this insistance that they be taken seriously as musicians or singers. Like their sex appeal, if they have the other stuff we'll eventually notice.

As for giving Shania, Paul and Bruce a break, I don't think their futures really depend much on what we here on forum say or do. They're selling millions of records to Shania's target market, which isn't that well represented "here". I wish them each the very best and will continue to witness their efforts on my kind of music -- on a George Strait, Alan Jackson or similar recording.

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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 06 January 2003 at 11:32 AM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Jan 2003 12:56 pm

I think it's terrible the way these modern artists are using sex to sell music. Back in the day, I used watch the Porter Wagoner show to.....ah... listen to Don Warden play steel.....that must have been it....

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www.tyack.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Jan 2003 1:52 pm

Somehow I think that Paul and Bruce's resumes were not adversely effected by listing Shania as a client...

tp

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 6 Jan 2003 1:54 pm

That was back when they made you take an IQ test before you could watch it, right Dan?

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 6 Jan 2003 2:26 pm

Taking the MUSIC as a separate entity, Shania doesn't have large appeal here on The Forum.

I'll make you a friendly bet. The morning after the Super Bowl there will be more chatter here about what Shania wore and how she moved than about the music -- except perhaps all the disappointment about the lack of PSG.

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HagFan

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Jan 2003 5:21 pm

I haven't seen Shania much, but I've always enjoyed her singles, especially Mutt Lang's backup vocals. His production techniques are flawless, IMHO. He's a real master of the art. Who would have guessed that he'd also be a great harmony singer.

I don't buy Shania's CDs, though. She doesn't need my support. I buy Dale Watson's CDs instead.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6), Roland Handsonic

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 6 Jan 2003 5:44 pm

Garth was bad, but she's worse than Garth. She's "Garth minus".

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 6 Jan 2003 5:54 pm

I just mailed Bruce and Paul some Halcion to help them with all the sleep they're losing over this thread...

(Ooops, better send some to Hinson, too. After Kevin's comments about him in another thread, he's probably up, too...)[This message was edited by John Macy on 06 January 2003 at 06:06 PM.]

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 6 Jan 2003 6:08 pm

I read the article on her in TIME recently-very well written-and it's obvious to me anyway that there's steel on thsoe records because Mutt and Shania believe it helps ship additional units to the country fan base without alienating more pop minded listeners. They make it VERY clear that they want to make the best selling album of all time-and their decisions on production and writing are made to that end. It's something Lange is VERY good at. He's ruthless about what songs make the final cut-or even gets rehearsed. He's old school-ALL songs on the album should be number one hits-not just a couple. (Remember when a Beatles album, or stones, or anyone for that matter, had a dozen GREAT songs on it?) So I think it's kind of a badge of honor that steel tracks made the final mix with such prominence. He obviously believes it is a sound that belongs on those songs and will help sell more copies, not less-in contrast with most of the so called "country" establishment. the numbers back him up. I hope they succeed-Lange refuses to call the album country, instead calling it pop. (he also calls heavy metal pop,btw) I would LOVE to see a Pop album laced with steel become the best seller of all time. It's a copycat industry, and you just wait-there'll be more steel on the airwaves than you can listen to.
He's clearly on to something-the sales figures say they just might pull it off.

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
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http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 6 Jan 2003 8:45 pm

I digress to throwing in my two cents. Only because it's late and I've been doing vocals all day which is'nt near as entertaining as this forum.
I only worked with Shania and Mutt on three tracks. Paul is her main steel guy and John Hughey and I got on a few of the tracks. That's not the point. On the records that are pitched to country radio steel guitar is heavily featured. They are smart enough to realize that pop programers will generally raise hell if steel guitar is that prominent on a record and the record won't get played. For that reason they make alternative mixes.
I do believe that Mutt and Shania really love the instrument. Millions of folks are getting to hear a pedal steel mixed loud and clear. That's a good thing.
From a musician and prducer point of view some of her singles blow me away.The production and performance is stellar. But that's just my opinion.In a few years whats it gonna matter. They'll be getting pissed off at someone elses success. I'd like to try and ignore the Garth criticism but considering the source I'd just like to say that Garth happens to be a really good friend of mine . For that matter so does Mike Daly(who I've known since 1980).
Happy New Year

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Jan 2003 9:09 pm

Hear's a true story.

I was doing a pop session the other day her in Seattle and the 20 something producer and engineer (who are amazing, world class) went on and on about how much they loved the production of Shania's new singles. Then they said 'but she's so ugly (and tacky)'.

So you never know what impresses people....

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www.tyack.com

Brian Wetzstein · Post by **Brian Wetzstein** » 7 Jan 2003 3:05 am

At 27 I am probably on the outside of her target demographic, but I have enjoyed the singles from this album. I think the steel parts are great. I will watch the show if I can get out of work...

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 7 Jan 2003 8:14 am

I agree that the steel community should be pleased to have our instrument and premier players featured on Shania’s recordings. However, Bruce really raises an issue on the practice of offering alternative tracks. He points out that it sells records that otherwise would not have sold. Fair enough!

Tying this back to the original question regarding live (or stage) performances, which mix will we get to hear live?

I think few expect the steel mix will be broadcast to the SB audience. So, while the alternate mix serves the artist, the record company, and the record-buying public, it shortchanges the (country) concert fan.

What a divisive thing, this steel guitar.

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HagFan

PS: As I recall, The Dixie Chicks turned down requests for alternate mixes -- with steel removed. Probably that cost 'em big money.[This message was edited by Ron Page on 07 January 2003 at 08:16 AM.]

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 7 Jan 2003 10:50 pm

The first thing that attracted me to Shania was her single "Whose Bed Have Your Boots Been Under?". It was a new and refreshing sound. I never even saw her until she had about three hits on the radio. The fact that she is gorgeous IMHO is just a bonus.

I like hard country as well as anyone, but how are you ever gonna learn a new kind of lick or get a new sound in your head if you listen to the same old stuff over and over ?

Thanks Bruce Bouton for being on here, glad we haven't run off all the well-known players (yet). Happy New Year to all.

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Doug Earnest
The only Zum Keyless U12, Fender Cyber Twin

Ricky0ne1 · Post by **Ricky0ne1** » 7 Jan 2003 11:40 pm

I praise the Dixie Chicks for their integrity and class..
But I also think judging successful entertainers is kinda silly.. they made it, and they want to stay there.. who wouldn't?

As entertainers in certain venues, artists are trying to put together the best possible mix that will please the most possible viewers... if that sounds like playing to the market, that's exactly what it is. That's what happens when one turns 'professional' and 'makes it'.
I don't know any 'amateurs' or 'professionals' that wouldn't step out of their humble situations if asked by a big-time musician/entertainer. Most can only dream of such an offer.
If I had the chops and the offers, I'd step into Paul's, Bruce's, Marc Muller's or any pro's steelin' boots any day.. and so would anyone on this forum..
I don't watch football, so I won't see "the sex show"...
I'll bet some folks still think Barbara Eden shoulda kept that belly button under wraps...

My $.02
Rick Summers

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Jan 2003 11:59 pm

Just a shot as this sinks into oblivion but Bill Haley and The Comets used a stand up steel on their Rock Around The Clock deal. Stage left, it was edited out of later pictures. Probably out of the mix as well.

I dunno. I was busy watching Mrs Francis' Ding Dong School or Arthur Godfrey on our round TV wondering where to order Ukulele Wax.

I like Shania. "Whose bed" had a nice steel track on it.

Wonder what's happening over on the Musical Handsawyers Forum?

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 8 Jan 2003 2:32 am

Did someone mention Hee Haw? That was a 'sex show' of sorts. I saw more cleavage on Hee Haw than in current country music videos. Hot chicks, bad jokes, and country music. A rather unique combination. I don't remember looking for any steel players on that show. Too many other things to divert my attention.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 8 Jan 2003 8:05 am

Who's Bed... is the one I most liked too. Lost interest soon after that (same scenario for Garth, Clint Black, Leanne Rhymes and Lee Ann Womack)

I was thinking about this thread yesterday as I headed home. I had Gene Watson ("Memories To Burn" and "Heartaches, Love & Stuff") on the CD player.

It's not even debatable from a country steel guitarist's perspective. To compare the steel guitar mix in music I like with current country top-40 records is a tad silly. In my opinion there's simply no comparison. Call me narrow minded, but that's how I see it. The steel is given heavy play in GW mix. I know that's a tough standard, but that's where I'm at.

As far as learning anything new, in my case there's already too much left to learn on the tradational country records to worry about what I'm missing elsewhere.

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HagFan

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 8 Jan 2003 8:24 am

Shania and Mutt run a business - a very successful one. You can't fault them for knowing their audience, or knock the great session players who recognize a great career opportunity and give the steel all that exposure it deserves.

As musicians, we might expect others to see things like we do: in musical terms - but it doesn't work that way. My younger cousins (who buy the records and/or beer at the cantina that indirectly finances us all as side dudes) don't care that I can play a Bm9 in tune.... Just as I go to the movies but I never stop to think about the lighting or cinematography...

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 8 Jan 2003 8:42 am

Leslie, notwithstanding the obvious visual diversions on Hee Haw, perhaps the best reason to watch it was to see and hear the great Curly Chalker, who was the house steel player and was reasonably visible!