Supro 6-String

Howard Kalish · Post by **Howard Kalish** » 19 Apr 2005 7:48 am

I have a Supro 6-sting lap steel that I found at a garage sale about 20 years ago for $20. I don't play steel, but I thought I'd give it a try with this Supro. It used to work okay, but now the pickup isn't working (it crackled a few times and then died). When I tried to loosen the strings to take the plate off to check the wiring, the tuners crumbled like a lollypop. All the tuners are brittle and need to be replaced.

My questions for you experts are - Should I fix up this guitar? Is it worth anything? Would I ruin it's value by putting new tuners on it? Are Supros any good and will it be worth the effort to fix it up or should I just bite the bullet and get a new 8-string from one of the current builders?

It looks cool. The "finish" is a formica-like appliqué and the felt on the bottom is like new. The fret board is a decal with indian looking symbols for the fret markings.

Thanks for your assistance,
Howard K

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Apr 2005 7:58 am

In its present condition it doesn't have any value at all, so I'd say go ahead and fix it. New tuner buttons doesn't cost much and the dead output is probably just a quick soldering job.

The Supros, and other lap steels with the string-through pickup, can be great blues/rock lap steels if that's what you're into.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 19 Apr 2005 7:59 am

You already play the fiddle Howard.

You want another fretless instrument?

What are you, a glutton for punishment?

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
Board of Directors Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association

Howard Kalish · Post by **Howard Kalish** » 19 Apr 2005 8:14 am

Thanks Steinar - I'm actually more into Western Swing and I was planning to put a C6 tuning on it. I just want to see if I can make any music with it and then move up to an 8-string.

If I want to do a blues/rock thing, which would be fun, what tuning would you recommend and what string gauges?

Gerald - Maybe I'll skip the steel and go for the trombone or washtub bass.
Seriously, I'm hoping that my ear will help me play the thing in tune once I get it working.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 19 Apr 2005 8:29 am

Howard,- personally I prefer open-D for blues (and mostly everything else I play). One reason I choose D instead of E is that it gives me some interesting options when playing in E (fast hammer on/pull offs between D and E on the 1st string, for example....). Also, songs in the key of F is more common than the key of Eb, so I don't have to deal so much with playing in the awkward 1st fret position when I tune to open-D.
Anyway,- I prefer the 151351 tuning for this kind of material.

I use the Jagwire 'open-E' set (.015 - .056) for my open-D tuned Asher,- works fine since it's a 25" scale steel. For a 22.5" scale Supro it would probably be better to tune those gauges to open-E, or use slightly heavier strings.

Gerald,- frets are boring. Very boring...

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 19 April 2005 at 09:32 AM.]

Dwayne Martineau · Post by **Dwayne Martineau** » 19 Apr 2005 8:55 am

I might have the same Supro. Looks like this... peachy-brown-purplish mother-of-toilet-seat finish...?

"Keoki" Lake told me he also found one at a garage sale for $20. The going rate on eBay and the Forum is around $200.

It's a fun little guitar; sounds good and has a lot of output... like Steinar indicated, it screams when it's a little overdriven.

Mine is in C6 and I mostly play western swing and Hawaiian on it. Sounds fine for both. Ample string spacing, too.

StewMac has the tuner knobs you need. They're CHEAP and easy to replace...
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Tuner_parts/1/Vintage-style_Replacement_Tuner_Knobs/Instructions/I-4004.html

...all you need is a soldering iron.

Replacing the tuner knobs will not depreciate its value.

Sounds like the pickup just needs to be soldered as well. You could probably fix up the whole thing in an hour.

...and then buy an 8-string, too. It's a slippery slope, these steels.

Dwayne Martineau · Post by **Dwayne Martineau** » 19 Apr 2005 9:00 am

A search for "c6 gauge" gives a pantsload of hits. Here's what Bobby Lee recommended for C6 gauges in 1999...

<pre>
E .014
C .017 plain
A .022 wound
G .024
E .030
C .034
</pre>

And most 8-string C6 instruction can be played on this 6-string tuning.

Paul Arntson · Post by **Paul Arntson** » 19 Apr 2005 10:16 am

Hi Howard!
I have the exact one that Dwayne has and it's a riot!
I have a good hefty set of Open E strings on it and it sings real purty. I agree with everybody that it is a great guitar for rock n blues.
Oh, and I paid $250 for mine at Guitar Center. Can you believe it? I had one 30 years ago and I always wanted another.
True to the stereotype, they tried to charge me another $80 for the cardboard case...

(edited for spelling)[This message was edited by Paul Arntson on 19 April 2005 at 11:17 AM.][This message was edited by Paul Arntson on 19 April 2005 at 11:19 AM.]

Howard Kalish · Post by **Howard Kalish** » 19 Apr 2005 10:59 am

Dwayne - Man, thanks. That's just what I need to know to get going. I feel enthused now that I know it can be a real instrument and is worth the effort to restore. I hadn't thought about just replacing the tuner knobs rather than the whole tuner. That should be an interesting project.

Paul - Mine looks a little different than the one Dwayne has pictured. I'm at work and can't take a look, but it seems that the body style on mine is simpler. But I'm going to fix it up and see if I can make some music on it.

Thanks to everyone. This forum is terrific.
HK

Tom Baylis · Post by **Tom Baylis** » 19 Apr 2005 1:59 pm

Howard, as a new steeler and Supro owner ('57 Comet) the only thing I would add is that if you find the process of replacing those tuner knobs to be intimidating, you can also find replacement tuners that should slip right in to the post holes, right down to the same mounting holes for the screws. It'll cost you quite a bit more, but for approx. $60 max (or less, depending on what style you have)you can get replacements for the original Klusons etc. For historic (and potential resale) purposes, I suggest keeping the old ones...

The old Supros are fine steels imo, and they're increasing in value all the time. Best of all, those pickups are amazing, great output and rich overtones.

Overall, I think you'll find that you'll be hooked in short order. It didn't take this old fretter long...after acquiring the Supro, I found a '40's Oahu square neck acoustic, and then a '53 Fender D8 Pro (those extra strings are a mind-blower). The world of steel is both humbling and liberating - good luck! You sure found the right place for helpful, friendly advice...this is one fine community!

Tom

Dwayne Martineau · Post by **Dwayne Martineau** » 19 Apr 2005 2:42 pm

Glad I could help... just passing along info that I learned on the Forum.

If you do take the cheap route and just replace the buttons, here's the jist of how to do it:

(1) heat up the metal tuner post with a soldering iron. You need to have some solder on there to transfer the heat or else it takes forever.

(2) while heating the post*, gently pull upward on the knob with some pliers. Eventually, it will just slide right off.

(3) keep the post hot and push the new knob down into place.

If there is some solder left on the post when you're done, don't worry. Once it's cooled, you can just flick it off.

*StewMac has these recommendations...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
If the knob is crumbling, carefully break it off with pliers-— be careful not to bend the knob shaft.

If you wish to save the knobs, you can heat the knob shaft using your soldering iron or gun (pre-heat your soldering iron for 5-10 minutes before using it).

Be careful not to overheat the shaft, to avoid damage to the gearing inside the housing. You can use a large copper alligator clip as a heat sink. Position the clip between the soldering iron's tip and the tuner housing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 19 Apr 2005 6:47 pm

Fix it. THis is only the holy grail of lap steel guitars for blues (IMHO).

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 19 Apr 2005 9:04 pm

That is the same model that both B.E. and I both started on in 1948. I think Buddy's was the gray one and mine was a slightly lighter brown color. Actually, the P/U has individual screw~heighth adjustments on each string for blending string~volumes.

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“Big John” Bechtel
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 20 Apr 2005 1:31 am

I picked up this '54 Supro #X40370 a while back. It's all good except the nut was missing. So I thought I'd get my friendly neighborhood guitar tech to grind up a new bone nut for it.

So what should the nut height be? I'm thinking 3/8" . .

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 20 Apr 2005 2:14 am

Rick my Supro's nut is more like 3/4 ",
what ever you're confortable with will likely work.

I would go for the same height as the bridge myself.

Howard, the Supro is a good steel worth fixing. I had the same problem with the tuners. I threw on new ones, and could care less.
The old ones were dead.

Make this a practical playing unit again..
that's what they were made for.
Mines almost always in C6, but some times Leavit and C#m7 (Sol's tuning).

Go for it have fun.
DD[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 20 April 2005 at 03:16 AM.]

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 20 Apr 2005 4:29 am

I would go for the same height as the bridge myself.

Well, that's what I was thinking - and the bridge is about 3/8" high. I'll just tell him to make it so the strings are parallel to the neck. All this Supro talk makes me wanna rock.

Howard, what year is yours?
You can date it from the serial# here.
Can you post a pic of it?
Or if you email me a pic I'd be happy to post it for you.[This message was edited by Rick Alexander on 20 April 2005 at 05:38 AM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 20 Apr 2005 4:38 am

I too think those old Supros & similar Natl jobbers have a distinct / good Steel tone ...and scream like a bridled banshee when juiced with gain.

Aloha,
DT~

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 20 Apr 2005 4:39 am

Denny, you just reminded me of a girl I used to date a long time ago . .

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 20 Apr 2005 5:12 am

UH-oh Rick. I picked up a Natl jobber like that at a truck stop outside Sandy Eggo about 35 years ago ...and dropped her off at Maitland; Was yerz a red-head named Shaky Puddin?

[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 20 April 2005 at 06:13 AM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 20 Apr 2005 5:13 am

Rick,

Some suggestions for determining the nut height: I think it important for the strings to pass through that pickup's "tunnel" parallel to the pickup top-plate at whatever height the bridge dictates, ...allowing the adjustable pole pieces to be working upon the same string field below the top-plate. Otherwise, if the strings run through the tunnel at an incline, then strings 1,2,3 will be at a different top-plate distance over their pole-pieces than strings 4,5,6. It might not make allot of difference, but intuitively I think it will.

To determine the height needed for the nut; Clean out the nut route channel so it's ready to receive a nut. Put a rubber band or two around the tip of the headstock. Now cut a hank of "kite" string 36" long and tie a ball-end from a guitar string or small washer to one end. Run that end of the "kite" string through the pickup tunnel and string it up in the 3rd string position across the bridge, ...and tie the other end of the string to the rubber band, pulling up enough tension on the rubber band so that it will keep the string straight and taunt across the nut area. Now you can take a popsicle stick or such, to set the string upon directly in front (upscale) of and flush with the front of the nut channel, whittling the stick so that it sets the string's height parallel to the fretboard which should also be parallel thru the pickup tunnel. Now you can measure how far the string is above the bottom of the nut route channel to get the height of the nut blank to be made.

Aloha,
DT~
[This message was edited by Denny Turner on 20 April 2005 at 06:25 AM.]

Howard Kalish · Post by **Howard Kalish** » 20 Apr 2005 5:21 am

Well, I’m definitely going to get this guitar into shape. With endorsements from all of you guys, it’d be a shame to let it keep sitting in the closet.

Mine looks just like the one that Rick posted, though mine is an aquagreen color. My kid has my camera or I’d take a picture. The serial number is X63381, so based on the chart that Rick pointed me to, it’s from 1956 – almost as old as me. The nut seems to be ½” high.

Thanks for all the responses and great info. I’ll let you all know how it turns out. Maybe I'll have my camera back by then and I can post a photo.

HK

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 20 Apr 2005 5:28 am

Howard
I did this on my Supro last Jan, to try out Sol Ho'op'i'i's tuining.
No picks, just me and a lil 50's Fender Tweed Champ.
http://worldserver4.oleane.com/canardplus/Musique/HoopiiDoopii.mp3

There are a lot of great tones available from these lil babies, these are just two.
Like these guys said they can scream like an ex girlfriend.
And purr like your favorite house cat.

Mine is mother of toiletseat white,
so yours must be Mother of Algie green.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 20 April 2005 at 06:29 AM.]

Denny Turner · Post by **Denny Turner** » 20 Apr 2005 5:36 am

Howard,

The aquamarine MOTS color is quite a bit rarer than the more common cream-white, maroon, silver-grey, brown and peach MOTS.

Aloha,
DT~

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 20 Apr 2005 5:55 am

Howard, Aquamarine! You're a fortunate young feller. Good thing we had this conversation huh?

David, that rocks! Amazing the tones you can get out of that little biscuit board . .

Denny, thanks so much for the how-to. Now I'm getting excited. Speaking of which, her name escapes me at the moment - but as I recall she was definitely a redhead!

Howard Kalish · Post by **Howard Kalish** » 20 Apr 2005 6:01 am

David - Yeah man, that sounds great. I think I hear a mandolin in there too. I'm getting fired up now.

Well, as for the color, I'm not the best person to ask 'cause I'm color blind, and I have an especially hard time with greens. Someone told me this guitar is green, but it looks like dark silver to me. I'll ask my wife what color it is tonite. She helps with my sox too.