out of tune

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 22 May 2001 6:43 pm

-I recorded rhythm tracks from BIAB to CD.
-Turned out OK.
-However, when played back on my portable CD player, the music is 1/4 fret out off tune.
-I checked my tuner against the BIAB A440, and it is right on, and my steel is in tune.
-Would it be possible the cd player operates at a different speed than the cd it was recorded on? I know I have problems with cassette recorders running at different speeds.
Joe

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 May 2001 2:54 am

Try playing the CD back on your PC and see what happens. If you have two CD players (the burner and a CD Rom player) try it on both and see if there is any difference. This should tell you which one is the cause.

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 23 May 2001 6:44 am

Thanks Jack.
I'm going to burn a tuning track on the cd. Then I'll compare it with the 3 cd players.
I'll post the results.
Joe

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 23 May 2001 7:37 am

Joe, this surprises me. I'll tell you why. Prior to VCR technology, it was common for record players and tape recorders to vary all over the place from one machine to the other. Plus even a given machine could vary with temperature, age, etc.

But with the advent of the VCR and the stringent requirements of TV set technology, varying speed could not be tolerated. Not only between different machines but even withinin the same VCR.

That is why ALL VCR"S recorded a "control" track signal during the recording process that is used during playback to speed up or slow down ANY VCR during play back. This is necessary so as to be comaptible with ANY TV. Otherwise the Picture could not be synchronized when in the play mode.

I do not know the technology of a CD recorder/player but I assumed it did the same thing, since reading "0's" and "1's" timing could be critical during playback.

Your experience is indeed interesting to me. Do let us know what you find.

God bless you in your quest,

carl

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 23 May 2001 8:32 am

Carl, we'll wait and see how Joe makes out.

But, in commerical radio some stations play songs (CD's) slightly faster than the original recording. You can really notice it if you try to play along with songs on the radio. I've noticed some FM stations will have, apparently, one CD player that is slightly fast and another that is on speed, the slightly faster playback leaves them more time for commercials and still get in X number of songs per hour.

I suspect there is still an internal "speed" adjustment in commercial CD players. Another option is one of the CD drives could have developed a hardware problem.

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 23 May 2001 9:14 am

On my old computer, I had version 7 of BIAB and it was out of pitch. I call PG music and asked what to do about this and they said to just tune up with it. I didn't explain to them that I played steel and this wasn't easy to do. On my new computer I have now upgraded to version 9 and it is in tune. I don't know if it was the earlier version or my computer which caused the problem, but at any rate version 9 of BIAB is supposed to be tunable. I haven't tried it because I didn't need to, but it is supposed to be there. I suspect the problem was the sound card in my other computer. Also the problem is probably the difference of using a different CD player and burner. I had problems when I did it this way.

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 23 May 2001 1:05 pm

I do video for a hobby and if the VCRs weren't in sync it would be a disaster.
I'm using my small portable cd player with batteries. I'll try it with the power supply
before I burn the tuning track.
V10 of biab is right on A440.

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 24 May 2001 1:11 pm

OK! No difference with a power supply. Still out of tune.
However, when I click on (GM/master Tuning) "restore to A440" in the Tune Up window, it emits an A440 tone and brings the needle on my tuner to 440 dead center.
But, when I click on "Sound note A", it is 10 cents lower than 440. I tuned the card until this tone hit 440 on the tuner.
Now I will burn the same sound tracks to cd and see what happens.
Joe

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 25 May 2001 3:19 pm

And it's still out of tune.
Back to the Kareoke machine where I can tune it to my steel. The cd playback machine takes up less room.
Can anyone tell me if the cd on a kareoke machine has a pitch control?
Joe

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 26 May 2001 11:58 am

I have a CD player that occasionally slightly alters the pitch of the song. It is most annoying, and I don't have a clue what causes it.

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 26 May 2001 12:17 pm

Some Professional CD players do have a speed control.
However, changing the speed on a digital recording is a very different situation than changing an analog player. Unless you have something designed to do it, you get a mess of buzzes, pops, and clicks. Generally if a digital machine is made to change speed, it also has some pitch correction circuitry built in to it.
With a CD player slightly out of pitch, the problem is probably in the time base reference.(just a guess)
Jack put his finger on something that is widely done in broadcasting and that is time compression. There are devices which will speed up both picture and sound in order to squeeze some extra commercial time in a syndicated program. These machines also provide pitch correction for the audio.
The way to tell if it is in use is to look at a rapid movement of something like an arm swinging or a car in motion. If you can see a little bit of abruptness in what should be a smooth movement, then time compression is being used.
Blake

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 1 Jun 2001 1:47 pm

Jack
Is it possible for an electronic tuner to drift off 440?
Joe