I have a house that was built in the 1920's and has the original 2 prong outlets. Even though some of them are 3 prong, the grounds are not hooked up.
Has anyone had any experience or problems with running a computer using these types of facilities? What do I need to be aware of here?
Old house, 2 prong vs. 3 prong
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ajm
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Bill Crook
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I would'nt think of haveing a computer with out 3-wire outlets.
The chances of doing damage to your computer and other devices( cameras, printers,scanners,monitor,etc,etc) is far too great.
Please have a electrical outfit to come in and run you a "dedicated" electric plug (consisting of the 3-wire grounded type)for your computer equipment.
Even tho this may be a bit costly,($150.00 or better) it will not be near as pricy as haveing to replace the total computer AND other perifials(sp) several times maby in a years time, The Ins companys will NOT cover your equipment if you have inadquate wireing problems in your house <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 06 April 2001 at 10:12 PM.]</p></FONT>
The chances of doing damage to your computer and other devices( cameras, printers,scanners,monitor,etc,etc) is far too great.
Please have a electrical outfit to come in and run you a "dedicated" electric plug (consisting of the 3-wire grounded type)for your computer equipment.
Even tho this may be a bit costly,($150.00 or better) it will not be near as pricy as haveing to replace the total computer AND other perifials(sp) several times maby in a years time, The Ins companys will NOT cover your equipment if you have inadquate wireing problems in your house <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 06 April 2001 at 10:12 PM.]</p></FONT>
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Jack Stoner
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You need a good surge suppressor (not a cheap $19.95 unit) and it won't work with just two wires. Also many of the old two wire installation have the hot and neutral wires reversed. That may not appear to be a problem but it can be.
You need the third wire (ground) - really on all the outlets but especially on the one(s) for the computer system and in the kitchen and bathroom. If it has never been rewired then the wiring when it was built is way inadequate for modern electrical usage and is an accident waiting to happen. I know rewiring is $$$ but if you own the home that should be the first improvement done. I'm surprised you can get insurance with that old a wiring system.
You need the third wire (ground) - really on all the outlets but especially on the one(s) for the computer system and in the kitchen and bathroom. If it has never been rewired then the wiring when it was built is way inadequate for modern electrical usage and is an accident waiting to happen. I know rewiring is $$$ but if you own the home that should be the first improvement done. I'm surprised you can get insurance with that old a wiring system.
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ajm
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I'll add a little bit of info here. I'm not trying to be a wise guy, just trying to get an answer to my question.
The service is breakers (not fuses) and the wires appear to be at least 15 amp capable. All of the breakers (recently done) in the house are 15 amp and were chosen to be that value because of the age of the house. There are not that many items in the place, and I have mapped out the circuits in the house and the load is fairly evenly distributed. The main item in the house is a refrigerator, and it is not on the same circuit as the computer. I also have had a microwave oven for 10 years and have not wiped it, or anything else, out yet.
Insurance companies out here seem to base their rates on the age of the house and several other criteria. In my experience they almost never actually come out to see if the place even exists, and will insure you over the phone. So even though you may pay a little more, getting insurance is not a problem.
Granted, a surge protector/power director is a must for a computer. At the very least, it's cheap insurance.
The question was "Have you had any experience...", not "Is this the ideal situation". I'll grant you that this 2 wire set up is far from the ideal situation. I'm looking to see if anyone has had any problems actually using 2 conductor circuitry.
Also, why won't the surge suppressor work without a ground wire? Some models may be different, but don't most of them have an MOV or similar device between hot and neutral? (As a side note, I believe that Boogie amps use this feature.)
I was at another house this weekend and an electrician was checking it out. There were no GFI circuits, and only the outlets in the kitchen were grounded. However, all of the outlets in the house were the 3 prong type. The house was built in 1950. The electrician stated that there are tons of houses all over the country that don't have grounds for one reason or another. One of the main reasons may be that people come along and replace broken or painted over outlets all the time, and happen to pick the modern (and probably more readily available) 3 prong type.
He also brought up another interesting point: unless you actually check the outlets (or did them yourself) you really don't know if they're grounded or not. A lot of people merely assume that they're OK.
So.....
Has anyone had any experience or problems with running a computer using these types of facilities? What do I need to be aware of here?
The service is breakers (not fuses) and the wires appear to be at least 15 amp capable. All of the breakers (recently done) in the house are 15 amp and were chosen to be that value because of the age of the house. There are not that many items in the place, and I have mapped out the circuits in the house and the load is fairly evenly distributed. The main item in the house is a refrigerator, and it is not on the same circuit as the computer. I also have had a microwave oven for 10 years and have not wiped it, or anything else, out yet.
Insurance companies out here seem to base their rates on the age of the house and several other criteria. In my experience they almost never actually come out to see if the place even exists, and will insure you over the phone. So even though you may pay a little more, getting insurance is not a problem.
Granted, a surge protector/power director is a must for a computer. At the very least, it's cheap insurance.
The question was "Have you had any experience...", not "Is this the ideal situation". I'll grant you that this 2 wire set up is far from the ideal situation. I'm looking to see if anyone has had any problems actually using 2 conductor circuitry.
Also, why won't the surge suppressor work without a ground wire? Some models may be different, but don't most of them have an MOV or similar device between hot and neutral? (As a side note, I believe that Boogie amps use this feature.)
I was at another house this weekend and an electrician was checking it out. There were no GFI circuits, and only the outlets in the kitchen were grounded. However, all of the outlets in the house were the 3 prong type. The house was built in 1950. The electrician stated that there are tons of houses all over the country that don't have grounds for one reason or another. One of the main reasons may be that people come along and replace broken or painted over outlets all the time, and happen to pick the modern (and probably more readily available) 3 prong type.
He also brought up another interesting point: unless you actually check the outlets (or did them yourself) you really don't know if they're grounded or not. A lot of people merely assume that they're OK.
So.....
Has anyone had any experience or problems with running a computer using these types of facilities? What do I need to be aware of here?
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Jack Stoner
- Posts: 22136
- Joined: 3 Dec 1999 1:01 am
- Location: Kansas City, MO
A surge protector, or similar device needs the ground to work. The MOV capacitors are connected between the hot and ground. No ground wire and it's like they are not even there.
At the minimum, wire in a ground wire to the receptable you want to run the PC on.
It's nice that a circuit breaker panel has been wired in, but I'd still be concerned with the old wiring. A lot of the old electrical wire used paper and cloth (cotton) for insulation. That has to be deteriorated after this length of time and a lot of it was separate wires, not two wires in one sheath as the current electrical wire is.
I'm not sure when the code required grounded receptacles but the house I had in Kansas City was built in 1955 and it too had a fuse panel and all non grounded receptacles. One of the guys that worked for me was a licensed electrician and we rewired all of the receptacles and most of the light circuits and put in a 150 amp service circuit breaker panel.
At the minimum, wire in a ground wire to the receptable you want to run the PC on.
It's nice that a circuit breaker panel has been wired in, but I'd still be concerned with the old wiring. A lot of the old electrical wire used paper and cloth (cotton) for insulation. That has to be deteriorated after this length of time and a lot of it was separate wires, not two wires in one sheath as the current electrical wire is.
I'm not sure when the code required grounded receptacles but the house I had in Kansas City was built in 1955 and it too had a fuse panel and all non grounded receptacles. One of the guys that worked for me was a licensed electrician and we rewired all of the receptacles and most of the light circuits and put in a 150 amp service circuit breaker panel.
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Bill Crook
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- Location: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance
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AJM...
Please note:
That just because your house has circuit breakers, that dosen't mean that it's even marginal ready for computer use !!
One of the biggest problems with NOT using 3 wire plugs and surge -protection is that your neighbor could inadvertnally destroy your computer system. Go outside and look at the pole/transformer,I bet it supplies not only your house but maby even a couple of your neighbors houses. Now because all of you are on the same transformer, a Motor(as in the frig,Air conditioner,Stove,even Hot water heater) can and often do produce many thousands of votes Back EMF when they turn off. This back EMF is also seen by your computer (and other househole equipment) because your both are on the same transformer. A lot of times what we often think of as just old stuff breakin down is the results of this EMF problem. While the 3 prong plug system cain't prevent problems every occasion,It does go a long way to protect your house,computers,appliences,even lives.
I strongly suggest 3-wire up-grades,the cost isn't nearly as dear as it could be.
Please note:
That just because your house has circuit breakers, that dosen't mean that it's even marginal ready for computer use !!
One of the biggest problems with NOT using 3 wire plugs and surge -protection is that your neighbor could inadvertnally destroy your computer system. Go outside and look at the pole/transformer,I bet it supplies not only your house but maby even a couple of your neighbors houses. Now because all of you are on the same transformer, a Motor(as in the frig,Air conditioner,Stove,even Hot water heater) can and often do produce many thousands of votes Back EMF when they turn off. This back EMF is also seen by your computer (and other househole equipment) because your both are on the same transformer. A lot of times what we often think of as just old stuff breakin down is the results of this EMF problem. While the 3 prong plug system cain't prevent problems every occasion,It does go a long way to protect your house,computers,appliences,even lives.
I strongly suggest 3-wire up-grades,the cost isn't nearly as dear as it could be.