2 PC's/ 1 Monitor

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Feb 2001 4:44 am

Hi everyone,
Well, I've finally thrown in the towel
with Hewlitt-Packard and their totally
inept phone support.
They cannot figure out how to get my Pavilion pc w/WindowsME to recognize my HP
4100C scanner. I've spent many hours and $ on the phone with these birds. They have sent me 2 "upgrade" CD's. I have downloaded the so-called appropriate driver from their website a good 1/2 dozen times. And all I get for this is an OS error flag.
So, to the point. I still have my old Gateway pc with WIN98 and the scanner worked just fine with it.

Is it possible to run both pc's and use only 1 monitor? I'm really fed up with buying any additional pc stuff if I can help it. I've got more things for pc's sitting around because they won't work. Nothing wrong with them, they just don't work on my systems.

Is there like a "Y" splitter for the pc to
monitor cable? Will ME conflict with 98?

Thanks in advance everyone.
chipsahoy

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 19 Feb 2001 5:23 am

There are commercial keyboard/monitor switches made to control a bank of PC's with one keyboard/monitor/mouse, such as the units from Raritan. But they are high end commercial units. Look around you may be able to find a smaller (cheaper) switch.

The cheaper way may be to buy a new scanner, but there's no guarantee it will work either. My suggestion is to find a "real" computer tech than can get the 4100c installed and operational, but finding a competent tech is the key. I don't want to knock any techs but as a general rule the ones that work in places like CompUSA, Circuit City etc are not what I would call a "real tech". You need to find someone that is more than just a board swapper that can really troubleshoot and solve problems.

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 19 Feb 2001 9:22 am

Chip -- Yes, you certainly should be able to connect 2 computers to a single monitor with some sort of switch or other connection swapping arrangement. You just wouldn't be able to run both machines at the same time.
An A/B switch could be made by modifying a relatively inexpensive printer switch - I don't know of readily available monitor switches. But that would really be a poor band-aid solution rather than getting what appears to be a good set of equipment correctly integrated.

I've hesitated to shove my nose into your system(s) again because, in the past, my 'help' seemed not to be. Your problems/needs were always a step ahead of us.

I wonder what it would cost to ship the computer, scanner, and any other software or hardware you want set up to me??? (No need to send monitor, keyboard, etc. with which you have no difficulty.) Probably cheaper than another scanner or, maybe, even a decent A/B setup.

While I don't consider myself an 'expert' the likes of Msrs. Stoner, Pennybaker, Smith and others on the forum, I do manage to do what is required most of the time. -- Everett
[This message was edited by Everett Cox on 19 February 2001 at 09:28 AM.]

Jeff Agnew · Post by **Jeff Agnew** » 19 Feb 2001 2:07 pm

Chip,

You simply need a data switch with VGA (15-pin) female jacks. If you're on a Mac, use DB15s. These are available from most CompUSA, Fry's, or similar well-stocked computer stores. You can also find them online at places like PC Connection, PC Zone, PC Warehouse, etc. Should run $15-50 depending on the number of inputs and the switch quality.

You may also need an extra cable, depending on what you have lying around.

These simple data switches have a rotary dial on the front to select which monitor you wish to view.

Here are some examples I pulled quickly from the web: Something like <a target=_top href="http://www.abra-electronics.com/catalog ... _614d.html" >this</a> or <a target=_top href="http://www.mccaltek.com/switchboxes.html" >this</a>.

Regards,
Jeff[This message was edited by Jeff Agnew on 19 February 2001 at 02:09 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 19 Feb 2001 4:23 pm

Thank you,
Jack, Everett, and Jeff. All your fine points were well taken.
Everett, you said something that bothers me about this, and that is "You can't run both pc's at the same time". This is what I had in mind. To use the scanner on the Gateway,
where it runs right, and transfer data to the
Pavilion.

Is this what they call true networking? Or do
all pc's have to be the 'same'?

I'd like to be able to do a scan on the Gateway, and then move that data over to the Pavilion.

Can this be easily done?
Can an old TV be used as a sort of monitor?

Jeff, could you explain more about the data switches? You mentioned switching between
monitors, but I'm looking to switch between pcs.

Jack, buying another scanner crossed my mind,
but after giving it some thought, I've decided...why should I go and spend another $300-400 for, yet, another pc accessory.As we you well know, good friend, I am sitting right now on a useless:
Voodoo graphics card - $30-$50
SoundBlasterMP3+ card - $100
HP scanner 4100C - $250

Hey, I've had it. I'm all done. One of those idiots at HP Support had the nerve to tell me if the 'scanner' department can't fix it,
well, "The scanner is 2 years old"..[ie.]time for a new one. PLEASE. Get a grip, Jackson.

I mean,a friggin' cheap $10 Hamilton-Standard
Toaster could outlast this scanner; which by the way, probabaly has no more than 20 hours of time on it. I kid you not. I've hardly used this. But it sure comes in handy at times.
I got my first pc in August 98'. It was fun at first. Games, email, instant messenger etc. But as soon as you start to grow into it and sort of find out what it can do.....
well here is where all the trouble begins. Oh yeah, they're just terrific, if you just basically do nothing with them. AMEN

chipsahoy

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 19 February 2001 at 04:26 PM.]

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 19 Feb 2001 7:24 pm

Hey Chip, 'ole buddy, RELAX!!! It's difficult to work with this stuff 'by remote' because both ends (people) must use and understand termonology the same way. And event/problem descriptions must be complete and accurate -- otherwise frustrating confusion is all we get.

I went back over some of your previous posts and it seems you've got decent stuff - it should work!!!

I should have been more precise and said that only 1 of the PC's could DISPLAY on a common monitor at any given time. The devices suggested above probably could be made to work. That is NOT the approach I recommend. Let's get your stuff properly configured. I'll email you. Be prepared to tell me EXACTLY what the conflict message is and be ready to go into DeviceManager and give me info. Later, buddie -- Everett

George Rozak · Post by **George Rozak** » 19 Feb 2001 9:41 pm

Chip,

I've used Keyboard/Video/Mouse switches for years. I'm currently using a Protec Bytelan switch & it works great. I can use the same monitor, etc. with up to 4 computers.

One word of caution if you decide to go this route though. Make sure you get an electronic switch that supports a resolution at least as high as what you're using. Definitely stay away from the manual type switches. They really degrade the quality of your video.

George

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 19 Feb 2001 11:21 pm

Chip..

Please do yourself a favor, forget about this plan to run 2 computers into a singluar monitor. Most A/B switches and passive switches use a "Make before break" connection. This will prove deadly for one computer or the other and even perhaps the monitor too. The "Active" type switches that would work the way you need will cost more that you could purchase another 17" monitor for.

Unfortunatly HP computers use a priority BIOS and chipset in them and you canot just start tagging things out on the end of them.(This includes even their own stuff) HP machines (IMHO) are the hardest machines to set up I have ever dealth with. Your Gateway is a lot more forgivin' about perhperials that HP systems.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Feb 2001 4:04 am

I've used Raritan switches with banks of Token Ring LAN Bridge PC's without problems (both PS/2 and ISA PC's)- I had over 200 rack mounted bridge PC's. I also had some PS/2's running OS/2 LAN Network Manager and the Raritan's worked fine on those. The "high end" units provide the necessary logic to the PC so it will "see" a keyboard when booting and switching keyboards/monitors is not a problem.

If just switching a monitor, only, it is not as critical as switching a keyboard (some PC's will blow the keyboard I/O chip if a keyboard is unplugged or plugged in with the PC powered on). Switching a monitor shouldn't be any more "dangerous" than a serial or parallel port switch. Before we got the Raritan switches we kept keyboards connected to the PC's but had a monitor on a roll around cart that we would connect to the PC's (with the OS running) when we needed to check status on one.

But I still go back to Chip's problem of getting the HP 4100C scanner to work with his PC. I've worked with Chip off line on this and I'm convinced that the right PC tech can get it integrated and running on his HP PC.

Tom Diemer · Post by **Tom Diemer** » 20 Feb 2001 4:49 am

Jack,

Have you checked the port settings in the bios?

Usually see this when the port is set to SPP, or EPP. Being as the scanner works on the other PC, it about has to be either an incompatible driver for ME (which he said he downloaded), or the PP settings in the bios are wrong.

Normally, this port setting problem won't show as a device conflict in Windows. It just wont work. The software will 'hang' when you try to access the scanner, due to lack of the proper resources (interupt or DMA channel) for the scanner to use.

I'm thinking a good place to start is to check the port settings in the Gateway, and see if the new HP matches. Some of the 'defaults' on new PC's are outrageously wrong.

Is there a printer on the same PP? if so, what happens if that is removed and the driver unloaded? Does the scanner work then with the new driver? (this would confirm the port setting problem)

Just a thought Jack, not trying to horn in.

Tom

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Feb 2001 5:17 am

Tom, it's a USB port scanner. His HP PC came with Windows ME. The scanner s/w that was supplied with the HP 4100c is not Windows ME compatible but HP has a patch to update the drivers. However HP says the scanner softwarepatch is not compatible with ME if it is an initial load (doesn't make sense).

I have the same scanner and the upgrade version of Windows ME on my Compaq. When I tried to install the scanner I got the incompatibility error message but the thing is to go ahead and install the software anyway and then go back and install the patch. Worked fine on my PC.

I had Chip do the same thing on his and he still had a problem. He got another installation CD from HP that was supposed to be for Windows ME but he still has a problem. I do computer consulting and installations on the side (I ran a help desk before I retired) and have had several cases of something not installing properly but usually it can be worked around and still installed e.g. I had problems installing a HP 1100 laser printer on a new HP PC with the HP "auto install" procedure but I was able to manually get it installed properly.

Chip has spent a lot of time on the phone with HP PC support but HP's support is like a lot of vendors - poor.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 20 Feb 2001 5:55 am

This is getting deep, now. There is also an
HP Officejet 600 all-in-one printer/scanner/fax unit hooked up as well.

Another warning flag that used to pop up said: Your pc cannot locate scanner and this may be caused by another application. Wait for this application to finish or disable it and then try the scanner again.

I believe I did uninstall the HP600 at one point and tried to reinstall the 4100c, but then again, I'm not sure if this was before or after I found out about needed update drivers. Anyway, it did not take.

Everyone has been real helpful here, but I'm getting a little confused at the moment in deciding just which way to go.

If I were to go and get another monitor, say,
could I then patch the Gateway into the Pavilion so as to transfer data? Isn't the
oversized telephone jack [now being used by
my cable provider] supposed to allow you to connect another pc? Maybe I got this wrong.

Ev, thanks for the feedback; and I welcome it anytime.
Jack, yeah, I suppose I could keep bugging HP
support. The calls on their end right now are
free until Nov 10, but for my end I still have to pay for the calls. I actually have to call them on the PAVILION support number
and then when that tech realizes, or thinks he realizes, that the problem is a 'scanner
issue', then he will connect me to 'scanning'. If I call 'scanning' directly, it's $2.50/min, up to $25.00 + my long distance fee.

Bill, you are right-on about HP pcs being a pain in the butt. It won't take Soundblaster
or Voodoo.....at least not EASILY.

Tom, thanks for the info on the BIOS.

George, thanks for your input on the Protec
switches.

Although this HP pc has a lot more balls than the Gateway [and the Gateway was really starting to slow down with too much stuff on it], I now don't feel so good about it. I
have had nothing but grief in trying to install other manufacturers' software/hardware.
About the only thing that took OK, was an additional 64RAM.

Even with an HP Tech on the phone, leading the charge to install these things....they all failed.

Sorry this got lengthy.
chipsahoy

Jeff Agnew · Post by **Jeff Agnew** » 20 Feb 2001 4:08 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Jeff, could you explain more about the data switches? You mentioned switching between monitors, but I'm looking to switch between pcs.<snip>

Is it possible to run both pc's and use only 1 monitor?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, based on the title of this thread I must have misunderstood. I thought you wanted to run two PCs independently using one monitor. Doing so would require the A/B switch I mentioned. It's quite simple and involves no risk to either PC. I'm working on a similar setup as I type this.

Sharing a single keyboard, mouse, and monitor between two PCs requires the more sophisticated switches others have mentioned. Expect to spend $200-400 or more depending on the number of inputs. I've used these in server rooms in the past and I don't find them cost-effective for home use, particularly for only two boxes.

I don't blame you for being confused. Some of the solutions proposed here, while valid, seem overkill to me - involving major configuration manipulation of your primary machines to accomodate a peripheral. I recommend looking for the simplest solution to solve a given problem. So...

You want to do two things as I understand it:
1) Share one monitor between two PCs
2) Transfer files between the PCs

To do that, I'd add the switch I described previously. Then, I'd put an Ethernet card in each box, buy a decent quality unmanaged hub for $50-75, and run TCP/IP between them. There are some gotchas to configuring the PCs (you already have them configured to use TCP/IP if you're on the net, you just need to add a few things) but it's quite simple and help is readily available on the Web from numerous sources.

Sounds like a royal pain, huh?

It's a shame Bill doesn't make an OS that's stable enough to accept myriad configuration changes but that's reality. Rather than juggle the pieces to make everything fit one machine I'd break things into smaller chunks and devote each piece to the job it does best.

Isn't it a shame you have to go through all this to do something as seemingly simple as add a scanner to your PC?

Regards,
Jeff

PS - Imagine your problem multiplied times 1,000 users in a single location and you begin to see why Network/Sys Admins in large companies receive extraordinary sums of money.

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 20 Feb 2001 6:14 pm

Chip -- Jeff is quite correct in his post above. However, that is still a band-aid rather than solution. For some of us, getting the right cards and setting up communications is, itself, a daunting task.

If we must settle for a band-aid, consider a cheap one. Leave the scanner and directly related software on the Gateway. Do your scans and use the software to edit and combine them as needed. Once you're satisfied with the results, transfer to the Pavilion using DCC (Direct Cable Connection).

That is an integral part of the Windows system 'though you may not have it installed. It is not as clean or fast as Jeff's comm cards but is free and available.
(You might need a special cable -around $15.)

-- Everett