small amp for acoustic gigs

Joe Lipman · Post by **Joe Lipman** » 10 May 2006 2:28 pm

I currently have Nashville 112 that I love, but would like to find something smaller and lighter for playing with acoustic musicians.

I've tried a Roland micro cube and a Vox Valtronix. Both broke up very quickly and were unusable.

Does such an amp exist?

Thanks

Joe

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 May 2006 2:40 pm

FWIW, I played through a Fender Blues Jr. at a friends house last week. I thought it sounded real good for steel at low volume. It has a "Fat" button in the tone section that added a nice tone to it for steel.
1-12", 15W tube.[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 10 May 2006 at 03:41 PM.]

Larry Robinson · Post by **Larry Robinson** » 10 May 2006 2:44 pm

Have you tried the Roland AC-60? This is a fine sounding acoustic amp. I have owned one and traded around to get an Evans AE100. It's a stereo amp with 2-30W amplifiers and 2 speakers. Has effects on board. Check it out. Good for playing with other acoustic players.
Larry Robinson

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 10 May 2006 2:49 pm

Maybe consider going direct to the PA, and bring your own monitor? I have a "pig nose" and 6 string magnatone lap steel I keep for truly un-amped events (great for train travel as well.... battery powered or AC).

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Joe Lipman · Post by **Joe Lipman** » 10 May 2006 2:58 pm

I tried an AC-60 last week and thought it was one of the finest acoustic amps I've ever used. Didn't know if it would work for PSG or not. If it would, that would be great.

Joe

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 10 May 2006 3:24 pm

I have a Crate BXF-15 amp that a buddy gave me to save room on his sailboat that is a pretty good sounding little amp for coffee house, 2 guitars & steel gigs that I do from time to time. It has a bunch of ef-x that you can use, but only one at a time and a decent sounding reverb, headphone jack, just about a 1' square cube in size and about 12lbs and the price was right!!!
JE:-)>

------------------
Emmons D10PP 8/4 -75'
Emmons SD-12PP 3/5
Zum SD-12 5/5 - 91'
76'Session 400
86'Nashville 400
06'Nashville 112

[This message was edited by Jim Eaton on 10 May 2006 at 04:25 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 May 2006 7:19 pm

I have had the same problem for a long time now. I play pedal steel once a month with a country music acoustic jam at the Mermaid Inn, a local musician and music lovers' hangout. I also sometimes play with a group that rehearses with acoustic guitars in someone's living room. I'm in love with tube tone, so I have tried a series of small tube amps. A Peavey Delta Blues (30 watts, 48 lbs., 1x15) was bigger and heavier than I needed and didn't sound good at very low volume. A Music Man 112 RD (100 watts, hybrid, 44 lbs., 1x12) had screechy highs and way more power than I needed. I then got a '50s Silvertone 1433 (about 15 watts, 30 lbs, 1x15). Nice size and weight, but it was either too muddy and distorted, or the highs were piercing - I could never get it dialed in right with its two tone controls.

I then realized that I would never be happy with anything but Fender silverface tone. So I tried a Vibrolux (40 watts, 47 lbs., 2x10) and a Deluxe (20 watts, 40 lbs., 1x12), and a Princeton Reverb II (20 watts, 48 lbs., 1x12). They all sounded great, but were more powerful and heavy than I needed. Finely I got a silverface Princeton Reverb (12 watts, 31 lbs, 1x10). It's almost perfect. It has gorgeous Fender tube tone, all the clean headroom I need, and reverb, the only effect I need. With the 10" speaker the highs are a little too thin for my taste. I will probably put a 12" speaker in it, or may have a custom cabinet built for it to hold a low power 15" speaker. I think this is it for my acoustic jam needs.

Oddly enough, my second choice, if I didn't have the PR would be my battery powered Vox DA5 (solid state, 5 watts, 5 lbs., 1x6.5). It has an amazingly loud clean channel, and even the 3 blues amp simulations, which add about the right amount of simulated tube tone, have a lot of clean headroom. The speaker is very small, but it is a long-throw, closed-back, acoustic-suspension design that has lots of low punch and nice thick highs. It actually would work for the purpose, but it looks like such a toy, I would feel silly, even in an acoustic jam. If I hadn't found the PR, I would have next tried one of the small Vox Valvetronix amps. They seem to have the same great tone as the DA5 (judging by reviews on Harmony Central), and have a real tube that gives some real tube tone. I haven't actually tried one yet, but judging by the DA5, I'm surprised you found a Valvetronix didn't have enough clean headroom. Which model did you try?

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 10 May 2006 at 08:25 PM.]

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 10 May 2006 8:58 pm

IMHO.Fender Blues DeLuxe. These are very good amps for a PSG at low volumes. The problems will show up with big juicy C6 chords, if played too loudly.
I have one, and use it for lap steel, Strat, acoustic guitar, PSG at times.
The are on the used market around $300. Some are tweed and some are black.

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 11 May 2006 6:46 am

I've owned a Rolland AC-60 for a couple of years now and just love it. I don't know about a PSG but my National Dynamic and Ricky T logo come through sounding great. There's lots of room for tone shaping

It also comes with an very well made padded caring case.

David Cook · Post by **David Cook** » 11 May 2006 7:52 am

Hi, I played at a jam last Friday with drums,PA, electric everything. My Roland Cube 30 held up well with my pedal steel. I like its tone better than the 15 watt Fender tube amp. David

Scott Appleton · Post by **Scott Appleton** » 11 May 2006 8:12 am

AD30VT Vox kicks just great for your needs.
Great for my Tele and Mullen 12 string in a
small venue or rehearsal.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 May 2006 8:29 am

For me, it depends on what type of acoustic gig it is. If it's a truly quiet acoustic gig - I'm talking about singer-songwriter with guitar and possibly acoustic bass, with minimal PA and a listening audience - I use a Pod 2 into a Silverface Vibro Champ with an upgraded 8" speaker - bigger magnet, stiffer cone. This speaker may seem too small - I can get away with it because I thin the bass out a bit to fit this type of ensemble sound. The Pod supplies the spring reverb simulation if I need it.

For a bit louder, a have a very inexpensive but good-sounding Peavey Backstage Plus amp with a pretty beefy 10" speaker. Again, I use the Pod as a front-end. This works with a louder club crowd and stage volume, but still all-acoustic instruments and no drums. The amp is mostly a monitor and the Pod line out goes to the front-of-house. I also like a Princeton no-reverb model, which has a lower gain and cleaner tone than the Princeton Reverb, but they're not exactly cheap these days. I've used Princeton Reverbs also - I found I prefer to use a bit lower-gain preamp tube like a 12AY7 or 5751. The other downside is that they are pretty expensive - I can get a SF Deluxe Reverb for nearly the same price.

For louder acoustic instruments like horns or any drums - even a minimal snare/hat configuration - I use either my Deluxe Reverb with an EV SRO 12" speaker, or Pod into a 50-watt solid-state Ampeg BA-112 bass amp. I use a 5751 tube in the first preamp stage of the Deluxe.

What I like about the Pod in this setting is the ability to scale the volume and presence up and down to fit without completely changing my tone. The one cardinal sin for any electric instrument in a folk-acoustic setting is to be too loud, and I'm sometimes surprised just how quiet some of these folks think is "too loud". IMO.

BTW, I have just used the Pod straight into the PA, no backline amp. I prefer to have an amp to monitor, but it is doable if it's a good PA with separate monitor mixes. Forget it if it's a cheap PA with one monitor mix - I haven't met a singer that could tolerate pedal steel in his or her monitor mix - again, IMO.

Alan Rudd · Post by **Alan Rudd** » 11 May 2006 8:42 am

Hartke B300 bass amp. I brought my pedal steel to guitar class at school one day to show the guys and plugged it into the B300 with an RV3 and couldn't believe how good it sounded. I have even wondered about the kickback 12 or 15 as a steel amp since that.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 11 May 2006 10:01 am

I am really impress with the Epiphone Valve Junior just acquired for $99.00.
Erv

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 May 2006 12:29 pm

I think we have to define two different "acoustic" situations here. I understood Joe to be talking about all acoustic, with no PA, no bass, and certainly no drums. That's where my Princeton Reverb has enough clean headroom, even for C6. I like the fact that it has decent reverb, and I dont have to bring along a Pod or any other effects - just the guitar and the small amp. I bought a late '70s silverface with cosmetic flaws that dropped it below the collectors' jacked up prices.

If there is a PA for vocals and miked acoustic guitars, or acoustic electrics, and a bass, for me that is an amplified group. Then I'll bring along a regular steel amp, which for me is a Dual Showman Reverb head with a 15" speaker. A miked Deluxe fixed up to play clean, with an efficient speaker might do. But with a PA, vocalists and guitar players start jockeying for enough volume "to hear themselves." And a bass, even an unmiked acoustic one, swamps my wimpy lows from a small amp. Also, with multiple vocalists and guitars being miked, there is sometimes not a mike or PA channel for me, so I have to be prepared to go with just the amp.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 11 May 2006 3:17 pm

We don't do any accustic gigs, but we do take our duo into some very small rooms where the customers idea of to loud is considerably less than mine, and my Sessions 400 is really big time over kill.

I just aquired a Fender FM65R with a 12" speaker I want to try for these gigs.

It sounds pretty good in our small studio, but I'll know more next week about how good it works in a club.

Now to convince my wife she doesn't need a 400 watt bass rig in these rooms! lol..

Larry

------------------
"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

John Groover McDuffie · Post by **John Groover McDuffie** » 11 May 2006 4:11 pm

Fender Blues Jr or Princeton Reverb. If you don't require built in reverb you could try a Pro Jr. (or tweed Deluxe if you are feeling extravagant)[This message was edited by John Groover McDuffie on 11 May 2006 at 05:15 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 May 2006 6:57 pm

I agree that the type of acoustic gig needs to be clearly defined - that's why I parsed it out the way I did.

The acoustic guys I play with are very sensitive to how loud any electric instrument is onstage - I think they worry about changing the image of the unit as a basically acoustic band. If I brought a Dual Showman Reverb to an amplified but still basically acoustic gig, they wouldn't let me in the door.

Believe it or not, those guys aren't "jockeying for volume" the way a lot of electric bands do - we keep it down, period - or else.

Rick Garrett · Post by **Rick Garrett** » 12 May 2006 2:11 am

I've really enjoyed my 30 watt Genz Benz acoustic amp. I think it's called the Shenandoah. It has some onboard effects and sounds pretty good with lap steel. Not cheap but a nice box.

Rick

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 May 2006 7:17 am

Several people have mentioned using acoustic amps. I don't understand that. Just because you are playing with other acoustic instruments doesn't mean your electric lap or pedal steel needs an acoustic amp. These hi-fi amps with their full spectrum speakers sound completely different from a guitar amp and speaker, unless they have a preset or channel that models a guitar speaker. For most people, electric guitar and steel sounds too thin and bright through full spectrum speaker systems such as PAs and acoustic amps have. A program that models a guitar amp and speaker can take care of that, sort of. But it is much simpler (and cheaper) to just bring a small guitar amp with a guitar speaker. Even then, one of the problems is that the smaller speaker in a small guitar amp will have a different voice, quite apart from the lower volume. I don't usually like the voice of a 10" or smaller speaker for steel, no matter what the volume level. It is not a matter of merely turning down the highs and turning up the lows. No matter how I set the EQ, I can never get good thick highs from 10" speakers. The Vox DA5 and Valvetronix speakers are an exception, in that even though they are small speakers, they are specially designed to sound like larger guitar speakers. To get the big speaker voice at low volume, I will probably put a 12" in my Princeton Reverb, or maybe build a custom cab for a light low volume 15.

Ford Cole · Post by **Ford Cole** » 12 May 2006 7:33 am

There's no substitute for a good set of ears, respect for the other players, and common sense when it comes to balancing with other instruments or vocals in the acoustic or amplified setting, IMHO.[This message was edited by Ford Cole on 12 May 2006 at 08:35 AM.]