Other Fenders besides Twins?

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 15 Feb 2006 9:25 am

I love my '76 Twin, but it is heavy and loud, and half the time I don't need either

One alternative is to split up the amp chassis and speakers into different cabs.

Or get another, smaller amp.

Any Deluxe Reverb users out there?

cheers,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 15 Feb 2006 11:01 am

I play through a Deluxe sometimes. They sound beautiful, but they get furry pretty quick when you turn 'em up...great for steel in a quiet venue, or when you're micing the amp.

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 15 Feb 2006 11:13 am

A Deluxe Reverb that's set up right is great for
rehearsal and smaller gigs. Using 6L6 tubes
(and re-biasing the amp) plus a solid state
rectifier will help add some headroom so they
won't break up so soon. It can easily be
restored to original specs if needed.
Also, avoid using the blue label Fender
speakers (made by Oxford) since they're very
ineffiecient.

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Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 15 Feb 2006 2:21 pm

Yep I have used one in the studio with great results. Great sounding amp at low to moderate volume.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 15 Feb 2006 2:30 pm

Yup - a Deluxe Reverb also. I like either a JBL D-120 or EV SRO speaker (the older style with the white frame and silver/orange label). For a low-volume gig or rehearsal, they're fantastic when set up right. I usually bias the power tubes pretty cold (20-21 ma for 6V6) and use a 12AY7 preamp tube in the preamp's front end to clean it up a bit. I often play around with that front-end preamp tube to see what sounds best. For the Vibrato channel, that is tube 2 from the right, looking from the back of the amp.

I like the sound with a 5AR4/GZ-34 or solid-state rectifier instead of the usual 5U4, but that puts additional plate voltage on the power tubes. That pushes the already overburdened 6V6 tubes even harder. So I agree with using 6L6 in this case. My only worry is with the increased filament current from the 6L6, but I have never had a problem when doing this.

If you don't mind the weight of the Twin but want less juice, try pulling one push-pull pair of power tubes and disconnect one (not both) of the speakers - be sure that you tape off the leads to the speaker you disconnect so you don't short out the output transformer. On a Twin, this is either the inside pair or outside pair of power tubes. Power is cut in half and the speaker load is correct.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 15 Feb 2006 2:37 pm

I'd just be repeating what I've already said a couple of times on this subject so I'll just suggest--do a forum search. This has been covered pretty well on several threads.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 15 Feb 2006 3:12 pm

I recently got hold of a Vibrasonic and although I hate the weight, I really like the tone coming from these tubes. I could be a convert to tubes!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 15 Feb 2006 3:34 pm

Well, I have a silver face Pro Reverb that I put a 4 ohm 15" JBL speaker in. It is a great sounding 60 watt amp, but it weighs over 60 lbs. You might as well have a Twin. It would certainly be good for someone who never needs the extra headroom of a Twin. But if you already have a Twin or Vibrosonic, I would go with something smaller than the Pro for a second amp.

The current thread on the 40 watt Bandmaster Reverb is interesting. The 40 watt Vibrolux is also great. But they are so coveted by six-stringers that their price is very high. Also, I don't care for the 2x10s for steel. If I had one, I think I would get a custom combo cab made for it to hold a 12 or 15. A 40 watt amp has pretty good stage volume for low volume gigs, and can be miked for louder venues.

I've tried friends Deluxes for pedal steel in rehearsals. They just don't have enough stage and rehearsal volume for me, but maybe the right mods would make them usable. Occassionally I play steel in acoustic jams and rehearsals. I'm thinking a Deluxe might be good for that.

What about the current 25 watt Hot Rod Deluxe? Does its clean channel have enough headroom for stage volume and rehearsals? These certainly have some interesting features, such as the low power switch and the drive channel, that would be nice for situations where some blues and rock are played.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 15 Feb 2006 5:13 pm

I used a '64 original Deluxe Blackface for a while on stage with my pedal steel. It sounded really nice but didn't have the headroom that's so necessary to compete with the drummer. These amps are only 22 watts........great for studio (I believe Lloyd Green used one on sessions in the mid-60's) but a headache (or not enough of one

) on the bandstand. There is always the option of carrying a Bandmaster or Bassman head along with a single cabinet or something.

I put up with the weight of my Fender Twin; when I get settled in for the night, it's exactly what I need.

Mike Simpson · Post by **Mike Simpson** » 15 Feb 2006 5:27 pm

For my 6 string guitar (not steel) I use a Suoer Reverb and I have found the best way to overcome the weight of carrying it around is to use a road case with the 3" wheels. I just roll it everywhere I go, I only have to pick it up to put it in and out of the van and on stairs and the handles are lower on the case.

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Big Mike
http://www.blinddogband.com

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 15 Feb 2006 5:37 pm

Another amp to consider is a Music Man 112 RD-50. I have one that I use on smaller gigs, and it's just right. A very light amp with 50 watts of clean power. And it has a nice, vintage look to it as well.
I mention it on this thread only because it's like a 1st cousin to Fender, seeing that Leo Fender owned the company. They go for a pretty fair price on Ebay, when they show up.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 15 Feb 2006 6:19 pm

I picked up a "Fender 75" last weekend for $250. http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/75.html
Mine is the 12" combo.
I'll try it our Fri night "at volume", but around the house, I am liking it so far.
A very tube-ee sound. A hand wired tube amp of the Rivera era (80-82?), I'm told.
I bought it on impulse and am hoping it will be a nice in-between powered amp (in-between a Deluxe and a Vibrosonic).

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 15 February 2006 at 07:51 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 15 Feb 2006 7:40 pm

Chris, that reminds me, I have a Music Man 112 RD that is 100 watts, which I also picked up for a steal. It's about the size and weight of a Vibrolux, but is about as loud as a Twin. With 6L6 power tubes and a solid state preamp, it sounds better than a lot of solid state amps. But to my ears it doesn't quite have that fabulous all-tube Fender tone. The lows are harder and not as lush. The mids are a little harsher. And the highs are too ice pick like, without that sweet sparkle of a Twin. For me it's close, but no cigar.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Feb 2006 5:00 am

You're dead-on, David. Yes, the RD's can't match the sweetness of a Fender. But they're a good light-weight alternative in a pinch, and have a quality all their own. I find a small graphic EQ goes a long way when using mine.

It's like more like a third cousin.....

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 16 Feb 2006 5:59 am

The newer Fender Blues/Hotrod Deluxe amps are nice. 40 watts instead of the 20 watts of a regular Deluxe Reverb, so they are a more usable alternative. To me, the Deluxe Reverb just doesn't have enough power.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 16 Feb 2006 6:11 am

Jon Light's right, I should've done a search.

I too considered a Hot Rod Deluxe, and may still.

Thanks to all who weighed in on this. Lots of good technical info here.

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 16 Feb 2006 6:20 am

DR's are great. In between, two outstanding amps are the Pro Reverb and '64 Vibroverb Custom (with a 15" speaker). Both are 40-50 watts and can be biased and otherwise set up to play very clean or warm with a bit of breakup. I much prefer them to Twins.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 Feb 2006 6:47 am

The hot rod Deluxe might break up too soon for steel. Pretty good guitar amp, with some grit, but I don't think it'd be a great steel amp. The NV 112 is a good alternative, if you'd wanna look into solid state...

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Feb 2006 6:53 am

I found both the Hot Rod and Deville bad for steel. I've used them both as provided backline......not satisfactory, IMO.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 16 Feb 2006 9:34 am

What do you guys think is the fattest, fullest sounding TUBE amp of all time?

FWIW, compared to the line of Peavey solid state amps (with a SGBB in front, of course), most Fenders (Deluxe, Twin, and even the Vibrosonic I have) sound too thin and treble-ee to me... always requiring some whacked out EQ setting with bass on 10, Mid on 0, and treble on 3, or some such (Or a Boss stomp-box EQ in line).

The EQ on the Peaveys seems to lay out logically with the tone I dial in, and never hits the "rails" or needs outboard EQ.

I understand the Fender bragging rights thing, and the "Tube" factor, but while they totally rule for guitar tone, they seem to run out of steam for me in the fat/thick triad tone (chickin' pickin' and pedal mashin' on strings 3,4,5 for example).
Of course they do the Mooney thing all day long!

Also, they are hard to reach a sweet spot at lower volumes.

I keep buyin' & tryin' 'em, though!

This Fender 75 I just got has pull-out "tone boost" knobs, and the pull-out "Bass Boost" (sounds kinda fish-ee!

) was why I bought it (and the do-able price).

It also has a switch to change the output from 75Watts to 15Watts (I have been using it on the 15W setting here at the house).

One thing I haven't really tried yet is going stereo with one tube amp and one solid state.

I think I will go with the Fender 75 and the Peavey Nash 112 Friday night.
This ought to be interesting!

Maybe the Session 400 and Vibrosonic next gig?

Fun Stuff![This message was edited by Pete Burak on 16 February 2006 at 10:21 AM.]

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 16 Feb 2006 10:03 am

I ran my Session 400 and Silverface Twin in stereo at the house yesterday. They blended really well, and the sound had all the nice frequencies present. But when it came down to it, I wouldn't take both to a gig. Either one would be fine on its own.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 16 Feb 2006 10:46 am

Pete,,, NICE score on the 75.. check ebay. you paid HALF the going rate.

BTW, That cabinet WILL handle a 15.. SOME Fender 75's came with them.. I HAD one and NEVER should have sold it..... The Fender tone is NOT for everyone, but for MANY on this forum,, they are life itself.. I can NOT use ANY amp but a Fender.. To the guys that ask about Devilles and other circuit board amp... not for me man,,, they sound sort of generic.. Not as sweet and warm as the original Silverface Fenders... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 16 February 2006 at 10:47 AM.]

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 16 Feb 2006 4:55 pm

I'll echo what Dave and Chris said about the Music Man RD50 112. I love my Twin and it's always my first choice for sheer tone, but recently I've found that this amp really fills the bill nicely for smaller clubs. The sound is very nice and the reverb is the best I've heard. It's like mini-Twin, or half of a Twin, lighter and doesn't take up a lot of room on stage.

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 16 Feb 2006 6:38 pm

One thing I haven't really tried yet is going stereo with one tube amp and one solid state.

It's the best. You get solid state clarity and tube warmth. If you tweak 'em right, they compensate for each other's deficits. I use a Music Man HD130 212 and either a Session 500 or a Fender Steel King.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 17 Feb 2006 8:28 am

I wish my musicman rd210 100 watter sounded good for steel but IMHO it does not. even with a 2x12 cab along with this combo it is as Dave said...brittle highs and flat lows.

My amps are all guitar amps, so I am in the market for a good amp for steel. Looking for something lightweight, all tube, preferably with reverb but I can cope with an extrernal reverb if i have to. I am thinking a head and either a single cab with a 15 or two cabs with 15's. 100 watts. So what would the fender options be in this range? I guess i need to go look up 100 watt fender heads. off I go.