Ceiling fanus interuptus

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 5 Aug 2005 2:12 pm

Just had the electrition install a ceiling fan in my music room. If I run the fan while playing my steel I get a distorted, kind of blatty sound...if I turn off the fan, the sound is normal. I run Sho~Bud to
my Hilton pedal to Fender Steelking. Is it the single coil pickups in the Bud picking up interferance from the fan as I suspect?
The electrition says that thereis nothing wrong with the wireing. Dont have any Hummbuckers to try and see if they do it as well. Any thoughts? Thanks.

------------------
73 PRO II, 79/80 PRO III
Steelkings,Fender guitars,Preston covers,
and Taylor(Tut that is)
Reso's
"Of all the things Ive lost in life, I miss my mind the most"

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 5 Aug 2005 2:23 pm

Don't overlook the very real physical/acoustic effect of the rotating blades. Even without any electrical interference the fan can definitely be a significant sound disruptor.

Bob Tuttle · Post by **Bob Tuttle** » 5 Aug 2005 2:25 pm

That is actually the air from the fan moving the sound waves from the amp, similar to the principle that a Leslie cabinet uses. Probably, if you move the amp farther away from the fan, it won't do that.

Woops!....Jon beat me to the punch.[This message was edited by Bob Tuttle on 05 August 2005 at 03:26 PM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 5 Aug 2005 2:36 pm

I've always wondered how much of this effect to attribute to air movement and how much to the 'moving baffle'---the changing sound reflections off of the moving surfaces of the blades.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 5 Aug 2005 2:49 pm

Jon - I've often wondered the same thing. I tend to think it is the latter.

Lee

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 5 Aug 2005 3:14 pm

It's the fan. Turn it off before you play.

Drew

------------------

Drew Howard - website - Fessenden D-10 8/8, Fessenden SD-12 5/5 (Ext E9), Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 5 Aug 2005 3:16 pm

Jon and Bob,
Thanks for the replies. I tried moveing farther away and it made no difference.Then I placed the amp in the hallway outside of my studio some 20' away from the fan and
still no change with it running. When I turn it off and the blades stop moveing the noise goes away!

anyone else have a guess? Thanks again guys!
PS: Turning off the fan works...but kind of defeats the reason I had it put in, in the first place!...just my luck.

[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 05 August 2005 at 04:19 PM.]

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 5 Aug 2005 3:46 pm

Maybe your amp is plugged into the same circuit as the fan? Is pretty common in older homes for ceiling fixtures and outlets to be on the same circuit. My house was built in 1950 and it's that way. If that circuit is stressed (too many devises) you could be depriving your amp of needed voltage. (I'm not an electrician, others can probably explain better) I've heard amps do really funny things when there's not enough juice flowing. Try an different outlet, on a different circuit (maybe run an extension into another room).

Another question is: is there a dimmer on the fan or light that's on the fan, like a rheostat type dimmer? Those can cause buzzing in amps.

Of course a volt meter would help you troubleshoot this problem. Test your outlets with an without the fan running. But, BE CAREFUL!!!

Good luck, electrical problems can be very frustrating.[This message was edited by Ben Slaughter on 05 August 2005 at 04:50 PM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 5 Aug 2005 3:51 pm

Hey Larry--you can use the fan, no problem. Just when you are not in the room.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Aug 2005 4:27 pm

We have proven that ceiling fans affect your ability to accuratly tune a Steel by ear.

Al Brisco and I experimented with this a few years back.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 5 Aug 2005 4:27 pm

Thanks for all the help guys! I think I tried just about everything...Amp in room, amp out of room, plug in to another circut,
fan on, fan off...volt meter says Im good to go....got a few e-mails from others who have gone through the same dilemma....they solved it just like I just did...sent the wife to Wallmart to buy a cheap 10.00 fan!
Works great...NO PROBLEMS!! Oh well,...Now I have a expensive Ceiling light!

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 5 Aug 2005 9:38 pm

With amp out of the room, the sound that reaches your ears still has to pass thru the turbulant air created by the ceiling fan. We often play at Churches that have ceiling fans going on the stage and I always insist that they be turned off. I would rather play in the heat than have my sound whipped by a fan.
Jerry

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 6 Aug 2005 1:21 am

could very well be that your rig is using the same circuit/line as the Fan
plug yer rig into other circuits & see if there's a dif
(w: an extension cord)[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 06 August 2005 at 02:22 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Aug 2005 4:12 am

ok..I'm gonna say it..

maybe you need a new "FAN"...

Maybe the one you have is not a FAN of Steel Guitar Music ?

We could all use a good Fan now and then...

Wayne Morgan · Post by **Wayne Morgan** » 6 Aug 2005 5:39 am

Hey Larry, the fan has built in resistance that allwos different speeds of the fan,, therefore creating a hum in a lot of electronics, just like a dimmer switch will do. but air circulation is another thing,, you will have to rely on Joey and Al's expierment for that.
But Smiley can walk into a room and it changes the waves of audio,,but thats a hot air cituation.

Wayne

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 6 Aug 2005 5:50 am

[old album cover]
Actually, I think I'll start using one of these in front of my amp to record....

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 6 Aug 2005 7:46 am

My two cents:
It is BOTH a sonic and electrical effect. Some of you may recall that I posted some examples of three tuning methods in the 'Pedal Steel' section of the Forum. Well, old 'eagle ear' Ricky Davis noted an oscillation in the tuning that should have been beatless. Sure enough, I had a ceiling fan running in my studio when I recorded those tracks and Ricky put his finger on the cause of the beats or oscillations.

Now for the clincher: I RECORDED DIRECT TO THE BOARD. There was no amp, no speakers, no 'Leslie' effect from the air moving due to the fan. My only conclusion was that the fan caused an electrical or electromagnetic oscillation that was picked up in the recording.

Live and learn.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 6 Aug 2005 8:17 am

It's the waves the overhead fan creates down towards the vibration of the strings. So in essence; it is interupting the natural vibration of the string when struck; and however the string is amplified; you will hear it.
You can have the ceiling fan on; and at the lowest speed; you might possibly not hear it, but anymore than that>you will.
Ricky

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 6 Aug 2005 8:24 am

I will not remove my beaniecopter while performing, sonic disruptions be damned.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 06 August 2005 at 09:28 AM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 6 Aug 2005 8:30 am

BTW--on obvious test of this ceiling fan is to turn it to high speed, sit and play while someone turns off the fan. It should take a while to come to a stop. If the sonic oscillations correspond to the fan's decreasing RPM with no power applied, well there you go.

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 6 Aug 2005 9:46 am

It's not just ceiling fans. I've got an oscila........ ^H^H^H^H oscela.....^H^H^H^H one of those fans that goes back and forth in my music room. It does the same thing. IMHO, it's a purely acoustic effect, sort'a like an extremely annoying version of a Leslie speaker.

I can't play with any sort of fan in the room. Drives me completely nuts.

Charlie

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 6 Aug 2005 11:15 am

Many light dimmers (and variable speed motor controls) employ phase controlled AC commutation. What that means is, they turn on and off 120 times a second, and only let a portion of the 60 cycle energy thru to the device under control (i.e. lamp or motor). They're supposed to turn on at each zero crossing but the farther along the 60 cycle hump they turn off, the more energy is admitted to the device under control (i.e. the lamp gets brighter), and the greater is the dv/dt at turn off. THEY MAKE A LOT OF EMF NOISE, both conducted and radiated.[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 06 August 2005 at 12:18 PM.]

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 7 Aug 2005 1:50 pm

Being a piano tuner for the last 30+ years, I run into this problem at least once or twice a week while tuning in homes where the ceiling fan is in the room with the piano. When I am doing the coarse tuning (first pass) through the keyboard, I can usually leave fan on so I don't get too hot (this is Houston area), but when I do my fine tuning pass, I turn off the fan to avoid any 'false' beats. For this case it is totally a physical, not electronic problem.

When practicing steel at home in room with a ceiling fan, I always turn it off.

Thanx,
Jim

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 7 Aug 2005 1:57 pm

I stand corrected. Jim and Ricky convinced me.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps