How many use a Fender RI Twin?

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 31 Jul 2005 8:48 am

I had to play an outdoor fair Sat and used a new one. I turned the bass and treble off and the midrange to 10. I added a little treble to about 3 and off I went.

An old time steel friend asked how I could just sit down and use an amp that was part of my regular gear at a big venue.

I know what I want to hear from top to bottom, I am not afraid to turn a knob off to get it. I am willing to accept shortcommings from an amp for just 10 songs, it is not a deal breaker. I liked what I heard, so how many use this amp?

Larry Behm

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 31 Jul 2005 10:54 am

I use it on some gigs, (mainly because of the weight and if I can park next to the stage door) but I also use an extention speaker cab with 2x12's. I set that on the other side of the stage, it's worked out well.
Geo

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 31 Jul 2005 11:42 am

I pulled the two 12" speakers out of my reissue Twin and replaced them with a reconed D130 and I love it. It's the only thing I use.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 31 Jul 2005 12:49 pm

I have a '65 re-issue Fender Twin and love it.

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 31 Jul 2005 6:49 pm

I liked mine pretty well. I found the stock Jenson speakers sounded great with guitar but kind of muddy for steel. I, too, replaced the 2 12's with a Fender D-130 and it cleaned things up nicely. There is also a custom version of the 65 Re-Issue that comes with a 15" JBL speaker clone already installed. My 65 Re-Issue Twin has been a reliable workhorse for 4 years now.

I bought mine with the Guitar Center one-year-no-interest credit plan and paid for it with gig money. In retrospect, had I had the cash in hand I would have bought an older silver-face Twin. Much cheaper than the $1000 I paid for the re-issue and easier to work on if you need repairs or want to make modifications.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 31 Jul 2005 8:08 pm

Although, admittedly and unfortunately; I haven’t played out in 1½-yrs., I own ‘only’ a ’65 R-I Fender T-R Custom™ 15”, and that’s the only Amp. that I want to own!

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“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’49-’50 Fender T–8 Custom
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 31 Jul 2005 10:48 pm

I saw Robben Ford about a month ago playing through "twin" Twin Reverb reissues and he clearly rocked, or should I say "bluesed".

Those amps sounded just fine to me.

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Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 1 Aug 2005 1:45 am

I've plugged into backline RI Twins provided by the house and had no problem dialing in good sound.

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 1 Aug 2005 3:06 am

Mark,

Robben didn't use his Dumble?

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 1 Aug 2005 5:20 am

I use mine when i can keep it out of the shop which ain't often. But Sam Marshall is trying to cure that problem for me.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Aug 2005 8:22 am

I have an early silver face twin reverb with the two 12" JBL speakers and then I recently acquired one of the custom re-issues with the 15" speaker. I love them with my Stringmasters.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Aug 2005 11:34 am

Is the reissue Twin Custom a PC board amp? I'm curious how it sounds compared to a silver face Twin, with the same speakers. Has anyone ever done this comparison? The '90s Vibrasonic Custom was a PC Board amp, and the one I have does not sound as good as a silver face Twin, when played through the same 15" speaker.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 1 Aug 2005 11:44 am

Yes, PC board. I'm skeptical of this as a tone issue. I have other issues with PCB's--I like to be able to repair or tweak and I am reluctant to touch a PC job. But with so many things that can affect the final tone, some of it being whether the Chicana was having a good or bad day as she hand soldered the components on a Silver Face board---some of those old amps are real ugly inside--or whether the particular cap or resistors pulled out of the bin were (or still are) within design specs....some voodoo, some mojo, some juju, and a little American luck would seem to account for some of the differences from one amp to another. I would not avoid a PCB amp except for the mentioned reason of ease of working on it.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 1 Aug 2005 12:08 pm

Robben didn't use his Dumble?

It was an outdoor blues festival kind of thing. I think all the amps were backline rentals.

The '90s Vibrasonic Custom was a PC Board amp, and the one I have does not sound as good as a silver face Twin...

I also have a Custom Vibrasonic. It does sound different than my '74 Twin. (With JBL K-130) Not better or worse, just different. But, after all, the Vibrasonic is a blackface circuit; so it is going to sound a little different. The thing I notice most is the difference in the reverb between the two amps. 7 or 8 on the Vibrasonic equates to about 4 on the '74 Twin.[This message was edited by Mark Herrick on 01 August 2005 at 01:15 PM.]

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 1 Aug 2005 2:41 pm

Hi Larry!

Gary Lee Gimble just bought a reissue twin I believe. He loves it. I am surprised he hasn't posted a response yet.

Wayne : )

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Aug 2005 4:15 pm

Jon, I have no idea if it is the PC board circuitry itself that has a negative effect on tone. But the general observation is that those Fender amps don't sound as good as the old hand-wired Fenders. It may be simply that they have different circuits and/or components, and the PC board is just a marker for that.

I never heard that the Vibrasonic Custom was supposed to be a black-face copy. Maybe that explains my experience. I have always found the cleaner silver-faces better for steel than the black-faces. But I believe it is correct that the Twin Custom reissue is supposed to be a black-face reissue. If they can so inexpensively copy black-face tone in a new PC board amp, how come the old beat up hand-wired black faces are at such sky-high prices?

Likewise, there is a general belief that the master volume Fender amps sound different. I never noticed this difference myself. Sure, if you turn the master volume down, and turn up the channel volume (which is usually called the gain these days), you get preamp distortion alone, without the harmonic component of power amp distortion. If you just turn the master volume all the way up, those amps sound the same to me as the non-master volume ones. When you get them to top volume and the power amp begins to be maxed out, it sounds about the same to me as a non-master volume amp maxed out. But the master volume amps are usually a little more powerful, and wont break up as early - so maybe this contributes to the "bad" master volume prejudice.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 1 Aug 2005 4:43 pm

...how come the old beat up hand-wired black faces are at such sky-high prices?

Supply and demand. They don't make them anymore so the supply is finite and the demand is great. And people like the sound.

If you just turn the master volume all the way up, those amps sound the same to me as the non-master volume ones.

That's how most people that have them use them. When turned up full the control is pretty much out of the circuit.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Aug 2005 5:43 pm

So, Mark, are you saying that the vintage black-face craze is just all perception and supply and demand, and that the new PC board reissues sound just as good as the old hand-wired black faces? Seems like more to it than that.

Back to the Vibrasonic Custom, how can it be a black-face copy if there never was a black-face Vibrasonic? According to the Fender Amp Field Guide, there was a brown Vibrasonic, '59-'63. The classic Vibrosonic was a silver-face amp, '72-'81. The Vibrasonic Custom was a PC board amp, '95-'96. It had the same power output (100 watts) as the silver-face. Whereas, the Twin Custom reissue has 80 watts, like the black-face Twin, not the 100-135 watt silver-face Twin. The only Fender reissue I know of that is really a faithful copy is the Tweed Twin reissue, which is a hand-wired copy, with a price that reflects it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 1 Aug 2005 6:28 pm

When I can't bring my own gear I request the Twin RI for back line. I like them quite a bit. I have a pile of old Fenders at home that I use. The sound of the 60's Fenders is more "opened up" than the new ones to my ear. I think it might have something to do with the old transformers.
The RI's are great amps though.

I really think Fender got itself back in gear when they did the affordable RI amp line.

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Bob
My Website

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Aug 2005 7:31 pm

I agree, the two reissue Vibrasonic Customs I've had have been better than any solid state amp I've had. They are certainly good steel amps tonewise, but their headroom is somewhat limited (of course two will do nicely for anything). But my favorites for steel are the old silver faces - clean Fender tube tone to the bone.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Aug 2005 12:36 am

well here's a few Fender amps that you may like to purchase..some are still brand new with lables..

Just bring many many monies...

Southworth Guitars, Washington DC

<img src=http://www.bprior.com/fen_amps.jpg>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 02 August 2005 at 01:37 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 02 August 2005 at 01:37 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Aug 2005 5:05 am

I'll take one of each...skip the Marshalls.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 2 Aug 2005 11:43 am

David--just for the record, I didn't mean to come off sounding combative about the PCBs. It's just that I sort of got suckered from too much internet reading into believing "PTP hand wiring, good, PCB, evil" and I'm kind of reacting or overreacting to this simplistic mindset. Not to imply that you were subscribing to it.
There are some boutique amp makers that are using printed circuits (although they will take pains to point out the qualitative differences between the boards they use and the cheap stuff mass producers use but this helps me to conclude that there is nothing generically inherently bad about the concept of the printed circuit.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 2 Aug 2005 12:39 pm

...are you saying that the vintage black-face craze is just all perception and supply and demand, and that the new PC board reissues sound just as good as the old hand-wired black faces?

A lot of it, yeah. I don't think you can compare a brand new reissue amp fresh out of Guitar Center to the same model from 1966. But if you replaced tubes, speakers and set the amp up properly you could probably get the reissue to sound close to the old one. I, like Jon, don't necesarily buy the "PCB is BAD" line...if the board traces are designed well...

...how can it be a black-face copy if there never was a black-face Vibrasonic?

Good point. I don't have the schematic in front of me, but I recall that the Custom Vibrasonic circuit looks similar the blackface Twin circuit. There are differences in the tone stack between the Steel channel and the Guitar channel. The Steel channel is actually more like the original Fender tone stack. The Guitar channel rolls off some lows, shifts the mid-dip up about 500Hz and cuts some highs...

Charles Dempsey · Post by **Charles Dempsey** » 2 Aug 2005 1:26 pm

I owned two new blackface Fenders back in the day; a Twin and a Vibrolux. The sound was great, but they weren't very robust. The '66 Vibrolux in particular was cold-solder city.

The Fender '65 reissues are great amps. So is the Custom Vibrolux. I've got a '65 Deluxe and a Custom Vibrolux. I had a '65 Twin, but sold it a month before I got my first steel (Aaargh!). I don't care if they've got PCBs in them. IMHO, they actually sound better than the originals, and I'm not particularly worried about playing without a backup.

Charlie