Best effects for a pro sound...

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 26 Jun 2003 4:47 am

I just wanted some opinions on what you guys think are the most common and useful effects for a pro sound, especially live. Just need pointing in the right direction of what works and what don't. Tell me your thoughts and thanks!

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Jun 2003 5:50 am

High end studio stuff is the best, but for live performance, good, high quality equipment works fine. Lexicon is great for reverb and their multi-fx devices like the MPX series (100, 200, 550 are the current models) is a good compromise. Using a PCM-91 is probably overkill -- costing more than most pedal steels.

I use Digitech (2112), Lexicon(LXP-5), and Boss(GT-6 and stompboxes) stuff and all the pieces I own are excellent.

The Boss RV-3 is also very popular and can serve as the sole fx device for many.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 26 Jun 2003 6:29 am

Larry, what is your opinion of those Matchbox and susutsin things? Are they really worth it because there are an awful lot of used ones floating around?

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 26 Jun 2003 6:33 am

Brandon, like Larry said, the stomp-box pedals are the most popular for stage and home use. However, the Boss RV-3 and DD-3 are no longer manufactured, so are going up in used value. I chose the RV-3 because the rack mount units require too much space on crowded stages and the small floor pedal is very simple to operate.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 26 Jun 2003 6:57 am

Brandon,
My personal, humble opinion is that a pedal steel needs a buffer amp when a potentiometer activated volume control is used. I prefer the Hilton pedal which has all the active electronics built in, plus it doesn't even use a pot. Keith, being a steel player AND electronic designer, has found the perfect combination of components to allow the full tonal spectrum of the steel to come through and ONLY THE VOLUME IS CHANGED. It is the only one about which I can say that THAT I'VE PERSONALLY TRIED. Goodrich has a new model (CD2 using a Light Dependent Resistor technology) that purports to do the same.

If you're using a pot pedal you may find you need a matchbox. That can be built in (like the Goodrich 10K series) or outboard (like the Goodrich MatchBox models or the Hilton Digital Sustain). The problem they solve is tone changes occurring when the volume is decreased using the volume pedal. 'Straight pot pedals' (e.g., the old Emmons, etc.) tended to get muddier the lower the volume and a matchbox/buffer amp solved that problem.

That's my take on it.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 26 Jun 2003 10:54 am

I think many of us tend to overdo it with the effects and graphic equalizers, etc.
I used to be guilty of that but now all I use is my newly acquired Boss RV-3 reverb pedal, not using the delays on it. The steel should be clean and clear and simple, and the more gadgetry you add, the less clarity, more buzz, etc. I use an amp with enough power to allow for sufficient "headroom", so there is no distortion when you crank it up. I have never had my Evans amp above "5".
That being said, every once in a while I take out my Wah-wah pedal, dust it off and add that to the sound for a select song or two.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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Mullen D-10
Boss RV3
Evans FET 500

Sho-Bud Pro II D10
Peavey Nashvile 400
Fender Stratocaster

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Jun 2003 12:50 pm

Brandon, a lot of players (including myself) espouse on what you need to get a good sound. But in the final analysis, you are the only one who knows how you want to sound, and exactly what sounds good to you. My advice is to see what players you like use (or did use), and decide for yourself what sounds best. For some, it's modern guitars, modern pickups, loads of effects, expensive pedals, and a botique amp. For others, it's simplicity itself...steel, pot-pedal, and good amp.

I continually hear how bad people say the "old pot pedals" sound, and I also continually listen to how good players sounded back in the mid '60's on those old Emmons and Sho~Buds (back before match-boxes, effects units, equalizers, and powered pedals). Most of them (Emmons, Drake, Charleton, Green, Myrick, etc.) sounded really great.

So, what am I saying? Probably that your own "good sound" will come with time, regardless of what you decide to use. It just takes time, and if getting a good sound were as easy as just buying the right steel, the right pedal, the right effects units, and the right pickups and amps, most all of us would have a "killer sound" by now. Such is not the case, though.

Just keep playing. What you (and so many others) are searching for is already in there.

Andy Zahnd · Post by **Andy Zahnd** » 26 Jun 2003 12:58 pm

amen!

Mike Kowalik · Post by **Mike Kowalik** » 26 Jun 2003 2:51 pm

Just recently I abandoned all effect devices while playing live....use nothing but the reverb in my amp...which is set about 5....love the sound ...nothing but pure steel guitar....less to carry and go wrong during a job.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Jun 2003 4:04 am

Yes, what Donny and Mike have said..

IF you don't have good tone to start with efects will not help, they will not make bad tone good.

Listen to yourself play un-plugged, no amp. How does it sound? Sustain, tone ? Then with no reverb on the amp...

I too play live with no effects mostly, now and then I do use an Ibanez delay pedal but thats it. It's me , the Steel and the amp..it's either ok or not..generally if it's not ok ..it's me..

happy friday

tp

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 27 Jun 2003 4:12 am

how about "pro sound is in the hands"?

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 27 Jun 2003 4:57 am

The best effect is :.... practise

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG; John Pearse bar; Emmons bar; Panther amp

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 27 Jun 2003 4:58 am

Thanks guys! In the past, I rarely used effects when playing guitar or bass in any setting because I liked pure sound. Seems I should stick to that notion with the steel.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 27 Jun 2003 9:34 am

Donny, I'm not sure it's fair to compare what the old masters sounded like on studio recordings and what one of us can get live with or without effects. We don't know what the studio engineers did with their sound. For us to get those sounds live might take impedance matchers, buffers and some effects.

The other issue is that many guys use effects not to get better tone, but to get a variety of sounds. They might play most stuff straignt with only EQ and a little reverb, but might throw in effects occassionaly for certain special songs or genres. If you play any rock, blues, etc. then effects are part of scene. They've been a natural part of those genres for decades, why should the steel be any different than the other instruments that play those genres? And if you need effects for this stuff, it's a very complicated technological world out there. Furthermore, most of the effects units are made for 6-string and may not work the same for steel. The makers and salespeople don't know anything about steel. This forum is the best place to learn about effects and steel. Keep the good info coming, guys.

So y'all are all right - for good pure tone maybe you don't need a lot of effects. But for other stuff you do.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 27 June 2003 at 10:37 AM.]

Roger Osbourn · Post by **Roger Osbourn** » 27 Jun 2003 2:14 pm

Right you are Mike.I did the same thing and really love all the clear lows I've been looking for. Roger

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 27 Jun 2003 6:00 pm

What Larry said

For the best sounding reverbs that a musician will ever need, go to Lexicon. Any of the MPX series, except for the MPX G2(way too complex). I can also recommend these also.
Great delay efx and chorus efx too.

The absolute best units like the PCM 81, and PCM 91 from Lexicon, or the high end TC Electronics efx do sound a little bit better. These dudes are meant for the studio. Around $1800 to $2200.

imho
ron

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 3 Jul 2003 7:41 am

Boss RV-3.

Brad Sarno

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 3 Jul 2003 8:19 am

My suggestion is: If you want a Steel Guitar to sound like one, Just play through your amplifier and don't add all the phony stuff. At the most, all I'm adding nowadays, since I bought my new Classic 50 – 212 is a touch of 300ms Analog Delay with an old Ibanez AD–9! My ‘used to use’ things are in the Buy and Sell section of this Forum!

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“Big John” wknsg®
Franklin, D–10 w/9 & 8
Peavey, Classic 50 – 212
Enhancer, E–LG
Ibanez, AD–9 http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 3 Jul 2003 9:16 am

C'mon guys, GET REAL!
Reverb IS AN EFFECT
And it's one that muddies the sound about as much as anything, other than chorus, I can think of.

In that regard, listen to Tommy Morrell -- one of my all time favorite players. He uses no reverb, no NOTHING most of the time and that's part of his own personal sound and it is somewhat unique among steel players. It is as clean as a whistle, but DRY AS A POPCORN FART. And totally appropriate for what he does and the context he uses it in. Most players I know are not going for that very dry sound. The ones who sound best to my ears use a little reverb and a little delay of varying proportions and settings most of the time.

My personal preference is to use very little reverb, just enough to give a 'tail' to the note, and fatten it up with a little delay -- short delay times or slapback on fast tunes and longer times with more repeats on slow songs. Reverb tends to smear the sound and should be used sparingly. Most steel players I hear live use way too much. I love using effects, but they should be applied SPARINGLY, tastefully, and appropriately.

ALL, as usual, IMHO

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps