external volume control?

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 18 Feb 2000 4:46 am

Last night I stumbled onto the best tone I ever got out of my Nashville 400/Carter D10.
I know little less than nothing about electronics. Here comes the tough part.

I have to have the volume up somewhat louder than I want to have it in a small area. Is there, or can there be a volume control, be it leg clamp on or outboard? I don't want to lose that tone and still have some way to control the max volume without cutting back the amp settings.

Thanks to all for any information.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Feb 2000 5:25 am

George, try the three cord hookup, instead of guitar to volume pedal to amp.

Run the guitar directly to the input on the amp. Run the volume pedal in the effects loop (effects out to volume pedal in, volume pedal out to effects in).

This will produce a slightly better sound since the signal from the guitar is not being affected by the volume pedal.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 18 Feb 2000 5:46 am

Yes George,

Both Goodrich and Hilton products have "match boxes" which clamp onto the leg of your steel that come with an external volume control.

Do they affect tone? That is purely subjective in my opinion. My experience has it that it is more psychological than real. Some Double blind tests proved this in several cases in the past.

Check em out friend.

Jesus IS the answer,

carl

Mark Amundson · Post by **Mark Amundson** » 18 Feb 2000 6:04 am

I'll echo Mr Dixon's sentiments toward a matchbox with built-in volume control. But I do have my home-brew match box (buffering and gain of 4) without a volume control and just use the amp's volume control instead.

My prefered chain is:

PSG -> Matchbox -> Goodrich V.P. -> Amp

Bill cole · Post by **Bill cole** » 18 Feb 2000 8:43 am

First things first what kind of pickup are you using. If your useing a Bill Lawrecne INHO you don't need a match box and you may have more problems then there worth

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 18 Feb 2000 9:05 am

I should have given a little more information , sorry fellas.

I do have a Match-Bro, but that doesn't have a volume control. My idea is to have a volume control at the guitar end so I could control it from there.

I can't find my manual and my guitar isn't here. I beleive it's a E66 pickup.

Does Goodrich have a e-mail address?

Thanks again

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 18 Feb 2000 9:18 am

Hey guys, George likes his sound, he just wants to lower his volume without changing anything on his amp--even the volume setting.
Jack, if George uses the 3 cord hookup that will change the way he is hooked up--and what he likes. He is not asking to change everything--only to lower volume. I don't agree with C Dixon either. The Goodrich unit is totally different than my unit. The Goodrich unit has 2 transistors, mine has 127. We won't get into frequency response. My unit brings the signal up to line level, which is a stronger signal. From that stronger signal you can add as much as 3db gain. George is trying to lower gain--not get more. When you bring signal up to line level it is louder--even with the control knob all the way counterclockwise. So, George don't need to add my Digital Sustain if he likes his sound. My Digital Sustain will only give him more volume, and he is trying to lower volume.
I have been working on just such a device. Master volume control at the guitar, after the pedal. Most standard 6 string guitars have volume control on the guitar. Many steels don't have volume control on the guitar, and the pedal does not provide a master control. I am working on a box that controls overall signal after it leaves the pedal. That is really what George is wanting--volume control, without changing his amp hookup or settings.

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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 18 February 2000 at 09:47 AM.]

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 20 Feb 2000 6:31 pm

I have built a volume control that can be clipped on the leg of a steel guitar. Instead of just talking, I have built George something to try. If George likes it he can pay me for parts $14.00 and $3.00 shipping, no labor. If he don't like it, he can send it back to me. We will see if this grand experiment works for George. Please send me your address George!

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Tony Rankin · Post by **Tony Rankin** » 20 Feb 2000 7:58 pm

I think Keith may have come up with a very useful device here. I use a Matchbox 7A primarily for the volume control. I have always found it handy to have the ability to fine tune volume at my fingertips. I am anxious to hear if this works out.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 20 Feb 2000 7:59 pm

I still play my old MSA with a volume & tone pot & a by pass on the back apron.
It does exactly what George wants.
For a smoother sound , I back off the treble & volume, when I need a little more bite..I throw the bypass.

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 20 Feb 2000 11:41 pm

Thanks Keith. I sent you my address via e-mail. If they put a volume control in pedal steels like a regular guitar or the non pedal models I've seen, I wouldn't be looking for something like this in the first place.

Thanks to all that have taken the time to post here.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo
[This message was edited by George Mc Lellan on 21 February 2000 at 11:46 AM.]

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 21 Feb 2000 10:28 am

The Goodrich Super Sustain Matchbox, Model 7A, does not CUT, but only BOOSTS volume. I think the 7A is the current model.

I understand some earlier models DID lower volume.

Keith, I'm also very interested in a master volume, not only for the reason George gave, but also because I have lots of old stomp boxes I'd really like to be able to use with the current steel pickup output levels (it's too much for the old fx boxes as you know). My '78 model 614-E Webb amp does not have an fx loop.

So, I'd love to volunteer as a guinea pig for trying out any master volume controls you may put out, including the simple one you mentioned in your post.

Thanks, Bob

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 21 Feb 2000 10:40 am

Perhaps I'm being a bit simplistic here, but couldn't you just install a pot in a little project box and hook up an in and an out jack? The box could then be plugged in line wherever you wanted it. With a nice unit like Keith's Digital Sustain, I think the signal would be plenty hot enough.

Keith?

Lee, from South Texas

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Feb 2000 11:27 am

Lee, I've got a box like that sitting around someplace, that I made years ago. It has a 500K pot and is wired just like the pot in a volume pedal.

Works fine and I never noticed any tone difference, however for the purists something like that wouldn't do as it may change the tone slightly just like a volume pedal does at low volume levels, on some guitars.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 21 Feb 2000 3:54 pm

Lee and Jack---you are both correct. All the control is---is a POT-voltage divider. This is put in a small box, with a in and a out. I think it needs to be a plastic box and plastic knob, to avoid grounding problems. When I used metal stuff, I noticed more noise from grounding. Like Jack says, a little capacitance may be picked up by the pot. So, George probably needs to experiment where to put this volume control box in line. The possibilies are: Before the pedal, after the pedal, after effects in line. I think what the key to no-loss in frequency would be putting the control "AFTER" the signal is brought to line level. This would be after a pre-amp box hung on the leg of the guitar----OR---after the effect unit,before the amp.
Most 6 string standard guitars have volume controls on them. Steel makers used to do this also, but have got away from it in the last few years. It is not a bad concept, because of the many things in line--NOWDAYS---creating gain. Like one person brought up, many stomp boxes don't have gain controls on them, even though they increase gain.
I will ship George this box I have built, and we will let him tell us what experience he had with it. Glad to hear you used a 500K pot Jack, that may be better. The one I am sending George has a 100K pot in it, and it seemed to work good. I think the only difference would be the rate it comes on and off.

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Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 21 Feb 2000 8:14 pm

I just thought of something else. Most of us have (or should have) an extra volume pedal to use in case our favorite one goes out (gets left behind, gets stolen, etc). Why not just plug that puppy in line and use it for your "master" volume control?

Lee, from South Texas
(Getting tired of 90 degree winter days. What's it gonna do come summer time?)

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 21 Feb 2000 10:04 pm

Lee, sounds like a volume control could bail you out, and ease some of the pain ,if your pedal failed. I've had that happen, and it isn't any fun.
About the 90 degree winter days. The hot weather ruined my Elk Hunting in Colorado. No snow, and the Elk sayed high. Our license was low land.

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George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 22 Feb 2000 6:38 am

Lee,I just tried that using my Williams VP. It does indeed work just fine to do what I am looking for. Problem......it's not very convieniant to adjust. My foot is not as likely to adjust it as good as my fingers.

Having it clipped onto the leg and put in line with everything else would also cut back on the tripping hazzard. I don't know how many K the Williams pedal is, but it worked just fine with this line:
guitar-Williams VP-instrument switching box (I made that)-Matchbro-DD2-Goodrich L120-amp.

Now I don't hear any hum or notice anything that I would call a problem. I am sure some of the more criticle pickers would find a problem with the way this is, but it works for me. I'll try the box that Keith is sending me in the same place in the chain. I will post here when it arrives.

Thanks again for all the input. You technical guys sure are a blessing to those of us that are not into the nuts & bolts of electronics.

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo