Smooth Jazz

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 18 Oct 2006 6:29 pm

I just want to say that John and Bill aren't talking about smooth jazz really and are simply trolling "as John is fond of accussing others of".

I would request that you two guys start another thread that has to do with what your really talking about and stop trying to abuse the forum to get things locked out when it doesn't reflect your vision of yourself.

Forum feedback is a good place for that sort of thing isn't it? Bill, you haven't shed any light on smooth jazz verse's trad jazz in any adult manner, how come? Maybe that would be a good thread for forum feedback. Build it and they will come? [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 18 October 2006 at 11:10 PM.]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 18 Oct 2006 7:39 pm

Jesse,

Please, you can call me all the names you want. I think we know where we all stand. But leave John out of it. We know John's work. We've watched him foster the first jazz mandolin students at Berklee. We've heard him play. He has a body of work, a legacy, and credentials most of the people on this forum respect and only wish they had.

So far, on your side all I've heard is a lot of talk. I'd love to hear you play Charlie Parker, or Giant Steps, or Bach on the guitar. Point me in the direction. You must have something recorded you can share.

As for me, I'm lucky if I can get down to the bar once a week for a jam session.

And may I say, you might want to get develop a sense of humor.[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 18 October 2006 at 08:41 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 18 Oct 2006 8:16 pm

Bill, what is it that you can't get about the forum feedback request? I'll start the thread over there and address everything you just brought up o.k? http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum7/HTML/004044.html [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 18 October 2006 at 11:05 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 Oct 2006 9:00 pm

I have heard John McGann slip smoothly from trad country to out-jazz
in the same song, live with the Wayfairing Strangers.

And then had the pleasure of jamming jazz, etc, with him a day or so later at a party
my sister was having for extended family.
He immpressed everyone as a gentle man
and fine musician.
I REALLY don't get this attack on him...

The man is MUCH more than just an excellent transcriber.
He can back it up with chops, knowlege and taste.

Back on topic.
Smooth Jazz can serve a useful purpose,
as made clear by the debut post of this thread.

It is a channel for those less versed in
jazz and extended harmonizations
and different rhythmic feels to be
brought closer to what some call real jazz.

It is allowing to Larry to expand his pallet of musical knowlege.

In this context it is a viable entity.
And if it brings musical enjoyment to someone,
then fine by me.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 October 2006 at 10:33 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 18 Oct 2006 10:31 pm

Here in San diego we just lost a jazz icon, he was only 51 yrs old. His name was Hollis Gentry and he was one of the founders of Fat Burger (a national smooth jazz band). Hollis was a beutiful musician and man. He played great trad jazz that was just as good as his smooth jazz was successful, he knew his stuff inside and out. He mixed it up on his smooth jazz solos, he could cut any one of us here on the forum easily. He didn't play smooth jazz because he was limited when it came to jazz I can assure you that. Charles Mcpherson had the deepest respect for him as did any pro who got to know and hear him. David, I don't know if you were trying to say smooth jazz is only for limited players or not. I just thought I'd throw another fact out there in support of smooth jazz players.[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 19 October 2006 at 06:27 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 18 Oct 2006 11:17 pm

When I'm at the dentist I prefer the sound of that weird spit sucker thing over the bland, studied mediocraty of smooth jazz. But thats just me. I like that sort of thing.

With this thread at least I can say that I've actually heard of a musician that doesn't wretch with discust at even a passing mention of Kenny G !

------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 19 October 2006 at 12:18 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 19 Oct 2006 7:05 am

I would request that you two guys start another thread that has to do with what your really talking about and stop trying to abuse the forum to get things locked out when it doesn't reflect your vision of yourself.

Yo, Jesse: Remember the tab debate? It started with my offering of a free .pdf book to help people learn to read notation. Rather than starting your own thread, you jumped all over mine, spewing a bunch of malicious crap like "retards"...do unto others, brother, and maybe you'll further your quest here on earth.

------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 19 Oct 2006 9:09 am

Did I mention "snooze jazz" doesn't allow swing beats? Isn't swing one of the essences of jazz? Maybe that's the problem. Get the word "jazz" off that music and maybe there's no problem.

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 19 Oct 2006 12:40 pm

Michael, I agree one hundred percent with you.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 19 Oct 2006 4:45 pm

I guess if you got yourself convinced that you hate something, your not gonna look into it to see if you missed anything. Kenny G happend years ago (26?) and is old news in the world of smooth jazz and so is his signature sound. Kenny didn't write a road map that everyone has to follow. That's like saying if you play jazz you gotta sound like Bennie Goodman? The truth of the matter is you guys who are putting the whole of smooth jazz down most likely don't listen to it nor do you know the different types of smooth jazz that exists or even the artists. My bent on Kenny was a little tounge in cheek at first but you guys surprised me with your attitudes.

There is lots of smooth jazz where you swing the notes, of course if you don't really research it for possible material for gigs your not gonna search it out and know that. The major influence on the guitar players for instance is Wes Montgomery according to interviews. Wes was a pioneer in pop instrumental music in his later years, I don't care for all of it but it's cool.

John, against my better judgement I'm gonna address your question about coming over to your thread concerning the pdf. book and tab debate. You were agreeing with Mike Neer that tab shouldn't be taught to students because it made them lazy when it came to reading notation, right? That was in you post before I ever entered it and that's what I read and addressed.

Over in Forum feedback before we all got it closed, I suggested that "why don't we just stay out of each others way so our bitch with each other doesn't come up" and your reply was "Because neither you nor I own this forum and we are entitled to our opinions and facts"? You figure it out.

[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 19 October 2006 at 10:28 PM.]

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 19 Oct 2006 6:47 pm

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 19 Oct 2006 7:06 pm

Well, one more post on this and I'm out. I mentioned way earier in this thread that I appreciated the musicianship of a lot of the musicians in this genre, but being a long time "real" jazz fan, the first thing I noticed on smooth jazz stations was the lack of swing, meaning the underlying rhythm of the tune. All funk and rock beats by drums and bass. I can take it in very small doses, to me it's modern lounge lizard music. Over and out!!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 19 Oct 2006 7:42 pm

Michael,
I believe smooth jazz developed partly as
an outlet for the post Miles,
alternate groove, players to have a jazz catagory to play in.

Or at least the reviewers to have something
to call the music being created.

The swing people have a lock on the "JAZZ" name,
through New Orleans (trad), Bop and Big Band (swing)
and Texas swing (country jazz).
With a smattering of Bossa, Samba
and Dizzy's african excursions.

So smooth jazz gave a space for funk,
and post R n B rhythms to have a "home" of their own.
These ARE interesting timings to perform inteligent changes over.
And often escewed by the classic jazz players.

This at least directs those tired of
ONLY classic swing, to know where to look.

I happen to like most all types of groove, including swing,
as long as the harmonization is cool,
even One Note Samba can be fun still.
One note in the head, but ah those changes make it cool.

Since then the alternate rhythmic crowd has moved on,
some stayed smart in their musical designs,
others dumbed down for the masses.
Some said this about Chet Baker
and Stan Getz back in the day.

What gets air play in this genre is doubtfully
the best being created within it,
the smartest stuff will go unplayed,
because the programers want to sell advertising,
not raise the level of musical inteligence
of the listening audience.

The days of the lone, all night, jazz DJ, spinning his picks for the enlightenment
of insomniacs is long gone.
Don Fagin even was nostalgic about this period on The Nightfly

Nope today even 3 am is big business.
Lose one listener because you go over his head,
and that's part of an advertising profit point lost.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 19 October 2006 at 08:49 PM.]

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 19 Oct 2006 9:39 pm

The average income of the smooth jazz listener is generally said to be 60 to 80 G +. They are also supposedly highly educated yuppie types for the most part according to the smooth jazz magazine I read. It got me wondering that there must be quite a few black yuppies from what I've seen at smooth jazz festivals?

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 19 Oct 2006 10:44 pm

I'm upping my offer:
First person to provide me with an example of Kenny G playing bebop... I'll take them to McDonald's for a Filet Mignon!
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 19 Oct 2006 11:59 pm

If they are highly educated yuppies, why aren't they making high incomes? Are they too smart to work?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 20 Oct 2006 4:23 am

It got me wondering that there must be quite a few black yuppies from what I've seen at smooth jazz festivals?

Smooth jazz festivals?

This is the silliest thing I've read here.[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 20 October 2006 at 05:23 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Oct 2006 4:38 am

Larry Behm,
I am in possession of a petition signed by 4,386 steel guitarists from around the world, respectfully requesting that you ask to have this thread closed on the grounds that it has become ridiculous. To what address should I mail you said petition?

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 20 Oct 2006 6:08 am

You guys are really showing your age, that's why you think Kenny G is all there is to smooth jazz, he came out 26 years ago but none of you took that into consideration. They have a smooth jazz festival every year in downtown San Diego as well as other places. A couple of years ago I was living in a converted two story produce warehouse downtown that we turned into an artist loft. They had one of the main stages against the building and we got to watch the show for free up on the roof.

Yea, I vote we shut this thread down. Now I know why steel guitar is so far in the back of things, it's not the instrument causing that to happen. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 20 October 2006 at 11:03 AM.]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Oct 2006 6:35 am

"They have a smooth jazz festival every year in downtown San Diego"

I knew there was a good reason to stay the hell out of San Diego.

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 20 Oct 2006 7:00 am

erased

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Oct 2006 7:16 am

Ah, whadda you know about comedy, Shef?

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 20 Oct 2006 7:26 am

Well Mike, here's another joke for ya:

Mike Shefrin, registered July 7, 2006, 1423 post's to date. Good God, that's gotta be a record, lol. If you ever get a life and make it out to San Diego, give me a hollar. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 20 October 2006 at 10:58 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Oct 2006 7:33 am

Coming from someone with 1338 posts himself, your point seems a little disingenuous... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Jesse Pearson
Date Registered: 27 November 2002
Status: Member
Total Posts: 1338
Current Email: jwhillbilly@hotmail.com
Homepage: http://www.jessepearsonguitar.com
Occupation: Street artist / Pro Musician
Location: San Diego , CA<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Respectfully submitted,
Jimbeaux
p.s. before you bother to look it up, I have over 8300 posts since 1999 and freely admit to having no other life.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 20 Oct 2006 7:42 am

3 month's verses 4 years verses 7 years, umm? Mike still has us beat by a long shot if you average it out.