Copyright on 'the Sound of silence'

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 5 Jul 2006 3:07 am

This kinda got buried in another post but I think deserves a place of it's own.

Big noises at odds over the sound of silence
By David Lister Media and Culture Editor
21 June 2002
'The Sound of Silence' may have prompted engaging harmonies from Simon and Garfunkel - but a more literal appreciation of the absence of noise has prompted one of the more curious copyright disputes of modern times.

Mike Batt, the man behind the Wombles and Vanessa Mae, has put a silent 60-second track on the album of his latest classical chart-topping proteges, the Planets. This has enraged representatives of the avant-garde, experimentalist composer John Cage, who died in 1992. The silence on his group's album clearly sounds uncannily like 4'33", the silence composed by Cage in his prime.

Batt said last night: "I've received a letter on behalf of John Cage's music publishers. I was in hysterics when I read their letter.

"As my mother said when I told her, 'which part of the silence are they claiming you nicked?'. They say they are claiming copyright on a piece of mine called 'One Minute's Silence' on the Planets' album, which I credit Batt/Cage just for a laugh. But my silence is original silence, not a quotation from his silence."

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Steel players do it without fretting

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Jul 2006 3:29 am

I'm sure Cage would have enjoyed this immensely.

I do miss Cage. I met him a number of times throughout my life. He conducted one of his pieces that I performed in in college and I got drunk with him later. When I lived in Pittsburgh my roommate ran a macrobiotic resteraunt and catered his meals when he performed. I was at his 50th year retrospective concert in Boston. Went to many of his concerts throughout the years. A year or so before he died I ran into him on the street. He was very frail. I was in a masters degree program at the school of visual arts and was doing a piece based on his principles. I told him about it and he came to my performance.

What a wonderful man he was.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jul 2006 7:01 am

I think that a 60 second verbatim segment of a four and a half minute piece is a clear violation. Is it getting any airplay?

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 5 Jul 2006 8:04 am

I've always thought of 4'33" as a great example of unashamed musical charlatanism. Silence masquerading as a "pice" of "composed" music.
More like, the "composer" holds his "composure" for 4'33" until the audience can no longer stand it. Somebody thought it was radical art- the sheep followed, & now Cage is remembered as "great" instead of a cute lil' wazzoo.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 5 Jul 2006 9:12 am

In an an out-of-court settlement in September 2002, 3 months after the above-quoted article was published, Batt agreed to pay "a six-figure sum" to the owners of John Cage's copyright of 4'33". It could be argued that Batt got his money's worth in publicity.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jul 2006 9:21 am

I wonder: did he copy a segment, or just pick up the tempo?

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 5 Jul 2006 9:25 am

I think it was critiqued as a perfunctory, soul-less, rushed reading of the original.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Jul 2006 11:39 am

"Cage is remembered as "great" "

That is because Cage was great and I think unquestionably the most influencial artist of the later half of the 20th century. No other composer changed so many lives and so many different art forms: art, music, literature, type faces, even mushroom hunting.

Those interested can look at his pre-zen work particularly the Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano which are some of the best piano works of the 20th century.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Jul 2006 12:17 pm

It might be interest for forumites to understand the significance of 4'33".

It was the first major piece Cage composed following his conversion to zen principles following his exposure to the zen hitorian and writer Suzuki during Suzuki's lectures at Columbia.

Before that time, Cage was mostly known for his musical scores for dance companies in which he developed a percussion orchestra made up of found objects like break drums and other materials. Eventually the orchestra's become to big to fit into the small performance spaces these works were often performed in so Cage invented the "Prepared Piano" where he stuck pieces of bamboo and screws into the string of a piano essentially making it a percussion orchestra. This pieces are very beauiful and accessable.

Post Suzuki however, Cage's work changed radically and for the rest of his long life when he adopted the notion of Random Chance into his compositional methods. Using dice, the I-ching and other methods, Cage created an structure whose contents where determined by random chance.

This is where 4'33" comes in. The actual piece is in 3 movements whose total time was determined by chance. The piece is not really silent in that the piece was made up of the sounds that were going on while it was being performed: the seat creaks, coughs, etc. It is actually quite different each time it is performed.

What this did was expose audiences into listening for the first time the sounds that are go on around them but which are never noticed. Cage said these sounds have value also. And in that moment he changed the art world forever.[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 05 July 2006 at 01:18 PM.]

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 5 Jul 2006 3:10 pm

"Me and Cagey got our supply from the same guy. I'm not sure it was good stuff!"
"Yo, Picsitasso, ya Spanish bam! Call yourself an artist? You should try some of this s**t."

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 Jul 2006 3:33 pm

Wow, this is for real!

"Mine is a much better silent piece. I have been able to say in one minute what Cage could only say in four minutes and 33 seconds."

The tragedy is thanks to the original (free and now silent) Napster, both have been cheated out of hard earned royalties.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jul 2006 6:24 pm

I listened to John Cage for a few weeks once while I was commuting. By the end of that time, all sounds became music to my ears. It was a very odd experience.

Frankly, I think Steve Reich will be remembered as the most influential composer of the late 20th century. JMHO.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 5 Jul 2006 6:59 pm

"emembered as the most influential composer of the late 20th century. "

Perhaps, but Cage will is the most influencial artist in that he influenced all art forms, not just music.

Jim Gorrie · Post by **Jim Gorrie** » 6 Jul 2006 10:59 pm

. . . now, why can't I stop thinking about Hans Christian Anderson and "The Emperor's New Clothes. ? ?