What has happened to rock and roll?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 7 Feb 2006 7:58 am

The other say I went to hear our fellow forumite Jim Ives' country rock band. They were pretty good, as was the opening act, a nand that combined middle Eeastern music with rock, with an electic violin as their lead instrument.

But in between was a monstrosity that was beyond horrible. The amps were cranked up so loud that I had to get me ear protectors (the kind they sell in gun shops) from the car, and even with them on, it was physically painful. The guitar player tuned his guitar to an open chord, and his entire repetoire of chops consisted of strumming a chord, and then removing his hands from the guitar and flipping his middle finger at the audience, The bass player simply repeated one note ad infinitem in sync with the drums, while glaring angrily at the audience, while the lead "singer" (I use the word loosely) shouted the F word into over and over the microphone. "(f word) you" "(f word) this place" "(f word) your mother" etc.

There was nothing even remotely musical about them. They were an expression of anger and rage against the wole world.

The really sick thing is that the kids there really got off on this garbage. THAT was the band they camed to see. Most of them left before Jim's band went on stage.

I know every generation has to rebel against the older one, but when I was a teenager Chuck Berry (to my parent's horror) sang about Johnny B Goode playing his guitar, or proclaiming that it's gotta be rock and roll music if you wanna dance with me, while Buddy Holly proclaimed his everlasting love to Peggy Sue and Elvis sang about hound dogs and teddy bears, and a few years after that, the Beatles wanted to hold your hand.

How has music deteriorated into such minbdless anger and hostility?

Jim called me up the next day to apologise for being on the same bill with that monstrosity, and thanked me not for coming, but for not walking out before he started playing.

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 7 Feb 2006 8:07 am

Music isn't changing in that direction, Mike.

It was just one band - a bad one.

Have a beer, put on your favorite radio station and relax.

It'll be OK.

Terry

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 7 Feb 2006 8:10 am

Mike, it sounds like they succeeded in geting the desired reaction from you.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Feb 2006 8:34 am

When your parents grew up listening to Led Zeppelin & worshipping Satan, disco worshipping cocaine and sex, and Alice Cooper and Ozzy biting the heads off of critters, about the only other way you COULD rebel is to start a band that wears suits and ties, carries briefcases, and sings songs about accounting.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 7 Feb 2006 9:29 am

It's not music, Mike. I'm not sure what it is.

Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 7 Feb 2006 10:06 am

Mike, I know what you're saying. There is a genre of rock music now that is terrible. By that I mean the musicianship sucks. IT's basically just guys hollering and playing one or two chords as hard and loud as they can. Unfortunately, my 15 year old daughter listens to that stuff occassionally. I am not a musical snob either. I listen to everything from Coldplay to Pantera to George Jones. And I cannot stand more than a few seconds of it. It's truly awful.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 7 Feb 2006 10:16 am

I didn't think the Sex Pistols were much to brag about, and that's more than 25 years ago.
So I don't think it's a good idea to generalize and say rock music is getting worse,- there's plenty of good rock music out there, but the extremes will always be, well, extreme......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 7 Feb 2006 11:47 am

What Steiner said. Anger-in-music is certainly nothing new. Punk rock is coming up on it's thirtieth anniversary.

This isn't a defense of the ridiculous band Mike saw... it's a response to the title "what has happened to rock and roll?" Framing the question that way implies that rock was once all good, and now it's all bad.

I hate to see something like "Rock Music" or "Country Music" painted with one broad brush. Within those categories, there are a million variations. And yes, most of it may be complete garbage, but that doesn't invalidate the entire genre. There is good music being made. You just have to dig to find it.[This message was edited by Tucker Jackson on 07 February 2006 at 11:48 AM.]

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 7 Feb 2006 1:18 pm

I don't like most of what I am hearing on the top 40 country stations now. To me, each "song?" seems to be a clone of the preceeding "song?".
I understand that music evolves and some listeners begin to like what they are bombarded with. I have seen country music make several changes through the years and it will continue to do so. I am sure that Roy Acuff has rolled over in his grave more than once.I make good use of the "off" switch on my radio. It's different strokes for different folks. We all gotta live together on this planet but we don't have to listen to what we don't like.

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www.phelpscountychoppers.com/steelguitar

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 7 Feb 2006 2:21 pm

Rock'n'roll has always been music about love and life, teenage angst, alienation, and angry rebellion. The punk/metal derived style you describe has been stripped down to nothing but angry rebellion. For some kids, it is honest and cathartic. It's like beating up the adult world in effigy. For anyone else, it is extremely annoying, part of its intention. One would hope that is about as far as things can go in that direction, and any further evolution must be an improvement in some other direction. But one should never underestimate the abilities of angry young people to be obnoxious.

Dave White · Post by **Dave White** » 7 Feb 2006 2:32 pm

Mike, I understand and share your frustration. This is not music, it's just mindless rage and anger acted out by idiots torturing helpless instruments and sound systems. At the Fullerton train depot, which also has an outdoor cafe, every weekend night is a horror show. The cafe hires that kind of band to play on an outdoor stage. The scumbags who show up there to hear the "music" are unbelievable, and they trash the entire area. Meanwhile, Amtrak trains are arriving and departing and passengers can't hear the announcements because the bands drown them out.(Amtrak has several trains to and from San Diego/LA that stop there, as well as one to Chicago.) The passengers are terrorized by the human garbage that hangs out there to hear the bands. You might ask why the city and Amtrak tolerates it. The answer is simple--political. The family who owns the cafe adjacent to the depot is the wealthiest family in town, and owns every city councilman, the mayor and the city attorney. They have even instructed the chief of police to keep his officers away from there so that there can be no appearance of harrassment. Meanwhile, this loud, evil, ugly "music" plays on in a public place where women and children have to pass on their way to the trains, while the singers scream the "F" word at the top of their lungs. Makes the music coming out of Trashville sound almost palatable.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 7 Feb 2006 3:54 pm

They're young, and probably think they are God's gift.
Going a good bit off topic here, but youngsters want instant celebrity and see shows such as, in your case, American Idol, as a way of achieving it. 90% of them come on saying; "This is what I've dreamt of I all my life."(She's sixteen. Jeesh!)
When in fact, they heard that the auditions were in town and thought; `Ah-ha! My ticket to instant stardom.`
I enjoy the early rounds of these type of shows just to listen and see how bad the acts are.
After that, it's all about who's gonna' make Simon Cowell the most dosh before being dumped.
Listen to me! I've become Grumpy Old Man.
Bah, Humbug. I'm off.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 7 Feb 2006 4:05 pm

Mike, what was the name of the place - so I can STAY AWAY FROM IT! (Actually, I bailed on L.A. last month, lucky me.)

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 7 Feb 2006 6:39 pm

there's plenty of good rock music out there,

50's Rock
60's Rock
70's Rock
80's Rock
90's Rock
Acoustic
Americana
Classic Rock
Emo
Extended Jams
Folk Rock
Funk Rock
Glam
Goth
Grunge
Hard Rock
Instrumental Rock
Jam-band
Math Rock
Modern Rock
Noise
Progressive Rock
Psychedelic
Punk
Rockabilly
Roots Rock
Ska
Surf Rock

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 7 Feb 2006 7:42 pm

Well I don't know. I remember my parents weren't too thrilled when I played "An Evening with Wild Man Fisher"

Chris Bauer · Post by **Chris Bauer** » 7 Feb 2006 8:43 pm

Wild Man Fisher - Now there's a name I haven't heard in a while!

"Let's all go merry-go, merry-go, merry-go-round- boop,boop,boop" It used to share the turntable with ceaseless replays of Trout Mask Replica. [This message was edited by Chris Bauer on 07 February 2006 at 08:44 PM.]

Brett Anderson · Post by **Brett Anderson** » 7 Feb 2006 8:50 pm

Mike that band sounds like they are ready for Nashville.

Jay Fagerlie · Post by **Jay Fagerlie** » 8 Feb 2006 12:15 pm

Howard,
You forgot "shoegazers"

Jay

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 8 Feb 2006 3:24 pm

Thsi thread sort of grazes a couple points I made myself on a couple others in the last
month or so.
Is it really music? Maybe. But it does sound like they're using music as an excuse to get back at people, for whatever reason. It's probably really not very INTELLIGENT music, for sure, since there's no forethought as to the "food of love" idea. But whether WE like it or not, obviously they are getting off on being young & obnoxious, and who among us can really criticize THAT- I mean, who amnong the rock and roll generation I belong to (for whom the Beatles changed the world & our lives) can take shots at younger people for having the energy (or inclination) to do what we have "matured away from?"
Can their music be criticized? Probably. Are they Posers? Most likely. But they ARE carrying on in a time honored tradition (that should have a little irony, too, on this board!)
But it isn't like anything has "happened to" RockNRoll music. Iggy Stooge and Alice Cooper were doing this stuff a generation ago.
Yawn.
Give the "supporting" bands a hand, and warn your friends if you must, but rock and roll can never die- and the same people who have said it is "ailing" said it years ago, too.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 8 Feb 2006 4:23 pm

Sounds like it's about "the show" and fashion more than music. What is a drag is how music becomes just another accessory to the fashion statement- that is, if you don't care for the fashion statement, the music taken on it's own terms might not have a lot happening...say, that doesn't only happen in rock music, come to think of it... Ah well, now. Since none of us were ever adolescents, we'll never know the angst

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by Multiple Piercings on 08 February 2006 at 04:26 PM.][This message was edited by John McGann on 08 February 2006 at 04:28 PM.]

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 9 Feb 2006 5:30 am

Howard,

How could you forget "schoolhouse" rock?!

db

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 9 Feb 2006 7:06 am

Time for me to chime in: music has to at least have some sort of melody; this was head-banging music without melody. Just drums and noise. My biggest complaint was the volume level, as it was roughly as loud as putting your ear next to a Cadillac horn. I actually felt physically stressed the next day, like when you've been beaten up.But the people that were digging it will be deaf someday, so there's some consolation in that.
-Jim

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 9 Feb 2006 8:38 am

It's not music, Mike. I'm not sure what it is.

Sounds like "Performance Art."

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 9 Feb 2006 8:40 am

Well, perhaps all they really are is people who want a little attention, and don't mind if it's negative atention. I agree that music OUGHT to have melody, but there is this element- always was there- in electric rock & roll (post mid-sixties) that focused merely on "percussion and angst" as a means of getting somebody's point across. That's no excuse for them being a bad band- but then, that's LA, where bands are often thrown together into "showcases" like this with no rhyme or reason to any kind of
cohesiveness of style, on the part of the promoters. People said similar things about the live Jefferson Airplane, back in the day.
I'm not defending them for being cruddy musicians, but only for being young and reckless, and a dime a dozen. They're probably just really nasty people and this is their "legitimate" expression...

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 9 Feb 2006 1:59 pm

It has been my observation that every generation has to do something a little more radical than the previous, in order to make their statement. In the 60's it was (gasp) long hair.
Over the years there has been headbanging, breakdancing, mosh pits, body piercings, body painting, the goth look, etc.
Seems to be the same paradigm for the tunes they make too.
"Turn that dam* thing down!" is as universal as "Are we there yet?".[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 09 February 2006 at 02:01 PM.]