Nashville number system question

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 17 Jan 2006 12:05 pm

How do you show with hand signs on stage, to players who are not familiar with the song, the chord F# in a song that's in the key of C? 4½ fingers is pretty hard to put in the air.

------------------
Anders Brundell
http://www.countryneers.com/

Sierra S14 E9/B6, Nashville 1000, Session 500, TubeFex, Behringer Virtualizer

Dave Little · Post by **Dave Little** » 17 Jan 2006 12:18 pm

It can't be done. You have to holler out.

Dave

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 17 Jan 2006 3:51 pm

Can the thumb serve as a half-finger, or would that then signify B major?

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 17 Jan 2006 4:33 pm

Just poke your thumb towards the floor. [down means ‘flat’ and up means ‘sharp’] then immediately hold up (5)-fingers! [the 5th. of the scale]. (¡)=(\\|//). Dah! That’s the way I’d do it! {Just hope everyone knows you’re trying to point out a chord rather than just one note!} But, I guess it wouldn’t make much difference to the Bassman!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 17 Jan 2006 4:38 pm

Well, I thought it was an ingenious idea, at the time!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 17 Jan 2006 4:43 pm

Jean Shepperd communicates with her band from behind her back (‘telling them where to go’) all the time!

You’d be surprised at all the places they’ve been!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 17 Jan 2006 4:45 pm

Isn’t anyone else going to say something? Get me out of this!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Jan 2006 5:18 pm

Just skip that song. (I never cared for an F# in the key of "C", anyway!

)

(You're welcome, John.)[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 17 January 2006 at 05:19 PM.]

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 17 Jan 2006 9:47 pm

There is a thread in the archives that discusses this. There are hand signals that were used by all the big bands back in the 40's and 50's to signify a Key. Jody.

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 17 Jan 2006 11:45 pm

Hi Anders,
Is this question based on an actual experience, or just a "general" question, in case the situation ever happens? I would say that "typically" the only cues I would give on stage would be to reference what key a particular song was to be played in, and not each chord change as it happens. For example, a female vocalist is going to sing "I Fall to Pieces" in the key of "A."
If any of the musicians on stage were confused about what key it's in, I would hold up three fingers, and away we go, providing that they understand that form of communication. I would also have to trust the fact that they realized the pick-up notes are on the "A" leading into the 4 or D chord, but that's maybe another subject. I would never attempt to indicate by fingers, every chord change, particularly if there are unusual changes. If it's a song that band members don't know all the changes to, and it's not easy enough to anticipate as you go, just wait until the next break, and either tell them the chords or write them out any way that makes it easy for them to understand.
-- Marc
[This message was edited by Marc Friedland on 17 January 2006 at 11:46 PM.]

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 18 Jan 2006 12:51 am

Thanks for all ideas, especially Donny's radical solution (LOL)!

Marc; yes, it's based on an actual experience when we had a new bass player and the singer decided to toss in a song we hadn't rehearsed with him. It was one of the singer's own songs and at that time he wrote as complicated songs as he possibly could just to prove he could do better than just simple three chord songs.

I've also played in occationally-picked-together-bands for backing a touring singer where just anyone who happened to know the song we were playing had to hand sign the progressions; not all the time, of couse, but a bridge och chorus or something here and there.
Now, that's sport, sir, and it keeps you from falling asleep of boredom, and now I'd like to know what visible signs people uses for half steps.
[This message was edited by Anders Brundell on 18 January 2006 at 12:52 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 18 Jan 2006 2:07 am

how about a NEON flashing sign ?

oh wait, what was I thinking..
that won't work if you have Single Coils....

never mind

t

Vernon Hester · Post by **Vernon Hester** » 18 Jan 2006 2:23 am

Today is not F#'s day. We are using "D" today. We use to have a piano player on a live 8 pc band (TV)show. The only key he knew was F#. drove us crazy!!.

Vern

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 Jan 2006 7:53 am

Here's the thread on hand signals based on key signatures: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum10/HTML/005338.html

But in my experience few guitar, bass and steel players know key signatures, and they aren't going to memorize them for purposes of hand signals.

Here are the simple letter signs. It helps to make them backwards, so when you hold them out in front of yourself, they look right for the guy across the bandstand:

A = hold two fingers down and put a finger across at the joint

B = hold a pointer erect; with the other hand space out your thumb, pointer and middle fingers and hold the tips against the erect pointer

C = curve your pointer and thumb

D = make a backwards C as above, and hold it against the erect pointer of your other hand

E = Space out your pointer, middle and ring fingers, and hold them sideways

F = As above, but leave off the ring finger

G = Make a C, but crook and wiggle your thumb

For sharp or flat keys, point up or down after you give the letter sign. For minors, after you give the appropriate letter, make an M just like an E above, but fingers pointing down

As for the key of F#, when guitarists play in E, Bb horn players (tenor and soprano sax, trumpet) have to play it in F#. That's why horn players are so crazy.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 January 2006 at 07:56 AM.]

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 18 Jan 2006 10:28 am

Just don't use the upward second one-finger
signal...not a good idea.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 18 Jan 2006 4:05 pm

Oh! The heck with it! Prepare ahead of time or just lay out for that note!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’05 D–10 Derby – (6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15”
Current Equipment
Newest Steel

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 Jan 2006 8:08 pm

Yeah, by the time you remember the symbol, the chord will be past. But it might clue somebody what to expect when that strange chord comes around in the next verse. But the letter signs above are better for communicating the key if anyone is still looking for it halfway through the first verse. For a strange chord, using the number system, it probably works better to hold up the number of fingers for the note of the scale, and for a flat or sharp, point down or up.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 January 2006 at 08:12 PM.]