What Ended Your Careers?

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 9 May 2005 8:39 am

From the thousands of posts within this forum, most of the steel players posting were once roadies or bar stage hounds. Suddenly however, it seems that for some reason or another, something happened along the way to shut your advancing career down or, at least put it in an endless tailspin. Some were because of marriage, some because of an alcohol and/or drug problem while some were just plain road and bar burn out.

What stopped you or slowed you into being a homebound musician?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 9 May 2005 8:51 am

Good topic, Les:

25 years in the business brought a nice collection of instruments, some great experiences . . .

But at 45, home was a small rented apartment; transport was an old Dodge van; my savings account had a few hundred; "retirement" from Social Security would be minimal.

All added up to retraining for a change in careers.

Chris

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now living in the Ocean State ....

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 9 May 2005 8:59 am

My quest to be a "star" was sidetracked by the fact I like to eat and my wife and family also like to eat.

Also to the fact I had an excellent and well paying day job and I didn't want to jeopardize it.

Since I've retired, I've done a lot of "professional" work here in Florida. But, since I do get a fairly decent retirement, I can pursue what I would have liked to do 30 years ago. It's too late, for me, to pursue a full time road career at 67 but I can do the local or in-state short road tours.

I did back out of (mostly) bar jobs in 1989 after 30 years in bars. I still do an occasional rare "honky tonk" job but most are shows. In the winter I'm house bandleader for a place that holds weekly "jam" shows.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 9 May 2005 9:20 am

Somehow my quest for fame and fortune caught a case of the hiccups when my daughter was born (this was thirty years ago). To feed and clothe the kid (and myself) I quit playing full-time and started a production company. Things have worked out fairly well and since then I have worked with quite a few "stars" and as far as I can tell, I got the better end of the deal.

Now I'm older, the kids pay their own way, the wife says "get out and play" and that's exactly what I'm doing.

"When I was young I wanted to be the bass player for The Eagles. Now I'm older and having met TWO of The Eagles' bass players I'm real glad I'm not them!"

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<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 May 2005 9:46 am

One word simple answer: Economics.

A day job pays better, does not disappear as easily,etc.

When I did music full time I had to agree to many gigs I didn't even enjoy. That burns you out and takes the joy out of your love for music.

When you have another source of income you can be more selective aboout your music,
thus enjoy it more.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 9 May 2005 10:30 am

A combination of things. In 1981 I was living in Toronto, playing six nights a week in the bars with a variety of people ,and planning to go on the road with a band that my brother had put together. I had also decided to put my budding legal career on hold to do that, to the chagrin of my then spouse. Someone pointed out a law job in Vancouver BC that had my name all over it, and I had this feeling that if I applied I would get it. I didn't even tell my spouse about the job at first, because I didn't think I wanted to commit myself to a career in labour law at the expense of the honky-tonk dream. But at the very last minute I did tell her about it, and then I sat down at the tpewriter and made up a resume and covering letter, and dropped it in the mail. The decision to drop the resume in the mail was made at the last possible minute, and the immediate inspiration for doing it was hearing a line from an Ian Tyson song that says : "....and he may go to hell, or even Vancouver, but he'll always be Alberta's Child..."(I grew up in Alberta). I heard that line, thought "what the heck", and headed for the typewriter. A week or two later I got a call setting up an interview, and before I could catch my breath I was Vancouver bound to be a staff lawyer at the BC Labour Relations Board. I called my brother to tell him that I had decided not to go on the road with him, and he told me that that was a good thing, since he had just decided to go back to university and try to get into law school (He is now a labour lawyer in Toronto, and plays music on the side in a variety of R&B and jazz situations).

Do I regret it? Not one bit. My career has been and continues to be an interesting ride, and I have lots of guitars and even a bit of spare time to play them. [This message was edited by Bob Blair on 09 May 2005 at 11:33 AM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 9 May 2005 10:54 am

I have to agree with Joey on the part about taking gigs you didn't like. I played full time from '63 through '85 and didn't enjoy it near as much as I do being a part timer. It was fun with all the girls, partying, etc. and all that went with it but when I quit I was 45 years old and pretty well burnt out. I also was having problems with a 22 year old waitress who didn't understand me not wanting to leave my wife for her. I moved from the left coast of SoCal to the east coast of Virginia and I'm one happy dude these days. I can play any job I want and not worry about if it pays five bucks or a hundred. It doesn't matter anymore, I play for the music and the good old fun of playing. It's like being a kid again! I actually think I'm playing better now than then too! Hell, I even practice now and enjoy it! When I was a full timer I'd just leave my axes at the club or in an equipment trailer and never open a case when I wasn't doing a gig....JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 9 May 2005 11:28 am

Bob, my epiphany also happened in Toronto, about 2 years after yours.
I had been working my way through college as the lounge pianist at the now defunct "Chelsea Bun" at the Chelsea Inn, 4 nights a week. That's alot of Girl From Ipanemas.
It was a Thursday night, the day before payday, and I was flat broke and hungry when I was done at midnight. My friend Adam met me after work and explained his plan to get fed. We hiked down Yonge St. to the nearest Panzarotti stand, and quietly took our place in the shadows next to the dumpster out back and waited for closing time. Sure enough, at the appointed time, out came the Panzarotti guy to throw all the leftover panzarotti in the dumpster. As soon as the door closed, we were in that dumpster like rats.
As we sat on the sidewalk happily chewing down cold panzarotti, it came to me like a message on high. While it seemed that I was meant to be a musician, I decided then and there it would be a better hobby without having to eat out of dumpsters.
One old guy I knew had this expression:
"A noble calling, but a poor trade. "
-John

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 9 May 2005 11:51 am

I got discouraged with the pursuit of rock stardom because I played in too many bands that had at least one person who had an overinflated ego and thought he knew what was best for the the band. That and the fact traditional blues-driven hard rock had died due to the disco craze, new wave, hair metal, grunge, and all the other fads that came along. I was also not 'cute' enough to be a rock star, and today, more than ever, a pretty face is more important than talent if one wants to be a star.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 9 May 2005 12:01 pm

Saying bad things about Jo Dee Messina...

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 9 May 2005 12:10 pm

I loved the music but got so I hated the business. Drunks, egos, insecure paydays, etc. Many years ago there could be some stability, but not much any more. And if Band in a Box screws up I can turn it off.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3
http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Kenny Burford · Post by **Kenny Burford** » 9 May 2005 12:22 pm

I always use the following to illustrate my position on full-time music:

Go to the nearest Greyhound bus station and buy yourself a one-way ticket to some city a minimum of 400 miles away from where you live and book a room at a $60.00 a night motel. Then load one suitcase with what I call everyday clothes, plus one business suit and dress shirt, pack a small hand bag with toiletries, and don't forget to take your instrument and amp, then get on the bus with everything and ride to your destination. Unload all your stuff and catch a hotel shuttle bus to your room try and catch a short nap before evening, but just for kicks ask management if you can set up all your musical equipment in the banquet room and make sure you are there in your business suit and dress shirt from 8 pm to 10 pm that evening. Then at 10:15 pm break everything down, catch the motel shuttle bus back to the Greyhound bus station before midnight and repeat the process for 3 to 4 days each week for a month. If a person can do this and honestly say they had a good time, then by all means they should consider playing professional music on the road.

Now to answer your question, there are few times in a professional musician's career that they are not going to forced into touring if they are to continue working, especially as few and far between as house gigs these days. I learned at age 22 that I could never be happy living on the road and usually after 6 months to a year I burn out on house gigs. With that in mind I have always known my playing out for hire had limitations and viewed playing music as a great second job. It's better than flippin' burgers or something a long that order. Plus I really enjoy playing for crowds, learning new music and working with other musicians. Although most of my musical heroes have toured extensively I have often wonder what financial and physical toll it has taken on them. Plus, I am reasonably sure that my limited amount of talent probably aided in my final decision.

My youngest son (age 26) is pursuing a career to become a profession musician and currently studying classical/flamingo/jazz in the Kansas City area, but I worry what adverse effects it will have on his life. He is developing into a great player, but how many great players have we all known that wound up living most of their life in poverty. I can only say that I wish performers and musicians had a better financial safety net.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 9 May 2005 1:10 pm

Yes, that's an excellent question, Les. Heck, I've been in and out of the music biz a dozen times.

I even tried to quit the music business once and join the Army, and failed at that because of my poor eyesight, even after scoring in the top 5% on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery test and having my choice of any job in any branch of the Armed Services, until they got a look at my eyes during the physical. That was one of the biggest disappointment of my life.

So back into music fulltime again.

I did quit in '84 a couple years after marrying my first wife. She didn't "make me" quit, it was my idea, to give a more stable family life and future to my wife and son. I got a job at a television station and had to start at the bottom and the starting pay was so low at the time, we did better while I was a musician, but at least the pay kept improving until it got quite good and it was steady and we had benefits.

We had other problems and I divorced that wife a few years later, but I stayed at the TV station and started making good money, and played music on the side for fun in local clubs, casuals and recording demos.

I stayed at the station for 16 years total, until in 2000 I couldn't stand it anymore. I'd remarried in '99 also, and my new wife and I discussed it and decided it was time to quit. We thought with her also working, I could give the music biz another try, besides my doing work on websites and computer tech work on the side. In a way it was a mistake. The music business isn't what it was 20 years ago, and if I'd done some checking around first I would have found that out, but still I couldn't stand the TV station any longer and I would have looked for something else anyway.

I did play fulltime again, from 2001-2003, playing steel for Lorena Prater around the midwest, doing mostly fairs and we had a ball.

Now we're "semi-retired" from music and everything, here in Central Mexico. Funny thing is I think I work harder now just taking care of the house and yard than I ever did when I was working full-time at anything!

I still do a recording session now and then and am working on my own CD, will play out if/when the right thing comes up.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 09 May 2005 at 02:51 PM.]

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 9 May 2005 1:14 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Kenny Burford wrote:

I can only say that I wish performers and musicians had a better financial safety net. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was the reason for the musician's unions many years back. The only problem was that there were/are thousands of young and old musicians out there who would be willing to kill for a work for free, live stage gig. This aspect probably ended more professional playing careers than anything else.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 9 May 2005 1:37 pm

I quit playing full time in 1964 to take a day job with a retirement plan, but I continued playing part-time. The problem was, that the weekend job became 4 or 5 gigs a week along with the day job and it eventually caused extreme burnout. So, I quit music completely in 1970 and didn't take my guitar out of the case again until 1984 when I retired from the day job.

I enjoyed my freedom to work music jobs after retirement but I had more work than I really wanted, so when some family health problems arrived in 2002, I used that as a reason to quit playing again. But the real reason was that I didn't want to play anymore. I had lost all interest in it.

Playing music was a good ride most of the time, along with some less desirable moments, but I don't think my interest is going to return this time. I suspect that my 74th birthday next month may have something to do with it!

My advice....play as long as you can or want to, but quit when it's no longer fun and do something else!
www.genejones.com

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 9 May 2005 3:41 pm

Quote:

Kenny Burford wrote,
"My youngest son (age 26) is pursuing a career to become a profession musician and currently studying classical/flamingo/jazz in the Kansas City area, but I worry what adverse effects it will have on his life."

If he pursues flamingo guitar for any length of time, it could have a VERY adverse effect on his life ....
Ahh, the shortcomings of Spellchecker ...

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 May 2005 3:56 pm

I gave up being a full time musician because the business part of it left me high and dry after a pretty good long run. I was discusted with the whole thing. I tried the day job thing and was making real money. I could buy anything I wanted. The problem was I was rotting inside from not playing as much as I need to. Every minute at work felt like a wasted moment that was gone forever. Over the years I sunk into a horrible depression. So I finally figured it out and walked away from the world of sensible decisions. I went back to full time player. I sometimes wish I could live the day job life but I tried and just can't handle it. It is too frustrating and painful for me to do anything else.

So I guess I tried to end my musical career but it didn't work out !

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Bob
intonation help

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 9 May 2005 5:03 pm

Playing with your 1 1/2 year old son, having a great time bouncing him on your knee and chasing him around and hearing that sweet giggling.

6 months later you come home and he doesn't know who you are and backs away when you say his name.

The hell with that.

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 9 May 2005 5:44 pm

I had a day job as a tech (after the Army ’69-’71) when I played on weekends from ’72 to ’77, B-3 in a jazz trio; from ‘77 to ‘95 keyboard & guitar in an oldies/country band at VFW’s, Legions, etc. (a lot more fun than playing lounges). Bought a Sho-Bud Pro-1 in ’87, used it on 3-5 songs per night.

I Quit playing in a band in 1995, when I accepted a position as a teacher. When I accepted the job I decided to make the commitment that students and family come first, and everything else is second. For the last 10 years, I've been busy writing lesson plans, teaching electronics, computer/network servicing, math & science, along with phone calls, parent conferences, workshops, staff meetings, advisory committee meetings, website data entry, grading papers, requisitions, progress reports, curriculum research & writing, and attending college for mandatory credits. No time to play out anymore, but this is the most rewarding job I’ve experienced when you shake the hand of a successful graduate going to college.

Then, I have about 2 months off during the summer to practice chops on keyboard, bass, guitar, PSG, and record some tracks, mostly for other vocalists. By the time I get my chops back, it's time for the school year again. School is out June 7-Aug 24. I may try playing out a few times then. I miss the interaction a little.

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Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1, Nashville 112, Goodrich Pedal, BJS 15/16 Bar

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 9 May 2005 6:02 pm

Earlier when I said I got so I hated the business, I should have added that if I had it to do over, I think I would do it again. I could have done something that paid better but nothing as rewarding in my heart. I knew from the time I was a toddler that I would be a musician. It's like I had no choice.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3
http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 9 May 2005 6:21 pm

Yep Howard, I hear you. While I worked at the TV station, the first years I said, "the music business stinks, it's over, I'm glad".

After a few years, I missed it a bit more, and planned to go back to it someday when the time was right.

A few more years, and it really began to get to me. By then I'd left my job as director/editor and was a master control operator, a lateral move but a big step up in pay and absolutely no BS to take from anyone. Also not much of a challenge.

I began to feel I was wasting away in there.

On one of the talk show programs I aired, the topic one day was up-and-coming new artists. They had Sammy Kershaw on, and I saw my old friend Jim Bob Garretts playing steel with him. Sitting there in my control room watching, I felt sick. Another time Gladys Knight was on some show singing, that really did it, since about 10 years earlier I'd played guitar in her band a bit. Like Bob H. said, I felt rotten and empty inside, despite the money, benefits and stability. I swore I'd get back to music someday.

One of the reasons I stayed at the station so long was NOT because I was afraid to leave, but rather I couldn't find a label or type to call what I wanted to play. I thought first of moving to Nashville, but when I played the radio or TV shows, I didn't care much for the stuff I was hearing (sorry N-ville guys, the musicianship was/is excellent, it was the songs themselves I didn't like). I didn't like the new rock and pop either. I knew what I liked when I heard it but didn't know where to find it, what to call it or how to get in it, so I stayed at the station.

Kinda ironic, all those years I planned to get back to music "when the time was right", and when I actually did return to music, the time turned out to be anything but right. All the nightclubs, casinos, bars, etc. that I used to play are either closed or don't have live bands anymore. The few casinos in Vegas (where I was at the time) that still have music mostly have young pop-rock groups. I did have a great time playing with Lorena Prater's band around the midwest 2001-2003 though.

I gave my reasons above why I quit music when I did, but I didn't make very clear that I'm back in it, even though I say I'm semi-retired and I have other part-time jobs, I still consider myself a musician and when the chance arises I'll be doing it again, until then, still recording. I do agree with Gene though, that if you get to the point you hate it or just a temporary burnout, quit. When I needed a break I'd quit the music for 6 months or so and work for my Dad in his cabinet shop. That's not an option for me anymore and I'm no longer burned out anyway. Ready to go play.... just need a place.... working on that.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 09 May 2005 at 10:37 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 9 May 2005 8:13 pm

Early on (early 70s), I decided a full-time musician's life was not for me, but I continued to play (guitar), sometimes out, sometimes not. Then in the mid-90s, I hit a burn-out point in my professional career, and became a professional musician for about 5 years. But I soon found that the things I didn't like about it in the early 70s hadn't changed any, so I went back to science & engineering.

I still play, sometimes out, sometimes not, and I'm much happier. I can pick the gigs and music styles I want to play, as well as the musicians. It's called creative control, and it's much tougher to achieve when you need every gig to put bread on the table. But that said, I had a blast in those 5 years, I'm glad I did it.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 9 May 2005 8:19 pm

Creative Control...... exactly! It's nice to be able to pick and chose what and where you play. That's where I'm at now too, just need a bit more to pick and chose from around here!

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 9 May 2005 8:46 pm

Wow.........my career is over? I had no idea. I thought it was just startin to get goin pretty good.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 May 2005 9:11 pm

I don't really know. It just kind of slipped away..

Actually none of my jobs have ever made the muster of being a "career". Just a string of jobs, musical or otherwise.

I became homebound as soon as I finally bought a house that didn't have wheels and a motor. I played a lot more music after I started my day jobs, than I did when I did it "for a living".

It is interesting though to entertain an outside view of your life, or "career" and what all it entailed. Often I think it would look somewhat different than how it is represented.

As a musician, I claim to be a Truck Driver, and Construction Worker. On my Construction job, I claim to be a musician. On both I'm told not to quit the other one.

EJL