Auto-tune / pitch correct

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 21 Sep 2004 7:20 am

Hi folks,

What are you hearing when you identify a vocal that has been processed with pitch correction? What is the tell-tale "give-away"?

I'm not able to identify pitch correction on recordings.

Then again I don't listen to much top-40 country!

-GV

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Sep 2004 7:39 am

The most extreme example of auto tune in on Believe by Cher. Its used as an effect. Just about everything you hear on top 40 country has been auto tuned. Even the instruments. Thats one of the main things give it that one dementional, lifeless sound. It gives the vocals a strange synth like sheen. You can hear it plain as day on Jo-dee Massenas stuff from a few years ago. The ramp in between slid pitches is absolutely straight and then flattens out suddenly on the designated note. Its sorta a nightmare once you can notice the auto tune sound. It really ruins any attempt I make at enjoying the music coming out of Nashville these days. I hope that the Nashville producers catch up with the L.A. and NYC producers soon and stop abusing the auto tune tool.

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Bob
intonation help

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 21 Sep 2004 7:59 am

Maybe they'll stop using it so much when they start recording people who actually know how to sing.

Glenn Austin · Post by **Glenn Austin** » 21 Sep 2004 8:39 am

You can really hear Autotune on Tim Mcgraw. I think it is a neato effect, but way overused. It's something I would want to use as a last resort.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 21 Sep 2004 8:48 am

"One-dementional" - I like that. I just heard a live clip of Sheryl Crow (now she's country, ever since she teamed up with good ol' boy Kid Rock). Holy Moly, did she ever need some pitch correction! Maybe they could put it on a footpedal so the soundman can fix 'em up live.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 21 Sep 2004 9:27 am

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:30 PM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 21 Sep 2004 10:07 am

Jim, I've already dug out my old jazz stuff. Art Pepper anyone? How about some Sonny Rollins? Autotuner!?!? They didn't need no stinkin' autotuner!!!!!!!!

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 21 Sep 2004 12:22 pm

What blew me away was when it George Strait used it on the song "Stars on the Water."

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Sep 2004 12:43 pm

Could someone please post a sound clip of an obvious autotune effect so I can hear what it sounds like? I don't listen to commercial radio much, so I dunno...

Thanks for the education,
jc

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Sep 2004 12:53 pm

Jim,
Its used on EVERYTHING coming out of Nashville ALL the time to some extent ! Even the instruments. Listen carefully to the vocal phrasing of anything by Tim McGraw or any one of the weaker singers. First listen to Ray Charles or the Beatles or whatever to clear your ears. Once you start hearing it you will be amazed at how messed up the producers in Nashville are. Its like when you start to notice the flagrant abuse of compression.

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Bob
intonation help

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 21 Sep 2004 1:17 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:30 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 21 Sep 2004 1:37 pm

Please allow me to clear up a few things about this autotune beast, since there seems to be a bit confusion as to what it actually does. There are two ways to use it (at least),-

First, there's the audible effect, or the 'Cher' effect if you like. This one is obvious to anyone, and is an effect (a rather tasteless one in my ears) just like a wah on a guitar..

Then, there's the 'hidden' way to use it. This means correcting the pitch of a singer or musician to achieve a 'clinically correct' result.
My own take on this is that I DO correct pitch every once in a blue moon (not with the autotune though), but ONLY if it's really bad and in an otherwise great take that I don't want to risk messing up.
In my view the problem today is that the autotune has become a cruch that is abused rather than used when absolutely necessary.

Too many producer seem to just turn it on at the start of the session and leave it there, on 'automatic' mode (okay, I'm exaggerating, but still..), while others use it with great care and regard it as one of those tools you pull out of your drawer when 'nothing else works'. Which is probably how it was designed to be used in the first place, but as we all know,- tools that are made to make our work easier easily gets abused......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Sep 2004 7:29 pm

Well, not everything that comes out of Nashville succumbs to the "autotune jockeys".

You see, I just listened to "Save A Horse...yadda, yadda, yadda" by Big&Rich. No evidence of it on that one. (LOL!) Their new "CDR" song (that's my own acronym for "cowboy-disco-rap") sure could 'a used it, though. I believe Big&Rich are best described as a SNL parody of Brooks and Dunn.

Yep, that's it.

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 21 Sep 2004 10:07 pm

Aren't we missing the obvious question here:

Has anyone tried using auto-tune on steel? Could make for some hilarious effects - but I actually wonder what a VERY subtle setting would do for steel intonation. Would it work at all?

Toby Rider · Post by **Toby Rider** » 21 Sep 2004 11:36 pm

Digital vocal harmonizers get abused quite a bit as well..

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 22 Sep 2004 4:23 am

Per,
The McSinger Machine does not work on chords as of yet.

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Bob
intonation help

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 22 Sep 2004 6:41 am

..or Pavorotti....

Being human, I'm sure he's hit the wrong note a time or two. But I bet he also at least knows when he's off!

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 22 Sep 2004 7:10 am

Just listened to a clip of Cher's Believe on All Music Guide. WOW that's crazy! But she's using it as an effect, not as a "fix".

I still don't know how to identify AutoTune when it's used as a fix.

Maybe I should remain blissfully ignorant?

-GV

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 22 Sep 2004 7:18 am

I still don't know how to identify AutoTune when it's used as a fix.

If it's been used discretely on a few sour notes, by a skilled engineer, you will never know.
If it's been abused however, the vocals will just be too perfect, to the point of sounding clinical and sterile, and if the engineer has been heavy handed you may be able to notice a tiny little 'cher' here and there...

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Chris Haston · Post by **Chris Haston** » 22 Sep 2004 7:38 am

Really though, just listen to Tim McGraws later material. There's a certain metallic quality to it. When there are backup vocals, the lack of natural beating in pitch makes it sound almost robotic. I have Autotune. It's a decent quick fix on demos for me

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 22 Sep 2004 7:58 am

It's a strange evolution that the "tuners" have come through. On some or most of these average to crappy singers coming out of Nashville lately, they just plain need help with their pitch. Sad but true.

Tuners used in auto mode are very detectable and offensive sounding. You can hear this strange layer of what sounds like a synth or chorus in there and it's a layer of sound that is kind of detached from the real singer's voice. I can't even listen to music with that sound. I just change the station. Sad thing is that it's on MOST of the new country stuff.

I've worked with some engineers who will manually use a "tuner" and honestly, when used manually and sparingly for just fixing little bad spots, they're pretty impressive and unnoticeable.

What's sad to me is that the sound of the tuner has become the new sound for even very good singers like George Strait or Alan Jackson. The new sound is sort of a hybrid. On the guys who don't need pitch correction, they'll let the raw uncorrected vocal thru in the mix, but they'll also mix along side that the "tuner" sound with some slight pitch correction. It creates this whole new layer giving the singer's voice a very modern, robotic timbre. I can tolerate this just a bit more than a truly "auto-tuned" voice track because the original imperfect track is still there. It's become the new sound and our ears are getting used to it. To me it kind of kills the emotional part of the human voice.

I consider it a musical tragedy in general. People used to just sing well and that was good enough. I say if they can really sing, leave the tuners to all the hacks. It should separate the pro's from the "faces".

Brad Sarno

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 22 Sep 2004 8:11 am

..all of this new technology is about to convince me that I should start singing! I just need to select the "right" material for success!

Stand by for my first hit!

Seriously, I am remembering those that I have known who have "made it" without a pitch corrector and without a great voice, so there is certainly more envolved in being successful than just being able to hit a note on pitch!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 23 September 2004 at 06:20 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 22 Sep 2004 8:26 am

I'm still waiting for the "Instant Talent" plugin.....

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 22 Sep 2004 9:54 am

Autotune, like reverb, phaser, chorus should come with one more control.
It should be labelled "Taste"
The lowest setting should be marked "Unspeakably Tasteless"
The highest should be "Pure Class"

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Cheers!
Dave

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 22 Sep 2004 1:38 pm

I totally agree with Brad. My wife and I have been performing together for 12 years now, she has NEVER missed pitch as long as I've known her.It kills me to hear "singers" who can sing no better than me! JimP