What went wrong

Tom Callahan · Post by **Tom Callahan** » 27 Sep 2003 2:42 am

Sitting around last night watcing some old clips of the Opry, it was quiet evident that the Opry used to be an "Event".
Ladies in beautiful gowns, the men, even band members dress to the nines.
My dughter who came in headed to Atlanta to go to a concert put on by her piano playing hero even comented on how great Tammy Looked in her pink gown.
Then we discussed the current crop of entertainers. I will still shellout money to go see George or Ray. But if I am still around I don't think I will pay a dime to see some 55 year old wearing a baseball cap down on his eyes and a t-shirt with no sleeves,
Went to a litle local bluegrass festival and the majority of entertainers wore suits.
Don't know really what I am trying to get to except, What the heck went wrong?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Sep 2003 5:23 am

Times change. People lose appreciation of what "class" really is. (Most of it is "appearance".) The "dress codes" went out the window, and people got lazy and disrespectful, in general. Most of this was brought on by the fact that the "me" generation of the '70s (that was self-admittedly pretty loose, and screwed up) finally grew up, became parents, and then passed their "I don't give a damn" attitudes on to their children.

What you're seeing now, in every facet of our society---from the Opry to our schools, is the final result of all that wondeful "freedom and self-expression".

Great, ain't it?

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Sep 2003 6:47 am

Mega dittos Donny,

"For there is none so blind as he who will not see",

carl

Leigh Howell · Post by **Leigh Howell** » 27 Sep 2003 7:01 am

You sure hit the nail on the head Donny!!![This message was edited by Leigh Howell on 27 September 2003 at 08:01 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 27 Sep 2003 7:10 am

It's a cultural symptom.

Rock and roll is, and always was, about the commercialization of rebellion. This rebellion is most frequently expressed with outward appearance... hair, clothing, body art, piercings, tattoos, et al.

Since rock and roll has insinuated itself into almost every area of society, including country music, it's no surprise to me that you see performers on the Opry dressed worse than the ushers, janitors, etc.

I was looking at some old pictures of country bands around LA in the 1960's... these were honky tonk bands, incidentally..., and all of the guys were wearing white shirts and ties. Funny how time slips away.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 27 Sep 2003 8:08 am

Donny,
I couldn't have said it better. British society is suffering the same malaise too.

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 27 Sep 2003 8:26 am

Hey guys,do you think that multiculturalism and the culture war we are in has something to do with it? How about Hollywood and its decay?
J.C.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Sep 2003 9:25 am

What was the definition of Crumudgeon again...?

JUST KIDDING......

EJL

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 27 Sep 2003 9:46 am

Donny, as usual you are correct. Its a general lack of both self respect and respect for your audience. We have a rule in our band. Look sharp or get off the stage.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 27 Sep 2003 10:43 am

I think there's another factor involved. In fashion, as in everything else, the pendulum always swings back and forth. For every action there is a reaction, and I think the slovenliness we are seeing today is a reaction (an overreaction) to the Nudie suits of the past.

Personally I would like to see performer's clothing somehwere in between the 2 extremes. Informal, but not sloppy, dirty, or torn.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 27 Sep 2003 11:56 am

Yes times change. Events just reflect the current culture.

I recently saw a tape of Professional Wrestling (Georgeous George, etc) from the 50s.

All the men in the audience wore ties, most had jackets, the ladies has nice dresses (and hatpins)!

Now most men don't even wear ties in church.
THat's a good thing, IMO.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 27 Sep 2003 1:45 pm

Donny.......thanks for saying what I have said before only to be flamed by those who enjoy the pony-tailed, gray haired, pot bellied old men still trying to be hip rockers in their sleeveless undershirts and hairy arm pits.
I guess when they leave the trailer court
in their old Ford pickup with misc. mismatched body parts, with BIG cracked MIRRORS and broken Movjave lights, big mud flaps with a silver silouette of a naked blond displayed on them.......they already feel dressed up, eh?
Keep em coming Donny! You're the man!

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 27 Sep 2003 2:06 pm

On a related note, did anyone take a look at the recently posted photo's from Mr. Cash's funeral and notice the pics of folks showing up in do-rags and other inappropriate garb?
There are times to leave the fashion statements in the closet.

JMHO

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 27 Sep 2003 2:39 pm

Er Ray.. I lost one of the chrome sillouettes....

Playing at Jubitz with Jason tonite, Suitcoat Slacks and spit shined boots. Worn out old Sho~Bud with a shiny new white fretboard.

( I see why they went to black though.. Catsup shows up too easily..)

Too loud though, I'm sure.. It is even for me...

Doug and I are hoping you and the missus, ( or hell, maybe just the missus) come down sometime Sun-Thurs there and catch the "Wall of Steel" on the last leg of our 2003 Willamette Valley Tour we started last week in Keiser.

Bring a Ricky if you think of it.

EJL

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 28 Sep 2003 9:21 am

Times change. People lose appreciation of what "class" really is. (Most of it is "appearance".) The "dress codes" went out the window, and people got lazy and disrespectful, in general. Most of this was brought on by the fact that the "me" generation of the '70s (that was self-admittedly pretty loose, and screwed up) finally grew up, became parents, and then passed their "I don't give a damn" attitudes on to their children.

I think you got it wrong Donny (respectfully

)! My generation is not lazy and disrespectful. We just try to de-emphasize the superficial. What you look like is not nearly as important as what you are. Your behavior, demeanor, intellect, etc. are way more important than how you dress. Alan Jackson is "class act" (to me) because of the meaningful lyrics he writes, the great melodies he writes, the prominent steel and fiddles he features, and his humble attitude. The fact that his knees are protruding through holes in his jeans is of little importance and certainly not disrespectful (to me). I suppose "class" and "disrespect" are in the eyes of the beholder. And we are not lazy. I have personally been employed since I was 12 years old. I'm 50 now and I am proud to have contributed to the social security system that will help take care of my "elders" in their golden+ years!

I understand, respect, and accept older generational viewpoints. I also understand, respect, and accept the new young generation's viewpoints. My daughter and her friends went to a music concert yesterday to see "AFI". They wore their hair in spikes with make-up (boys too) and some body piercings. These kids don't play on the high school football team because they don't believe in the alcohol consumption by the "jocks" on Friday nights. They are anti-drugs and alcohol. Many are vegetarian too. Instead, they belong to the theatre club and formed their own club in school to promote acceptance and tolerance with regard to racial hatred and other prejudices. I couldn't be prouder of my spike-headed-punk-rock daughter! I have gotten to know these kids and they have taught me that what you look like is not as important as who you are. Are they rebelious? YES! So was I. But nobody gets hurt. Many of my "straight laced" high school football playing buddies are now alcoholics, divorced, or in jail! Go figure.

The new young generations are not lazy and disrespectful, neither is my generation, and neither is yours. Viewpoint and definitions are the only things that have changed. I am sure Johnny Cash smiled down and even had a chuckle at the do-rags at his funeral. Johnny was a rebel too!

If the Grand Ol' Opry held a picnic and some folks showed up in tuxedos, wouldn't bother me a bit! I'm OK, so ar you! - that's what my generation is about.

Terry

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 28 Sep 2003 12:16 pm

Just before I came of retirement age, I received a letter from Social Security that said, "The funds are there for you and will be there for you regardless of what happens to S.S." Maybe some of the other "elders" got the same message. This being the case I think the young folks are paying for their own retirement. If you are paying for mine, God Bless You!! Life is great.
I love Alan Jackson and I buy his CD's, just about all of them, but still won't go see someone perform who looks like he just came in from cutting the grass. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 28 Sep 2003 3:29 pm

Yes and Terry..

I let it slide til he got launched, but I REMEMBER why Johnny wore black. It was a protest against the War in Vietnam. Pure, Plain, and Simple. He announced it several times, and wrote it in a song.

Recently I forget who the spokesperson was, but he said it was "because it got him noticed" and gave an example of a school gathering he played at, noticing the attention given the principal, who was wearing black.

Besides it made him look thinner....

I think it was presented that way to avoid being used in the the pathetic scramble of todays anti-american types looking for ammunition, and I think rightly so. Johnny's objections to the War in Vietnam WERE patriotic. So were mine. It was a different war. It should have been handled like our current one is. We knew it. Look at the difference in the body bag count.

Times, they change. Like Howard Cosell, sometimes people don't bend their opinions to fit popularity, and they find themselves popular.

Here's to 'em. The REAL ones, that is..

I seem to remember Grandpa Jones "hoboing out" on the top venues. Not to forget String Bean, Box Car Willie and his buttons, and MINNIE PEARL with her price tag. Tacky? I dunno.

I think a person should MEAN to dress the way they do.. You know, have a change of clothes in a bag to put on after they set up. Even if they're blue jeans and romeos.

Just a couple or three cents from my tip jar last night....

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 28 September 2003 at 04:33 PM.]

Adrian Wulff · Post by **Adrian Wulff** » 29 Sep 2003 12:25 pm

I don't care if they all wear pink tutu's and rainbow fright wigs, I just wish Top 40 acts would stop sounding like Def Leppard.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Sep 2003 4:42 pm

Allow me to digress...

I don't mind being called a "curmudgeon". Lord knows, at times I've been called a lot worse!

There is really nothing wrong with dressing "casually", when appropriate. There is, however, a decided predjudice that comes with dressing slovenly, or in a manner entirely inappropriate to the surroundings. When you defy convention, you will often raise eyebrows. Things seem to have gone topsy-turvey lately. I can remember 40-50 years ago, a lot of the audience at the Opry was dressed like farm-hands (which they were), and the stars were dressed like...well..."stars" (which they were). Nowadays, the audience dresses like stars, and the stars dress like farm-hands!

Am I the only one who noticed? (By the way, I was pleased at the way Merle dressed on his recent Opry appearance.)

I don't disagree with the statement that what a person is, inside, is important. Clothing and general appearance is not a substutite for respect and good moral character. But I'd be lying if I said that nobody thinks the two don't go hand-in-hand. Clothes don't "make the man", but they can be a powerful adjunct. No, I wouldn't expect a man to wear a tuxedo at the beach, where swimsuits are appropriate. By the same token, I wouldn't expect someone to show up at a funeral with cut-offs and a tank top. Would you?

America is a free country, and a lot of people died to keep it that way. They fought for all our freedoms, both fundamental and trivial. We enjoy the right to be able to express ourselves in almost endless fashion (no pun intended). Still, why shouldn't we try to project the best image possible to those we encounter? Is there some social group think that holey jeans and sloppy shirts are "sexy", and are therefore an asset? If so, what does that say about them? After all, aren't they then making a judgement based on appearance? (Got'cha there!)

Not all of you are are old enough to remember Jimmy Rodgers. He was known as "The Singing Brakeman", and often appeared in a brakemen's uniform...but it wasn't greasy, torn, or wrinkled. "Dressing like the common man", and "dressing like a bum" are two different things, altogether, (though the clothes may be the same).

A lot of people fall under our gaze during the course of a day, and vice-versa. It's human nature to make judgements based on what we see. Old folks do it, and so do young people. Sure, in our society you can wear just about anything, you can have your hair spiked and 6 different colors, and can have myriad piercings and tatoos, and display them boldly for all the world to see. Will you be "noticed"? Probably, though that depends on the surroundings, and the observers, themselves. That which appears different to us often evokes commentary. If you dress in a fashion that is not suitable for the occasion, expect to be glared at! Of course, "polite" people won't say anything to you...but they will make some sort of judgement about you. Keep that in mind. There will always be those who invoke the old axiom "You can't judge a book by it's cover!". Funny, I still have no trouble at all telling Hustler from Scientific American at the corner newsstand.

Also, remember that being "accepted" by everyone is not the quite the same thing as being "admired" by everyone.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 29 Sep 2003 5:26 pm

Bless you Donny.

Rich Paton · Post by **Rich Paton** » 30 Sep 2003 2:47 am

While Tuxedo talk is all the rage...in 1996 at a local music festival, where Sunday is "Gospel Music Day", I had the pleasure of seeing the Fairmont Four perform. They are (at the time there were FIVE in the Fairmont Four) black, fabulously talented singers whose music is a religous experience in itself. The ages of these cats ranges over four generaions, the eldest at the time being over 80 yeard young.
To celebrate their humble beginnings as well as the need for classy stage wear, they are garbed in very nice looking, unique custom tuxes which incorporate denim bib overalls. The effect is pleasing and appropriate.
I flew from Memphis to L.A. in July of '71, dressed in Class A military uniform. I lucked out in bagging a first-class seat on military standby ($49.00). A few rows back sat none other than Tennesee Ernie Ford.
What I remember most about this gentleman was not only his friendly and unegotistic demeanor and million dollar smile, was...his clothes. He wore no tie, but had fine shoes, slacks and a beautiful jacket. He was the Anti-Slob!
I attended a past performers' show at a club which was closing down. I was not aware of the event, but a friend from another group who had played there happened to drop by om the way, at the owner's behest, to round up stragglers.
On the way out the door I grabbed my Pendleton sport coat, gray wool tweed with gray swede elbow trim, etc.
I could have also used a baseball bat (if you get my drift) that night.
I don't much care how anyone else dresses, though, as I don't have to look at them. [This message was edited by Rich Paton on 30 September 2003 at 03:48 AM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 30 Sep 2003 6:31 am

As a young man in 1971, some friends and I decided to go out to a nice fancy restaurant. They wouldn't let us in because we were not wearing ties! We actually looked pretty good - nice slacks with collars on our shirts. They had rules. Standards.

Times change.

So do rules, standards, and attitudes and the definition of what is slovenly or a slob or how important that is. Being clean is my only requirement.

I personally try to dress appropriate for the event or for the situation. I actually worry that I may not be dressed appropriately! What I don't do is judge others who may appear to be inappropriate. It just doesn't bother me and it is not important to me. I used to attend a church in New Mexico and I would sometimes put on a tie. Those sitting next ot me would be wearning jeans and a t-shirt! Still other would being wearing a suit!

Ah, the old generation gap thing! I remember it well. I have learned that it is easier to understand the older generation than it is to understand the younger generation. I understand my parents generation more that I understand my daughters generation. It takes more work. I think this is true for most of us.

What is and what isn't country music. (Garth Brooks vs. George Jones)

What is a country star supposed to look like. (Porter Wagoner vs. Alan Jackson)

What instruments belong in a country song. (fiddles and steel vs. loud guitar and in-your-face drums).

Should a country artist be conservative and reserved or outspoken and provocative. (Loretta Lynn vs. Dixie Chicks)

Generation gap..
..and the beat goes on...

Bless you Donny and you too Carl!

Terry

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 30 Sep 2003 10:25 am

Playboy ran a cartoon on this. A man and a woman are at the entrance to a restaurant. The neckline of her dress is cut so low that her pubic hair shows. He wears a nice suit and an open collar shirt. The caption:"I'm sorry, sir; we can't admit you without a necktie."

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 1 Oct 2003 7:26 am

I loved the outfits Ernest Tubb's players used to wear. Each with their identically tailored cowboy hat brims going straight up; and those perfectly creased and matching trousers; along with those beautiful matching shirts and kerchiefs. Same for Buck Owen's band and many others. To me it was real class and sent a good, wholesome and decent message to the audience.

As Elvis' rebellion for anything proper, decent or moral sat in; and begin to spread faster than a patient dying with cancer, all this changed. Now it is typical to see the world's greatest singers, stand up in front of a mic with worn out tennis shoes; a pony tail for what reason I have no idea; an Aunt Jemima bandana that is as out of place as a pregnant sow at a presidential inauguration; a raunchy and umkempt beard; along with a sleeveless shirt as though he was in competition for "Mr whatevah", and looks like he has not had a bath in a month, etc, etc.

Does he have the right to do this? Absolutely. I would defend with my life his right to do it.

Should he do it?

NO. A thousand time no. There is a difference in having the right to do something and the proper place for one to excercise that right. There is a place for everything in life. And singing in front of a mic to an audience is NO place to look like a hoboe, NO matter how good a singer he is. Or how much money he makes; or how many don't care. It is still garbage. It is still "cesspool" thinking. It sets us back to primitive attire when they did not have better.

He is a disgrace and a shameful spectacle to mankind; and he should apologize to everyone for his rebellious attire and his rebellious attitude. And this goes for the entire lot who insist on destroying every facet of what is decent and proper in this world.

Decency, and proper attire is JUST as important as it is NOT to defacate in the middle of a shopping mall. There is a proper place for good and wholesomeness; and there this is a proper place for garbage and cesspools.

Flame if you will. I won't debate it. This is my opinion and I stand on it. May God have mercy on us for turning our backs on what is good and proper, instead of choosing or worse yet; condoning what is bad,

carl