BIAB users, A Question

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 14 Apr 2002 5:03 pm

Have I overlooked something in the Tutorials, or is it NOT possible to have chords played on the upbeat. ie: The chromatic walkdown from 4 to 2 in "Misery and Gin" Thanks much. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 14 Apr 2002 5:40 pm

I'm using BIAB version 9, which is a couple of years old, but to program "upbeats", you first enter the chords, and then right click on the mouse and choose "Push by 1/8" and check off the proper beat to push. (you can also choose the type of rest... a shot, hold chord, etc.) It takes a little bit of experimenting. For example, if you want to accent the "and" after beat 2, you enter the chord on beat 3 and then "push by 1/8" beat 3. You'd need to enter the chords on both beats 2 and 3 in order for it to work right in that example. Best of luck.

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My Site | Doug's Free Tab

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 14 Apr 2002 5:41 pm

Jimmy, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by the upbeat, but I know you can put up to 4 chords per bar, and you can specify what root you put under them. To put more than one chord inside a half measure (one field) you seperate them with commas. For a root different than the chord, place the root under a slash /
For instance, for a walkdown from IV - II
in the key of C, you could write:
(first field) F,F/E
(second field) F/Eb,D7
Hope this helps.
-John

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 14 Apr 2002 5:57 pm

Jimmy, I just emailed you a BIAB file that I think has the accents you're looking for.

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My Site | Doug's Free Tab

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 14 Apr 2002 7:29 pm

I sure do appreciate you guys. Doug, I got the file but, it came to me in "mime" version, and I don't know how to open it. This has happened before. Very frustrating.
John, I'll try to explain. In the song "Crazy", key of C. While the singer sings "Crazy", the band walks down to the A chord. On the original record I think it went C, Bb, A. I'm sure you have heard some bands walk it down chromaticlly, C,B,Bb,A.
You have to get more than four chords in a bar to do that. It all happens before the singer says Crazy the second time. It's getting late, and I'm probably going in to my "stupid mode".
Doug, if you don't mind send that file to me on my other address and I'll see if I can open it there. steelmanjim@earthlink.net
Thanks again fellers. Jim I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 14 Apr 2002 8:24 pm

Jim, I just sent the file to your other email address. Hopefully it will open up for you.

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My Site | Doug's Free Tab

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 14 Apr 2002 9:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
You have to get more than four chords in a bar to do that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do ? hmmmmm

-John

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 16 Apr 2002 5:12 pm

maybe as a triplet??? on 3rd & 4th beat of the measure w/A7 on beat 1 in the next. Can we feel that, John?[This message was edited by Doug Seymour on 16 April 2002 at 06:15 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Apr 2002 6:44 pm

I was wondering about triplets too. The BIAB Help refers to (drum) triplets, but I think BIAB allows no more than 1 chord per beat.

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My Site | Doug's Free Tab

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 16 Apr 2002 7:39 pm

I guess I should have said, you have to be ABLE to get more than 4 chords in a bar To do that. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'
[This message was edited by Jimmy Dale on 16 April 2002 at 08:42 PM.]

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 17 Apr 2002 10:42 am

That "Misery & Gin" phrase we're talkin' about is a triplet on beat 4 of the third measure of the verse. (similar to the loungy version of "Crazy"

) BIAB doesn't have triplet pushes as of yet...only 8's & 16's. (On my version 8 that is?)

I'll have to do some experimenting, but I bet there is a way to do it by changing bar 3 into 2 measures of 3/4. The first one at the regular tempo and the second (now bar 4) at a little less than 3x'x the original tempo. Then you'd have to reset the next bar back to 4/4 at the original tempo. You can do this by hitting the F5 key on the bars you wanna change. Good luck.

Jimmy Dale · Post by **Jimmy Dale** » 17 Apr 2002 11:25 am

Rick, I'm working with Version 10 and it don't do it either. What you're saying is worth looking in to and experimenting with.Thanks, Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Apr 2002 11:28 am

Sometimes the chord change doesn't fall exactly on the beat and as of yet I haven't been able to find a way to handle it with BIAB. I have version 11 but I usually forget to read the new manuals so maybe it's my fault

Uff-Da!

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 17 Apr 2002 3:03 pm

You could import it into Cakewalk if you have that, and then you can put chords or notes wherever you wanted. You could then burn it to CD.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 21 Apr 2002 11:49 am

I too, have version 11. I've never been more
confused. I started with BIAB back with the version 7's and from day one found it a not easy music formatt. I was 'using' it OK, but always felt I was never realizing it's full potential.
Right off the git-go it seemed the tutorials
were not in depth enuff. BIAB assumes, I think, that you have at least a bachelor's degree in music theory, and a minimum in jazz playing. For instance, what we in the country, rock genre refer to as 'chorus' is much different than what BIAB means by it.
So if you don't fully grasp their concept of it, it can throw you off in the middle of doing something, as you [well, I do anyway]
drift back to your old concept of 'chorus'.

And with every newer BIAB version, instead of maybe making existing things clearer, it just amplifies already what are a daunting set of options and tasks. I suppose I should take a music writing course. I figured BIAB could guide you a little better along the way.

FWIW...ChipsAhoy

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 21 April 2002 at 12:52 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Apr 2002 5:13 pm

I've never used these types of programs, so I guess I'm surprised you can't just "drag-and-drop" a chord or a note anywhere you want them, since it's on a computer. I guess the term "user freindly" isn't in their programmer's lexicon.

I was also surprised the same way when I bought my Kawai "Session Trainer" (which does about the same thing as BIAB). They really succeeded in making that thing a royal pain in the ass to program!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Apr 2002 10:10 pm

I understand that the latest version of "Finale" notation software is bundled with BIAB. That should be an amazing program.
www.codamusic.com/coda/

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 21 April 2002 at 11:51 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 22 Apr 2002 11:42 am

You can't just simply put any old note on BIAB's staff, without BIAB changing it. Especially when you start to add just another note or two or three. BIAB is trying to figure as close as it can what kind of RHYTHMIC pattern you are setting, even at this early point, when maybe, at this point you're not even sure what the tempo is gonna be, or even what the melody will be.

You are trying to play around; but I think BIAB thinks that you already know what you are doing and then tries to correct what you are doing as it anticipates what it thinks you are shooting for, or what it feels is the proper way the melody should be notated.

This is only one frustrating example.

BIAB just won't leave you alone when you start to create a melody on their staff. So they add notes onto what you are doing, and you try to take them off and go back to what you had in mind, but sooner or later BIAB butts in again.

FWIW

Pete Grant · Post by **Pete Grant** » 22 Apr 2002 1:54 pm

BIAB was built by jazz guys. Just listen to how cool the Jazz and Blues grooves and how gawd-awful the Country and Bluegrass ones are.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 23 Apr 2002 5:54 am

If you know your way around a sequencer and can dump from BIAB to a MIDI file, you can move any of the notes on any of the tracks around at will. (or delete or add or whatever)

Cakewalk or PowerTracks or any of the software sequencers (another word for 'midi editor') can do the job. Like most things, it's easy if you know how.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 24 Apr 2002 8:16 am

This is a little off-thread, but I think the secret with BIAB in reference to country music is to take their styles, enter into the stylemaker window and start deleting all of the extraneous patterns that they have introduced into it. Another approach is to start from scratch and create your own grooves with a simplistic approach. Pete's right, BIAB is designed by Peter and Oliver Gannon, two Canadian jazzers but I believe the program is quite all-encompassing. I sure don't want to be messing with a sequencer going click, click, entering every single bass drum note onto a sequence. Once the styles are tweaked, it works quite flawlessly, although the program does suffer from feature-bloat.