Billy Gray Information

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 21 Dec 2001 10:54 am

Could some of you share more info on Billy Gray? Being a big Hank Thompson fan, I am interested. I have been told that he was actually responsible for developing the Hank Thompson "sound".

Thanks,
Bill

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Carter D-10 8+9, BCT, TPPP

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 21 Dec 2001 12:10 pm

Didn't he play Bud on "Father Knows Best"?

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 21 Dec 2001 1:21 pm

billy shaped the sound and repetoire of all he was associated with.I heard he has passed on. The last time I saw him was when Johnny Rodrigues was hot and touring. Billy fronted the band and we were the house band at the Bluestem in Pidcoke tx. We were on first and the band used our equip for their show. Al Talley was on steel, billy played rhythem, Leon Rausch played bass and sang. I can't remember the others.

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 21 Dec 2001 8:51 pm

Billy Gray was also band leader for Ray Price in the late 60's. Jody.

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 22 Dec 2001 9:08 am

Well.... what about Lauren Chapin and Eleanor Donahue?

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 22 Dec 2001 4:10 pm

Billy Gray
Born Dec 29, 1924 in Paris, TX
Died Mar 27, 1975
Singer/songwriter/guitarist Billy Gray only had one chart hit, but headed a popular Western swing band for years. He was born near Paris, Texas to a poor family. The 15-year-old Gray picked cotton to earn money for his first guitar, which he purchased from a pawn shop; the following year,
he debuted on a local radio station. He organized his first band when he was 19 and had his own radio show in Paris in 1943, which was popular for the next three years. After teaming with ex-Louisiana Governor James E. Knoe to tour the state, he and his band also toured the Southwest before he settled in Dallas .
In the Dallas area he worked with Bob Manning And His Riders Of The Silver Sage, a group that over a couple of years included Robert Lawrence 'Blackie' Crawford, and Pee Wee Reid (bass), who went on to work with Lefty Frizzell and the Western Cherokees.
Billy Gray was their vocalist on various 1949 singles they recorded for Jim Beck's Dude label in Texas.

He then went on to spend a few years leading Hank Thompson's Brazos Valley Boys. He
and Thompson eventually founded the Texoma Music Publishing Company and the Brazos Valley Publishing Company, and the two co-wrote some of Thompson's greatest hits, including "Waiting in the Lobby of Your Heart," "The New Wears Off Too Fast" and "A Fool, A Faker."
Gray originally split to form his own group, while he also cut some duet singles with a young Wanda Jackson (who had already sung with Merl Lindsay's group in OK). In 1954, Gray had his lone hit, "You Can't Have My Love," a duet with Wanda Jackson. The
following year, he and his band the Western Oakies released 'Dance-O-Rama' album as part of Decca's Western Swing series, but found little chart success at this point.
Like many, he found the large band format too expensive to tour without the benefit of some decent chart singles, so he returned to Hank Thompson and the Brazos Valley Boys.
Sometime in the 1960s it's been reported that Gray went on to work as a sideman for other bands, including the Nuggets and
the Cowtowners, also appearing on the syndicated TV show Music Country Style. I think Herb Steiner has mentioned seeing footage from this show, 1964 vintage I believe.

Around the mid 1960s he had teamed up with Dewey Groom and the Longhorn Ballroom crowd in Dallas, he recorded an album 'Billy Gray' for Dewey's Longhorn Records, but it produced no hits. One would assume that it recorded with Grooms' band of the time with Bobby Garrett, etc.

From what C.C. writes, I'd say he'd seen Gray live around the 1972-1975 period.
While Jody Sanders has an interesting point too, I have also heard that Billy Gray was the bandleader for Price for a time in the 1960s. As I understand it he was the leader before Blondie, now... some people say Blondie started with Ray in 1967, others say 1969..so I can't say when for sure.

What did Gray bring to Hank's sound, well he was a little more experienced with a band format than Thompson and had apparently toured more extensively. He also brought in material as a writer and musician, so I feel he was an important part of the early sound, but of course Lefty Nason did just as much to shape the early Brazos Valley Boys. IMHO of course...

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The future ain't what it used to be

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 22 Dec 2001 9:35 pm

jason:

what is the evidence of a longhorn LP by gray? the only longhorn LPs i am aware of are by wills, phil baugh, curtis leach, dewey groom, and vern stovall/janet mcbride.

he did record a couple of singles for the label, but i never heard any allegations of an album. all in all, he made over a dozen singles over more than 20 years. he did have an LP on the celebrated artist label.

he also appeared in a 1949 astor film short called "talented tramps", wherein he does a number with blackie crawford. blackie uses another name that i cannot recall right now--larry something i think.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 23 Dec 2001 7:10 am

Hi Mitch, yeah I should have written that it was rumoured that he cut an LP for Longhorn.
I have seen a couple of references, mainly in old reference books, say 1970s vintage, and I think the AMG website mentions it as well. I might add that I have read in one book that Leon Rausch had a couple of late 1960s albums on the Longhorn label, yet I have found nothing ever to back that up.

Albums that definately exist.

Bob Wills - Keepsake Album #1 (LP-001) 1965
Phil Baugh & Vern Stoval - Country Guitar (LP-00?) 1965
Curtis Leach - Indescribable (LP 003) 1965
Dewey Groom & The Texas Longhorns - Last Of The Big Bands (LP 004) 1965
Vern Stovall's and Janet McBride - Country Dozen (LPM 005)

It's also interesting to note that a Wills Longhorn discography that I have seen mentions a LP 007 release, not any of the material from the Keepsake album, but earlier sides recorded with the Texas Playboys. Stuff like 'Sooner Or Later (You'll Fall), 'Buffalo Twist,' 'All Night Long' and 'You Can't Break A Heart,' which also appeared on Longhorn singles in 1964.
My guess is that they were scheduled for a Longhorn various artists sampler type LP which may have never been issued.

Perhaps the so-called Gray Longhorn LP is actually the celebrated artist label set you mention?

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 25 Dec 2001 9:10 am

When I went to work for Ray Price in 1967, Billy Gray was the front man and played guitar. He was living in Dallas at the time.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 25 Dec 2001 11:51 pm

Hi Junior, I've been wanting to ask you about the Cherokee Cowboys for ages, thanks for clearing that up. Billy was definately with Ray. Cool.

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 26 Dec 2001 6:13 am

I guess I stand corrected. Our fiddle player at the time of the aforementioned rodrigues gig, states that the steelman was Buddy Rable?{sp} not Al Talley. I still think it was Al as Buddy was not fat enough at that time.My wife tells me it was Hrable not Rable. I'm signing off before I get killed. CC

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 26 Dec 2001 7:45 am

It's Buddie Hrabal!

He lurks on here once in a while but seldom posts. I'll send him a link to this post and maybe he'll reply.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 26 Dec 2001 8:50 am

And Buddy is a motorcycle cop, CC, so you better get that tail light fixed!

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 27 Dec 2001 9:09 am

more info on the rodrigues gig. Tanya Tucker had "Delta Dawn" going strong. I brlieve she was 14 and she opened for Rodrigues. Her lyyle brother was there too and he sang a couple of songs. Sais he would be glad to get home as Texans talked funny. Thanks Herb, for the warning about Buddy. My daughter and family live in Benbrook adjacent to Ft Worth and we visit quite often so I'll gat that tail light fixed. CC

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 28 Dec 2001 6:39 am

Guys, I know this might be a little off -topic, but does anybody know what ever happened to Bill Carson? He also once worked for Hank Thompson. Just wondering.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 28 Dec 2001 5:54 pm

Larry Miller, sorry I didn't notice your post before. There is a Billy Gray who worked as a professional actor, definately a different guy to the one mentioned here.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 28 Dec 2001 6:33 pm

Jason, I was just injecting a little humor.

Your complete and thorough knowledge of Music history amazes me. We should all be thankful to have someone like you to seek out, and document the history of music. Is a book in the future Jason? I want one if ever you decide to publish one. A big Coffee table book with plenty of pictures would be nice!! By the way, the actor Billy Gray was also in "The Day The Earth Stood Still" 1952.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 30 Dec 2001 7:30 am

Yeah, I love that film.
A book is currently being painstakingly pieced together, the pics might make it way too pricey though.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 30 Dec 2001 11:33 pm

Graig, Billy Carson is definately off topic here. After leaving Hank Thompson, he joined Billy Gray's band and stayed with him until the band broke up. He had been working part time for Leo Fender for all this time and after Gray's band he went on to work full time for Fender company. He wrote a book "My Years With Fender", it's pretty interesting.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 30 Dec 2001 11:35 pm

Oops, I meant to say Billy Carson is "NOT" off topic here!!

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 31 Dec 2001 7:24 am

Thanks Jussi, I understood the first post. My fingers slip once in awhile too.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 2 Jan 2002 11:15 pm

Billy gray was also the band leader with Ray Price the first time I worked with him.(Ray)The great thing about this job in 1969 was that Bobby Davis was on lead guitar, Jimmy Belkins was on lead fiddle (8 fiddle players)and Ralph Counts was on rhy.guitar,(nephew of the legendary, Merle Counts) Tommy Stasco on Bass, we had a full horn section, wow! I loved it, but there was hardly any money to go around, we got $45.00 a day. The road! I decided I could live a lot better without it! Billy Gray was the greatest , most wonderful person to get along with that I ever had the pleasure of working with. But the road was awful.
Bobbe Seymour

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 2 Jan 2002 11:18 pm

Jason Odd, you are awsome ! ! !
How do you know all this stuff? I was there and I can't remember as much as you do!

Bobbe, (the ex history guy)

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 3 Jan 2002 5:16 pm

Hiya Bobbe, I'm over in my hours this month so I'm mainly staying offline until the new hours kick in on the sixth, so this is a quick one.

I think I know a lot, then I run across guys like Colin Escott, Kevin Coffey, Steve Wisner and others and man, they kill me on this sort of stuff. Not to mention Mitch and some of the forumites.
I do have a bit of a soft spot of pickers and a strong fascination for road bands.
I've been meaning to email you again Bobbe, wanted to ask you about your Texas days when you wuz a youngin'...will get to you soon via email, very soon.

By the way, in December '69 Dale Bennett and Phil Baugh were fired into Ray's band, a couple of SoCal pickers who never came back after that. Dale told me that Jimmy Belkin, Blondie and Julian tharpe were in the group when they joined. Sounds like Julian came in after you Bobbe!

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 4 Jan 2002 11:26 am

Mr. Odd,Yes, after and before.I worked with Price Four seperate times, I loved self abuse. Worse job I ever worked. Farron and Paycheck were the greatest jobs, However, Connie Smith,Lynn Anderson,Billy Walker,Stonewall,were O.K. also. Jim and Jessie? These are the greatest guy's in the biz. A lot of good guys, some horrible. Johnny Rivers? Good Lord,don't ask! I worked with a few old rockers on bass also,they were fun but wore me out! Want some great history? Ask some of these guy's that were around longer than me. Buddy,Don Helms,Weldon,(he has some great stuff!)Hal,
Etc.