Circle of 5ths

Larry R · Post by **Larry R** » 16 Oct 2000 10:24 am

What is the circle of 5ths?
How is it formulated? (the first answer may
clear up the 2nd question)
How is it used? (This also may be answered
on the first ? ).

A short paragraph is sufficient rather than a 2 page dissertation.

Thank you.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Oct 2000 10:38 am

A fifth is the interval between C and G, seven frets or half-steps.

The circle of fifths is the progression of keys or chords based on that interval. It goes like this:

C G D A E B Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C

Hope that helps.

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Robert · Post by **Robert** » 16 Oct 2000 3:50 pm

Larry -
A good SELF-instruction (read: move at your pace) book to get - "Practical Theory Complete: A Self-Instruction Music Theory Course" by Sandy Feldstein, Alfred Publishing. $9.95 when I bought it. Chapters 36, 37, 38 deal with the circle of fifths. I don't know how old you are - whether you remember "Think and Do" books, that is, but that's what this book is like - write in it with a pencil, do little exercises, take little quizzes - answers in the back of book. I don't think anybody will be able to answer all of your questions THIS way without getting into a two-page dissertation. I'm not trying to put you off, but hoping to make your life easier. Of course, the other good thing about the book is that when you FORGET you can just dust off the book . . .

Rob

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 16 Oct 2000 4:33 pm

One practical use of the circle of fifths would be a modulation.
A portion of that would be in the key of D and modulate to E.
So you would go to the 5th of D(A)>then the 5th of A(E)>than the 5th of E(B)>than you are at the 5th chord of the new Key which is now E.
Sounds fun don't it

Ricky

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 16 Oct 2000 6:09 pm

"Nobody Loves You When You're Down and Out"

john

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Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 16 Oct 2000 6:46 pm

Larry-
b0b gave you the short version you wanted.

The circle of fifths are very important to know in music. Even if you don't know the song. Lots of times it works to know them.

A good example, I got a tape of Julian Tharpe playing "Here's that Rainy Day".

And in one part he goes right around the circle of fifths on a bar 7th chord, for a turn around.

Wherever you start it jumps 5 frets at a time.
Hope you get some insight out of this....al

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 16 Oct 2000 7:42 pm

A lot of songs go "backwards" through the circle of fifths, as Al described. It's more like a circle of fourths the way it's played in most popular music. The seventh of each chord will lead you to the next chord on the circle.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Oct 2000 9:16 pm

Larry,

It helps to visualize the circle of 5ths, so click here

If you move clockwise, each letter name is five steps up the major scale from the previous chord. Moving counterclockwise the circle moves in fourths, as b0b said.

It's handy for Transposing. If a song has the chords C, Am, G, and you want to transpose it to G... just move all of chords clockwise one notch. So C, Am, G becomes G, Em, D.

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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Oct 2000 8:34 am

Actually, the picture in that link has the fourths clockwise, and the fifths counter-clockwise.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 18 Oct 2000 8:28 am

oops....

Thanks Bobby.

Who reversed that circle! No wonder my chords sound so back-@ssward.

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Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 18 Oct 2000 8:50 am

What difference would it make if they are backwards?Ray

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Alan Shank · Post by **Alan Shank** » 18 Oct 2000 4:03 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
What difference would it make if they are backwards
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The effect would be very different. If you go one way, each chord is the dominant of the one that follows, so you get a continuous "dominant-to-tonic" effect, a "strong" chord change that yields "finality" or "resolution". For example, play:
G B E A D G
You start in G, then "jump back" 4 steps around the circle and come back to G. Each change after the first is a V-I. (B is V to E, E is V to A, etc.)
OTOH, try playing G, then D, then A, then E. Each change is like a I-V and has a very different sound.

It's amazing how much of music is based on some form of dominant harmony!
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Rich Paton · Post by **Rich Paton** » 21 Oct 2000 12:46 pm

Modulating a tune through the cycle (not circle) of fifths, effecting the modulation when each (32 bar chorus, for example...) repeats is also an effective method of getting a harmonica player who is "sitting in" with your band off the stage, when he crosses that fine line into over-doing it...we've only had one harp player ever make it through more than one modulation. But he's also an accomplished, non-overplaying jazz player on his instrument and a cool dude, so he is always welcome.
Cycle modulation used to be common in pop tunes, and makes a song interesting via harmonic variation and tension/resolution. Bobby Hebb's "Sunny" is one (of many) example of this.

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 21 Oct 2000 1:36 pm

I'm glad i leaned this thery as part of piano lessons.

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Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 21 Oct 2000 5:50 pm

Circle of fourths changes were common in pop tunes of the "tin pan alley" era... about 1900 to 1930. Two such songs that come to mind are Sweet Georgia Brown and Five Foot Two.

It's fun solo over fourth changes, playing the mixolydian mode for each 7th chord.

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