Do you ever think "modes" when soloing?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 11 Oct 2000 10:25 pm

While preparing for an upcoming recording session I have again been reminded of how important "modal" playing can be.

One of the songs is in the key of D and it's basically a I7, II7, IV7, V7 chord progression. The changes are blazing fast and I get a 16 bar solo. My first thought is to play speedpicking patterns built on the D major scale. They fit, but they sound too "sweet". The song's dominant 7th chords cry out for a D mixolydian solo. In the mixolydian mode the dominant 7th sound is right there... because mixolydian just a major scale with a flatted 7th.

Taking the next step... D mixolydian is the G major scale (starting on the D note). So those neat speedlicks that lay out pretty easily in G major will sound great as dominant 7th patterns over the D7, and the other 7th chords in the key of D.

Does anyone else ever think like this when soloing over 7th's?

How about soloing in the Dorian mode over minor keys? Dorian is just a normal minor scale with the 6th tone raised and it has a nice jazz/rock feel. And it has a corresponding major scale. "A" dorian is the G major scale (starting on the second note). So if a song is in the key of Am... you just blast away in G major and you'll sound like Carlos Santana playing pedal steel guitar!

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www.dougbsteel.com
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 11 October 2000 at 11:34 PM.]

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 11 Oct 2000 10:39 pm

How about using a blues scale and just thinking one conscious? As for me, whenever I try to think in a modal pattern, I sound too contrived and lack melody.Maybe there are times that I am using a mode and just don't know it.In any case, all the best of luck with your endevours.-Andy

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 12 Oct 2000 10:03 am

Yes, the "blues" scale would work too, but that is a minor based scale (pentatonic minor with the flatted 5th tone), whereas the mixolydian mode is based on the major scale with the dominant 7th tone. The sounds of the two scales are quite different and the "moods" created are different. Mixolydian is more jazz-like, in my opinion. It contains more notes than the pentatonic scale, and it has a very full sound when played over 7th chords.

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www.dougbsteel.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Oct 2000 1:39 pm

Doug, since I'm not good at technical "notes and things", I don't think about using "modes" in my solos.

But, sometimes, when playing at parties, I do think of "pie ala modes". (LOL!)

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 12 Oct 2000 2:03 pm

If I have the time to think in advance.
(1)I sure would consider mixolydian for the whole thing.
(2)D major-scale for the I, IV and V and lydian w/b7 for the II
(3)compare all chords for common notes/chromatic moving lines

If I don,t have time to think I would probably play B-minor pentatonic w/b5 for the whole thing (Bm-pentatonic = Dmajor pentatonic)

Here is two ideas. All 16th notes. The first one is based on common notes/chromatic moving lines.
The second one is a lot of chromatic notes.

Don't know what tempo "blazing fast" is, but I think they can be played pretty fast.

<pre>
Idea(1)
D7 E7
1)------------------------------------------------------
2)------------------------------------------------------
3)------------------------------------------------------
4)------------------------------------------------------
5)---5A-------5A~5-----------5a-------5a~5--------------
6)---------5B----------5B----------5B----------5B-------
7)------------------------------------------------------

------5-----------------------5L----------------------
9)------------------------------------------------------
10)------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

G7 A7
1)------------------------------------------------------
2)------------------------------------------------------
3)------------------------------------------------------
4)------------------------------------------------------
5)---6--------6~~5-----------5a-------5a~5-----4A-------
6)---------6-----------5B----------5--------------------
7)------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------
9)------6L----------------------5-----------------------
10)------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(a=Half-step raise . . . = 16th notes)

Idea(2)
D7 E7
1)---------------------3R~3-----3~~3R-------6R~6--------
2)------1-----------------------------------------------
3)---------------1~~3-----------------3~~6--------------
4)---------1~~1R-------------3R-------------------6R----
5)---1A-------------------------------------------------
6)------------------------------------------------------
7)------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------
9)------------------------------------------------------
10)------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

G7 A7
1)---------------------8R~8-----------------------------
2)------6--------------------------8-----8--------------
3)---------------6~~8-----------------------------------
4)---------6~~6R-------------8R~8-----------------------
5)---6A-------------------------------8A----8A----------
6)---------------------------------------------8B~8-----
7)---------------------------------------------------8--

------------------------------------------------------
9)------------------------------------------------------
10)------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(R=Half-step raise)
</pre>

I really like the last one.
Let me know what you think.

Bengt

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 12 Oct 2000 6:59 pm

Thanks Bengt,

I like your ideas. I'm thinking that a speedpicking pattern using the G major scale would work well over all of the chords. Something like this:

<pre>
1)-------------------------------------------
2)-------------------------------------------
3)-------------------------------------------
4)-------------------------------------------
5)---12---------10---------------8~7---------
6)------12B~10B----10B~10------8-----7B~5B---
7)------------------------10~8---------------

-------------------------------------------
9)-------------------------------------------
10)------------------------------------------
</pre>

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www.dougbsteel.com

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 13 Oct 2000 10:38 am

That would be possible to play fast

The G-major scale can give the II and V chord a minor sound. But that can sound cool too. If it sounds good I don't necessary care if theory says it is wrong.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 13 Oct 2000 1:22 pm

Yes, over the II chord it sounds like a minor riff, but that's okay... blues and rock solos are minor over major anyway. The song is a fast "Bluegrass" style, at a tempo of about 140 or more:

D7 E7 A7 (D7 G) (D7 G) (D7 C7) D7 A7
D7 E7 A7 (D7 G) (D7 G) (D7 C7) D7 A7
(D7 A7) (D7 A7) (D7 G) D7
A7 (D7 G) (D7 G) (D7 C7) D A7

Each chord shown above is one measure and the ones in parenthesis are split bars (2 beats each chord). The key is D, but if you play speedpicking runs in G major over all of them, it sounds really neat because the G major scale is the same as the D major scale with the dominant 7th note included (C).

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www.dougbsteel.com
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 13 October 2000 at 02:26 PM.]

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 13 Oct 2000 1:54 pm

Doug, Bengt

Nice thread. I've just begun to play/think in modes, and find it very useful.

Batting a chord structure + key around like you've done stretches the thinking in a very nice way.

Thanks, Bob